Keeley: How would I clean when a porn gets dirty? What should I use to build stills that are

Sidney: where bird

Keeley: explain like I'm 30.

Sidney: Hey everyone. Welcome to explain like I'm 30, I'm your host, Sydnee Raskind, a k a, Sydnee, Raz, all over the internet, the life hack guy, the guy telling you things you wish you knew before you were in your thirties. Thank you so much for listening. Um, today on the show we have Keely, sh a Professional cuddler.

That is right. You heard that right? A professional cuddler. But before we get into that, I need to talk to you about a new thing that I'm trying, and it's called Working Out. I don't know if anyone's ever tried this before, but every single day I, well, five times a week does relax me five times a week I have to exercise and 30 minutes a day, just go for it.

And let me tell you, it is not as easy as it sounds. I don't know if anyone ever knew this or anyone ever talks about this, but exercising feels bad sometimes and it's not fun. And um, I've been doing it for a while and I don't. Know if I'm getting as jacked as I want to be, but it, people keep saying, keep doing it and you'll feel better about yourself.

I cut back on drinking a little bit, so I guess that's good too. As much as I hate to say it, drinking's bad for you, so I. Do things that are nice for yourself and exercise, maybe cut back on something that you know is bad for you. I'm not gonna tell you what to do. I am gonna tell you that you can feel good about yourself if you cuddle, and that goes into exactly.

Who our guest is today? Keely Shup, professional Cuddler, cuddle Therapist, boundaries and Consent Educator. C e o of Cuddle List. That's right. Cuddle List. She has a shirt that says Cuddle List on it. It's fantastic. And the president of the board of Directors for Cuddle Party. We talked about so many amazing things.

We talked about what goes into the life of being a cuddler. What goes into. Asking someone to come over or to virtually cuddle, right? Like that's a thing that you can do. The the barriers that you break down, the vulnerability that goes into it. I mean, so many, so many, so many beautiful, amazing things. I just got done talking with her and I gotta tell you, I feel really good.

I feel really happy. I feel nice and relaxed, and also just like. Proud of myself for some reason. So let's just get to do it. Uh, I'm really excited for y'all to listen to this episode. We have so many more amazing guests coming on this show. Professional Cuddler, Keely Shup. Enjoy

Keely. I wanted to let you know that you are my first podcast guest ever. And I had to tell, tell you one, you're doing great already. Well, thank you so much. I have to tell you that your background is truly fantastic. It is the most beautiful like cuddly atmosphere I have ever seen.

Keeley: And I'm wondering it's brand appropriate, is what you're saying.

Sidney: It's very brand appropriate. I'm wondering if like, so when you, cause you know I looked online and I was wondering like, are you, since you take so many clients over, Like video online, this is the first thing that they see and this is the first thing that you like want them to see so that they know that you are cuddly.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Keeley: It so like, environment sets a really important tone, whether it's in person or virtual. Yeah.

Sidney: That's absolutely incredible. I'm so excited that like I get to ask you these questions. This is one of those things that I'm so excited about this podcast because, um, I basically am really just trying to understand the ins and outs of.

People that do things that, like I've never even heard of and I've never even thought about, like, to be a professional cuddler is incredible.

Keeley: Like, thank you. I, I agree.

Sidney: I mean, all right. Well let's, let's get into it. I know we may have been keeping this in a little bit, but Keely Shoop, everybody like, thank you for being with us.

Like so you are a professional cuddler.

Keeley: Yes, I am a cuddle therapist. Mm-hmm.

Sidney: A, a cuddle therapist. And again, I was, I was looking online before this interview, and there are a lot of certifications that go into it. There's a lot of training and hours that go into it. People have over 4,000 hours of cuddling professionally.

I mean mm-hmm. Is that in real life or is that just, is that over, like, do you have to practice like with your stuffed. You know, friends behind you first and prove that you have certain cuddling techniques or like, what is 4,000 hours of cuddling, please?

Keeley: What is that? I, well, to give you a picture, uh, that doesn't seem like too, too much because I've been doing this for over seven years.

Wow. And so just for one, um, I, I wanna rewind a tiny bit because you mentioned there's all kinds of certifications that go into it. And one of the beautiful things about this industry, um, and it's a thing to be mindful of as well, is that all of the certifications are elective. Sure. And so whenever someone is, and there's some industry distinction a little bit between professional cuddler and cuddle therapists typically just approaches.

Right. Um, and degree of training as well. But, um, It, it's really customizable to not only the clients if they're looking for specific kinds of care or kinds of support or just, uh, specific kind of experience. And for the practitioner, if a practitioner is really interested in a certain, um, path of education, they really are empowered to take it.

So there's all kinds of certifications. I just hoard them. Personally, I hoarded certifications cuz I love it. So you'll definitely see a lot on my phone. Cool. Yeah,

Sidney: I mean, you know, it was so amazing when we actually got to talk to you and, and you know, got in. Into this, like, oh my God, we're gonna interview a professional cuddle learner and mm-hmm.

And you keep on saying cuddle therapist and you keep on saying, um, cuddle blank. Now, what do you prefer as an industry standard job to be called like, cuz I don't want to call you like Cuddle Master or like the cuddle list. Sounds awesome. I just wanna sure that I say right. It does.

Keeley: Okay. D All of the above.

I,

Sidney: yeah, I don't think the cu the, the, the most cuddly person I've ever talked to. Great.

Keeley: Done. Check. I'm into it. I don't, I will not be offended by any of the options that you presented. Um, perfect. They have different connotations in my experience. But this, you mentioned this industry is kind of new. It's unfamiliar.

For sure. Yeah. And so, um, the being a very stickler on language when people are so uncertain about the language anyway, seems a little futile. So

Sidney: I don't really care. Yeah, I mean, it, it makes sense because I feel like you wouldn't be able to be, uh, cuddler if you weren't cuddly. So you, that kind of like allows people to say things and like, just like do, I don't know, not do things, but like, um, you have to create a safe environment that allows cuddling cuz that mm-hmm.

Barrier. I mean, I, at least I know from me it takes a little bit to like cuddle someone. So how like, How do you break those barriers down? That's incredible. You just open up and no reason.

Keeley: I love this question so much. I'm really, I wanna take a pause just to be grateful for you for asking it. Thank, because you have touched on immediately the thing that makes this different.

The thing that makes this a profession, the, all those certifications, it's not like do this pose and your arm goes here. Right? Like that's not really the majority of any of the certifications. What is right. The skill in this is exactly what you're talking about. It's creating a space for. Relative strangers to feel comfortable enough to not only just like, touch another person, but have the emotional intimacy of cuddling and receiving that so that at the end of it, they feel blissful.

Yeah. That, that takes a lot. Part of it takes, uh, there's, there's some buzzwords that I love throwing out, and hopefully they'll resonate. Let me know if I should explain more. Sure. Um, there's a, there's a thing called unconditional positive regard. And that means anyone who shows up as a client after the vetting process, et cetera, it's.

I am going to always look at you from the best possible lens. I'm gonna recognize all of your humanity. I'm gonna honor all of the parts of you. Good, bad, indifferent, silly, strict. All of the parts of you are welcome. Every facet of your personality is valuable.

Sidney: Um, that is incredible. Like you have to, because that in itself takes a lot of self-healing, I feel.

Right. Like that takes a lot of like understanding of self that most people, unless you're in an intimate relationship and even if you are in an intimate relationship, can't. Mm-hmm. Really. Get into like, that's, that's the core of cuddling. I mean, that's crazy. I, that's like to, so, so to me, when I was, again, I was looking over the website and I was like, I would like to cuddle these people, these, they seem nice.

Mm-hmm. And I was like, gosh. Like even just like the, uh, I guess the show on a website has to be like, no, this is okay. Like, you're gonna be safe. You're gonna be secure here. Because I'm sure that you get a lot of people that like deal with some pretty big shit. Like that's a big deal. And I don't know, I, I, I think.

As, as stepping back for a second, uh, as a person that comes from a family of C PTs, D and PTs D and stuff, I definitely just wanna thank you for being a cuddler, cuz that's really nice. Mm-hmm. Like, that's like one of the nicest things that someone could do. Like if I could. If I could go back and be like, Hey, there's gonna be a person that you could, you could just like cuddle and cry.

If you do, that's fine. I would common that. Right? Like that. That's what I thought. I was like, cuz the minute that you break down those walls, I'm crying, like I'm cry, I'm gonna cry. Like how often? Mm-hmm. You said it's common, so Yeah, it has to be like with every client you have and re like, re like, since it's like therapy, I'm sure you see these people like consistently.

Right.

Keeley: The. Cool thing is that the answer to that is oftentimes yes, but there's such a large, such a broad type of folks who come to get this service. It can be from someone wanting just a novel new experience. Yeah. Like how cool is that? I wanna cuddle and I love this sensation of that. Like that's a really fun experience for me.

I know I love that in my life, and let's try it with this person. Some people are that comfortable and it's beautiful and remarkable when you come across them and other folks. There have been a series of several sessions over months where we didn't touch at all until Wow. We worked through Built Trust.

Oh yeah. Wow. Oh yeah. So that's, that's, and the very first touch was like the ET phone home moment. Sure. Yeah. Like, and I mean that was, and that was a breakthrough.

Sidney: That's incredible. It's just so, and I, I guess that kind of goes to another question that I have, which is, um, Is there, uh, I guess like typical therapy training before you get to cuddle therapy, right?

So do you go through those things or do you have an understanding of that before it's like, oh, like I understand, like if there's trauma that you maybe don't want to cuddle or whatever, um, you know, that kind of thing.

Keeley: Some professionals do, some professionals don't. Some certifications cover a little bit of the basics of what, what I'm interpreting to be, um, trauma-informed care.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Some certifications do a good job of covering the basics of that and some don't. One thing that feels important to just make clear is that cuddle therapy, professional cuddling. Et cetera is an unregulated industry. Sure. Which differs from traditional psychotherapy, right? Like there is a state governed, like bureaucracy, bureaucratic process.

There's licensure issued by the state. There is a, a board that you have to apply to. Um, and, and there's some standards there that are, that are governed by an existing, like an outside body. Right, right, right. With cuddle therapy, each individual certification program has its own standards. They're as someone who's taken every single one of them, they're similar, but there's some, there's some variability there.

And so when, the thing I like to say is it's a really great idea for a savvy, for you to be a savvy consumer and don't just like, okay, I found someone, here's their picture. Sign up. Right, like go through a consultation process. Do they even have a consultation process? So be a savvy consumer, right. Um, in who, who you're, um, vetting for this service.

Cuz it, you're touching on some really important things that it can be really vulnerable, it can be really powerful. Um, but yeah,

Sidney: that's, I mean that, yeah, that's absolutely, and I guess, um, I think the powerful aspect of it is really what intrigues me just because of that wall breaking down. But I mean it, and I think we've touched on it a lot unless like, could you maybe, like, I don't know.

So you don't start as a cuddle therapist, right? Do you, do you start as like a cu cuddle apprentice? Like what, how, how do you get to where you are now with, with so many hours of certifications?

Keeley: Is that a how did I get to where I am now? Or is that, how does one, if they were decision, this one,

Sidney: how did you become the cuddliest?

Uh,

Keeley: the cuddly. I love this. Keep that coming. I love that. I wanna say a quick story, and that is when I told my family that I was gonna do this professionally, this was gonna be my full-time job, I was leaving my corporate position to do this. Sure. They had some questions. Yeah. And after they exhausted all their questions, the first thing they said was, Oh, you've been doing this since you were five.

Oh, sure. So, uh, how I came to this was very much a bringing out of all the things that already existed in me and just realizing, yeah, okay. Actually no, no, that's valuable. People want that. That's a service that you can provide just who you are in the world. Yeah. So, um, that, that was a cool affirmation, but I came across an event called Cuddle Party.

There's a non-for-profit organization called Cuddle Party in Core, Inc. Um, And it runs these events that are boundaries and consent workshops. Mm-hmm. That are kind of couched in the availability of cuddling folks. Sure. But the whole first hour to hour and a half is a class on how do you relate to people, how do you, how it's a comprehensive class on consent uhhuh.

And it was the first time I'd ever had any kind of education like that. And it. Broadened my whole

Sidney: world. I mean, how many people were there? Was the end of the session cuddling or was the end of the session like, now we know about consent and now we know how to like go into a room and cuddle people?

Keeley: What was it?

It's a four hour

Sidney: long event. Whoa. That's a whole day.

Keeley: So yeah. Wow. So the first hour to, like I said, hour and a half, depending, um, is the workshop part. Yeah. Everyone's doing and participating in this standardized workshop. And then the last two to three hours are what we put free range cuddling, meaning you can use.

Sidney: Yeah. Love that. I love that you can just walk around and cuddle whatever you want,

Keeley: just cuddle Well, but you have to use all the skills that you just learned. Oh, sure. And the facilitator is there helping folks if they get stuck or if they, you know, need any assistance or need some support. The facilitator is there to help this environment feel really good and cozy and wonderful and comfortable.

And like I said, it's four hours in most. People who hear that are like the what? Yeah, that is too, too much. How dare.

Sidney: It's just a one session though, right? So it's like that four hour session, and then at the end of it, you have a greater understanding of cuddling with a hundred of your closest friends.

Keeley: Mm-hmm. Great. Yeah. Typically the ones that I've attended are around 20 to 30 folks. Oh,

Sidney: okay. So it's like much, is it, is it in like a big open room? Like do you have a lot of space to like. You know, like, is it in like a multipurpose? Yeah. If it was

Keeley: easy to turn my camera, I would show you where I host them.

Um, there you go. But yeah, you would typically feature a nice big room, lots of really cushy pads and mattresses on the floor that are spread out. There's cushy chairs. Um, typically there's like a snack table off to the corner, right? There's a. Bot where people can sit and chat if they don't want to, you know, be cuddling.

There's, um, typically an extra room that's just kind of a quiet room if you need a little space or if you need a little time by yourself, because some of, while the environment is typically very jovial. It's very lighthearted. You've got a bunch of adults in pajamas, right? Like this is not, we're not. It is not a serious moment.

Right. But it has serious moments for people. Right. And it can bring up a lot of really powerful emotions. So

Sidney: you have to be as comfortable as possible when you cuddle as well. You're in pajamas or you're in I recommend it, yeah. Well, sure. But like sometimes I cuddle and I'm not in the most comfortable clothes, but as a professional cuddler is your, uh, uniform, just cozy.

Are you just

Keeley: walking around in PJs all day? Listen, friend, I write off onesies as a tax writeoff. Yes. They're my uniform. Yes.

Sidney: That is

Keeley: an expense I love. Yeah. I have a, a Canada Kigo. I write it off.

Sidney: Sure, sure. Absolutely. No, that makes total sense. I mean, and I guess that goes into like, so let's say, um, a person, so let's say I want to, uh, Ask for a cuddle session?

Is that like what, like so do and then I do that and then like, do you have like a back to back schedule of cuddles all day or is it like I. What does that, what does that feel like? Like, like how busy are you every day? Are you just like constantly cuddling? That is the nicest thing I've ever said. Oh my gosh.

Keeley: Um, it depends on the day. Uh, but I, and I have some boundaries for myself just because like, I get to choose how often and how much and whatnot. And interestingly enough, what I have found is that I can have five, um, hours or four people. Per day, whichever comes first. So say two people book, um, wait, is it six hours, not five, six hours, or four people?

So say two people book three hour sessions. I'm seeing two people that day. Wow. Because that's, that's about my capacity. If four folks book one hour sessions, then I'm not gonna see anymore.

Sidney: Wow. Okay. So you have a lot of control over your own cuddling. Mm-hmm.

Keeley: Which is nice. Mm-hmm. And that's really important and really key.

Sure. Um, this is not remotely an industry where the customer is always right. Yeah. This is a relational. Kind of caregiving and kind of support. So my, and you mentioned it earlier, my needs, my inner work. Yep. Like my, my personal processing is a part of the skillset that I bring and who I am. Yeah. Is part of the value that I'm bringing to the sessions.

People, if they just wanted to cuddle a mannequin, they can buy. Like a heated body pillow, right? Sure, yeah. Or they could buy, it's, it's the person, it's the emotional intimacy that really kind of makes it so powerful.

Sidney: I mean, that, that, to me, that's just the thing now that you're, now that we're talking about that it sort of reminds me of like, s you know, you must be drained, right?

Emotionally, physically, after. Cuddling four people a day or like for six hours. Mm-hmm. You're not, no,

Keeley: that's my, no, that's my limit because that's where I stop and I'm still completely thrilled and happy. I can push past that, and then if I do quite a bit past those levels, then I'm a little tired. But when I told you earlier that this is what I was always meant to do, I do not have a cuddle capacity.

Like I don't have a limit. It's just how I was built as a human being. Uh, it's weird for others. It is perfectly normal for me.

Sidney: Wow. So you're just a, ever, you're, you're just a battery of cuddles. You're just a, for the most part, you're, you're just an energized, you're just constantly, yeah. Cuddle people and you would still be fine with that?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. I don't know what that's like. I definitely have a co paddle for COPA capacity for too much cuddling. Um, I definitely think I need, which is now

Keeley: called copa. We've just done it co done, period. It's copa, right? It's your

Sidney: copa, right? It's my paddle. Uh, but I don't think that I would ever know what that is because I don't think I know that, like what my own sort of.

Uh, neurosis would be like, I think we're cuddling too long or it leads to other things. Um, so I don't, like, for me, it's always been a very intimate relationship, so I always like kind of either, okay, I have to go eat dinner now, or, okay, we're done, let's watch TV or whatever. But you're just saying that you can just cuddle forever.

That's,

Keeley: yeah. I mean, nuts. You're gonna take breaks. Sure. Cause you need water and you

Sidney: need Yeah. Right. Right. You need to go to the bathroom. You need to,

Keeley: right. Right. Exactly. It's not like you're changed to any like place and can't move. You're not arm's not asleep for hours on end. Right, right, right. Um, but yeah, no, I really don't have it.

It is, it is an extremely rare event. It does happen. Yeah. But it is an extremely rare event that I'm just like, I can't anymore. And typically that moment. Isn't caused from the, too much cuddling, it's caused from other sensory overload, like, oh, the lights in a room or so I, I am, um, ADHD and autistic. Sure.

And so sensory input is really intense for me. That's interesting. So that's normally what taps me out. Yeah.

Sidney: That's interesting because I feel like with, um, autism and, you know, being on that spectrum, you would sort of reach a capacity for sensory overload. Right? Like that's, that's sort of like something that.

I mean, I would think that kind of would be the first trigger of like, cuddle, um, stop. Like that's not, I don't know. I don't know if that's something that Cuddling

Keeley: helps it. Oh, cuddling increases my capacity. Wow. Cuddling calms down my nervous system. It feeds me so that I can, I can navigate the world better.

Yeah.

Sidney: I mean, so, and I guess, do you, I mean, do you like cuddling? I. After cuddling, like, do you, like if, if, um, do you want to be cuddled or do you only want to cuddle? Is that in

Keeley: session? Uhhuh? Yeah. So in session it's a clear container, right? This the folks that I'm cuddling with, we can do both, but it's directed and it, and it's client driven, right?

It, the purpose of the session is for the, the ultimate wellbeing of the client. Right. And so in that we are, we are still both present. I'm still bringing a hundred percent of myself. We just have a clear idea who it's for. Right. And I get to enjoy all of that. Right. I get to participate in all of that, and it's wonderful.

Yeah. When I'm not in session, then both. Yes. And I love being cuddled. I love doing the cuddling, um, directionality is, is like, yes.

Sidney: Does it, does it ever affect like any relationship sets you have? Like you're too good at cuddling, like is your significant other like, oh, you're not. We can't cuddle because you're so good at it.

Is that a thing? I feel like I wouldn't have that problem if you were my significant other. It was just like, no.

Keeley: It's like, uh, you can't be that good at cooking and feeding me wonderful meals. Like, stop, stop this, you know, Michelin star kind of treatment here. I can't handle it. It's like, no, they, they're just gonna enjoy it.

Sidney: Sure, sure. So, I mean, does it, I mean, does it affect relationships that you have that you're so good at cuddling or you're cuddling so many people? Or is it like positively?

Keeley: Positively. It certainly impacts them. Oh my God. Impacts the positively. That's incredible. I'm so happy that it's not negative.

Sidney: I'm so happy that you could equate cuddling to Michelin Star service because it is such a basic need.

It's like such, mm-hmm. Such a thing. Like if you, you know, it's that that's incredible that you're just like, Like you're going on, like if you go on a date is the first thing you say, by the way, I'm a professional cuddler. Is that like, what happens? I actually

Keeley: try, uh, I I leave that off a little bit if I go on a date.

Okay. Um, because it, it, whenever I say that, it tends to dominate a conversation. And that's not just, just on dates. Right. It would be like a podcast and everything novel. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and so oftentimes if I'm not trying to steal the show or take it, like grab attention, then I'll, I'll like, oh, I, you know, I, I'm in a care provider, or I'm a service professional, or something like that.

Right? Like, I'll, I'll um, not give specifics unless they're asked, or I'll just be directing the conversation and asking the other person interested questions. Right? Yeah. Um, because yeah, there's a lot of times people are really curious about it, which makes total sense. Yeah. But I might not always wanna talk about work.

Oh,

Sidney: that's true. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure you have other, uh, interests besides cuddling. Um, You know, it say's the top though. It is the top. I mean, I see you have fantastic nails. So for anyone at home listening Yeah, she has fantastic nails. Um, just perfect for cuddling in my opinion. I just gotta say that right off the bat.

Another business expense. Like, that's incredible. I was just looking at them, I was like, oh my gosh. That must be one of the best parts about, imagine

Keeley: a head scratch with these can.

Sidney: Can't. I'm sorry, I can't because that's too perfect. That's too perfect. Is that like the ultimate, is that, was that something that you knew going into cuddling, like, oh, I need to have like spot on nails.

Like is that sort of like a cuddling life hack? Would you, would you consider that like, oh, I get definitely like more clients because they know I got the dopest nails.

Keeley: Um, for me, yes. I don't think that's applicable to everyone. I don't Sure. And I don't, and it's certainly not applicable to every client.

Yeah. There's some folks who absolutely hate lighter, any kind of lighter sensation uhhuh, they want much more firm. Like they're massages are great, compression is great, but as soon as you get too light on their skin, they're like, ah, I hate it. Get away. Yeah. Um, and, and so that wouldn't, they wouldn't. You know, that wouldn't appeal to them.

Yeah. Um, cuz everyone is so different, which is one of the best parts about this job. I see the vast differences of every walk of life. It's really cool. I mean, yeah, it's been Los Angeles, but for me it has become a signature

Sidney: Go ahead. Wait, go ahead. Yeah. So for you it has become a signature though. The nails.

Yeah, they, yeah. Cool. So do you put the nails in your profile like that is not, I mean, I, I only visited the website just to make sure that I saw all of the cuddling professionals. I didn't read it completely. Um, but I have it up here and I don't see anything about nails.

Keeley: No, I, I don't put it in my profile on my socials or when I, you know, when I chat with folks, um, it, it comes up, or when I make videos you can see them.

Cuz I talk a lot with my hands. Yeah. Uh, and so that way it has become a little bit of a signature and, and people will, will notice it. But no, I don't, I don't particularly advertise it really.

Sidney: That's, I would, um, if I was a professional cuddler, I would also leave that as a surprise because I don't know if people would be able to handle how.

Cool. It would be, especially for me to be like, oh my God, that head scratch is gonna be so good. Cool. Like, like as an aside to myself. That's incredible.

Keeley: I did have someone, uh, so a colleague of mine hired me to give them a session. Oh. Um, and it was a really beautiful experience and she, after the session, posted about my nails, because they were one of her favorite parts of the, you know, hour and a half we spent together.

So,

Sidney: oh my gosh. That makes total sense. So cuddlers hire other cuddlers like therapists. These therapists, I,

Keeley: oh my gosh. Yes, I, I really recommend it. I, I've even done a little bit of, um, I don't know, advocacy about that of like, We need to experience what it is like to be in the client shoes client role.

Yeah. It is a really vulnerable place to be and for us to be the best practitioners, but also just to have the best, like self-care. We really need to be receiving this kind of care a lot. So yes, getting, uh, cuddle Therapy Sessions is a part of, I would say, a really robust practice. Do

Sidney: you recommend. Other practices with cuddling because I know that like when you think of therapy as like a practice, right?

You think of cuddling therapy as a practice, it really goes in tandem with like, you know, other maybe not relaxation methods, but something, you know, other things that are a constant and consistent practice. So is that something that you would recommend for people that want to either, um, Ask for a cuddle session.

I can't believe I even, I'm even saying that like, that's such a wild thing that you can do. You can just ask someone to cuddle you. Um, but like, is that, is that something like you would say, oh, in tandem with or in, you know, with therapy, maybe cuddle, like, cuz you need to process things in other ways. Like, cuddling is just one part of the processing.

Right?

Keeley: Absolutely. Absolutely. So working in, um, in the industry, it's called a tdic model. So working with a client who has both a therapist and a cuddle therapist, um, TRIAC models are brilliant and there's lots of precedent for them, and, um, they can do some really powerful work. I also recommend that folks who are, um, doing this professionally get multi disciplinarily trained.

Yeah. So I, in addition to, um, to. Specific cuddle certifications. I also, um, have training in what's called internal family systems or if fs mm-hmm. Uh, therapy, uh, e f T. Mm-hmm. Which is that tapping, if you've seen tapping a lot. Yeah. Classic, um, uh, embodiment. Mm-hmm. Um, visualization and meditations. Yep. So having a lot, uh, having a robust, like well-rounded skillset.

Yeah. Brings this work. To better places for integration,

Sidney: if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that makes total sense. I was trying to think, um, I had a question, but one, one that just shot into my head was what's the profession like? Cuz you know, you, you hear about people leaving corporate jobs all the time, but is there a profession that people leave and come to?

Like, have you seen, you know, uh, certified quote unquote, like therapists go from doing in session one hour sitting face to face? From that to cuddling. Do you see mostly like, um, people like yourself who are, uh, in corporate jobs and it's like, I don't wanna do this anymore. Like, is there like a set of people that it seems like enjoy cuddling more, that wanna make this a profession?

Um,

Keeley: I would say FE folks who are already in some sort of caregiving profession mm-hmm. Are really prone to this. Mm-hmm. So if someone is a massage therapist, I know, I know quite a few people who are dually massage therapists and, um, cuddle therapists, and they have, you know, um, Uh, a joint practice or a different practice.

I know a lot of folks who do, um, uh, reiki or energy work is also a thing that brings folks in. I have definitely experienced, um, some of my colleagues coming from the world of psychotherapy mm-hmm. And transitioning either full-time or, um, part-time to cuddle therapy with, not with the same clients, but with different clients and, and having a split practice.

So, I would say the people who are most prone to it are folks who are already in other caregiving professions. Right,

Sidney: right, right, right. So people that are already like cussing on cuddling, so, They're, they're, they're cuddly, cuddling customers. Yeah. They're like, they're like, ah, you know what would make this better if we were cuddling?

And I bet I could do that really good. Mm-hmm. That's, wow, that's amazing. Um, all right, well, I, I do have to ask, do you make mistakes on the job? Like, is that a thing that can happen in cuddling. Absolutely. Absolute. Absolutely. Like what, what are those? Like,

Keeley: um, what's a good example with my A D H D? There's been a time or two where like, I, I ran late or, um mm-hmm.

Uh, messed up the links or something for mm-hmm. Uh, a virtual session, and so I needed to do some apology and repair work there. But what I wanna, so human beings, we're all human beings. Yeah, of course. It's entirely possible. And welcome to make a mistake in session. Actually, one of the beautiful things that we do and part of the opening agreement, um, and this is a, a cuddle list, specific practice.

Cuddle list is a specific certification program, but every single session we have an opening agreement. And part of that is practicing what it's like to like, Recover from that? Or, or, or, yeah. Redirect when something doesn't quite feel right or when there's been a little misstep or like, you know, I, I'm noticing that that isn't really very comfortable.

Can we shift or can we adjust? We practice those skills so that it becomes easeful so that we're both allowed to be humans. We're both allowed to experiment, explore, look into trying something new, and it can be a welcome environment for that. And we are still gonna be okay. Um, one of the most powerful deepening, uh, things that you can do for any kind of connection is a process in, in therapeutic models called rupture and repair.

If you've never had a moment where someone was like, oops, and then had to fix it, Then you never know whether or not the person you're in connection with can do that. Whether your relationship has resilience, whether this person, if anything were to ever go wrong is just gonna then be done. Yeah. Right.

There is a different deeper connection that comes from rupture

Sidney: and repair and that that, I mean that it's the classic process in therapy will like, okay, we'll like sit in it for a second. That's totally fine. What happens if that happens? Um, well we had to actually take a break, but I do want to say before we go, I want a cud list t-shirt.

So I'm gonna try to figure out how to get that, uh, before we end. Oh, I can, oh yeah. Gotcha. This conversation. So, uh, we'll be right back. Hey everyone. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it. You're, you're learning about cuddling with me, that's wild. This is such a fun episode. If you do like this episode, please let us know.

Rate and review it, spread the love, share with everyone that you know. Send it to everyone. Please leave a rating and review it and be honest. What do you think? How can we make this better? What do you think about the guests? Who should we interview? Let us know. And don't forget to check us out on Patreon.

That's right. Patreon. If you want to join the community, it is available to you. You could become a rascal. I can't believe that I'm saying that we have a community. We're called the Rascals. I've been holding onto that community name forever, so please come hang out with us on Patreon. You get early access to episodes, you can get bonus episodes, including a whole other monthly show with me and my friends.

It's amazing, a super cool Discord server. We have live streams and so, so much more. So I'll see you on Patreon. All right. Back to the show. Welcome back, everyone. We're talking here with Keely, a professional cuddler, one of the owners of the greatest t-shirts I've ever seen, which just says cuddle lists, which I want.

So thank you for that. Um, I literally, I want one from me and my wife, and now my little daughter who's 10 months old. She's just gonna say, cuddler

Keeley: I love. It's, we also have ones that say emotional support, human, so, That's

Sidney: incredible. Uh, well, I actually, so we were just talking actually about, um, what does remote cuddling mean?

Because you are a virtual cuddler as well, right? So you, um, there's an option for that. It's like, do you, so, so how, how do you, how do you cuddle someone if you're not. I r l, like what is that?

Keeley: Yeah. Yeah. So we have to get a little creative and we have to game our brain a little bit. Mm-hmm. So some of the techniques that are really easy to understand, um, guided meditations, those can be really good, really powerful.

And it's helpful to have someone doing something that is specifically catered to you and that falls in the realm of this kind of work at. Pairs beautifully with it. We can do games, practicing boundaries and consent and personal development. That's also part wrapped up in the, in the world of cuddling, it involves a lot of boundaries and consent work.

So personal development on that, the touch part of it. Yeah. That I know is the most curious, like, uh, cuddling virtually. So one, one good example that I always give is a game called Mirror Touch. And what would happen? Should we play it is an instruct. We would you

Sidney: like to, should we play it right now? Yeah, let's try it.

Okay. Yeah,

Keeley: I love it. Oh my gosh. Okay. Okay. So first of all it, are there kinds of touch that you like more than others? For instance, soft, we, we said you like nails.

Sidney: Nails are good. Yeah, I don't, I have that, but I like nails. So we're about to do some mirror touch, everyone, so nails are good. Um, head, but I have these headphones on.

Um, let's see. I don't know. I like just kind of like being like squished. I guess this is awesome. I'm so happy that this is the, um, this is going in the podcast that I'm happy that people can learn that. I like to be squished Ed, ed cuddled.

Keeley: Hey, it's really brave of you to share that, actually. Thank you.

Like separate from the, like, you know, it's awesome. Oh, thank you. I

Sidney: appreciate that. Fantastic. That just, that just felt so good.

Keeley: Yeah. Thank you. Um, do, yeah. So mirror touch. Would you like to try it with me? Let's try it knowing a little bit more about you, then it is gonna be helpful. So first, the first thing that we do is take a nice big, deep breath in.

Low in your belly. Mm-hmm. Deep breath in. When you're ready. Breathe. Then exhale slowly. Yes, nice and slow. Can sink into your seat a little bit more. See where you, your weight is being supported by the chair. Mm-hmm. Another deep breath in. Maybe you feel where your arms on this exhale feel where your arms touch your sides, or on the chair, just kinda get awareness in your body.

Sidney: So for anyone listening, I encourage you all to do this as well.

Keeley: Yeah. You can let your breath return to normal. And my invitation for you. You're welcome to with your eyes open or closed, whichever Feels good. Yeah. You can have, um, your right and left arm on your forearm, crossed over your chest like you're giving yourself a little hug.

Oh.

And I want you to imagine just like you see me on the screen, that I am right there holding you. I'm not gonna cry.

Sidney: Shut up. I don't, oh, it's so nice.

Keeley: If it feels good, you can go into a deeper hug. See if you can cross your arms over each other. Oh my gosh. If it feels good, you can rock back and forth.

That's what I would do if I was there. This is crazy. I've never, I've never

Sidney: experienced something like this before where you're just like cuddling and you're having someone on the other side of the screen like tell you that there too.

Keeley: Mm-hmm. Now to to end. I'm gonna invite you to put your hands on either side of your face.

Just like, uh, as if a grandma, like a grandma was coming up to their, their little kid, like, oh, I just love you so much. Oh, hold the preciousness there,

and when you're ready, you can stop. What if, what if

Sidney: I don't want to stop?

Keeley: Well, we do have a podcast, but in a session you have, you have

Sidney: podcast everyth to do. Well, that was incredible. Thank you. But I was hearing it that, so you get to do that for like an hour, Uhhuh.

Keeley: That's amazing. Yeah, that's typically a section of it.

Right. But there are a couple of things that I, I've never done this in a podcast format, so I was actually a little wondering how it was gonna go. Yeah. I'm really glad that it touched on a couple of things. So can I meta point out some key things? Yeah, please do.

Sidney: Absolutely.

Keeley: The first. I would say 60 to 90 seconds of this activity mm-hmm.

Are awkward. Yeah. Period. Always. Yeah. They always are. Yeah. And that's actually okay. We noticed it in this with a lot of deflection, with like giggling a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Because we're not used to it. This is weird. Why are we doing this with this screen? You, why am I touching myself this way? It's not, our bodies are not used to it.

Yep. But after that, that 30 to 90 seconds of, oh, what am I even doing? Your body starts to be like, well, but I don't hate this. Yeah, yeah. I don't, I'm not used to it, but it's, it's kind of nice. Yeah. And then your body settles in into that. Yeah. And so, What we're doing there is we're kind of tricking our brains because you see the action happening.

You see me do it on the screen. Yeah. You feel it on your body, even though you're doing it yourself, and your brain is like, it's Pat, it's, you know, it's a pattern recognition machine. It's like, oh, I know what's happening. I know what I'm supposed to do here. Yeah. And it makes that feel and sink into your

Sidney: body.

Well, even, even during. When you were talking about it, um, and when you're, you know, I think, I think there's something that has really come out of going virtual for pretty much everything, which is like this understanding of language that is needed in the moment, right? Like a lot of virtual yoga instructors or a lot of, you know, virtual cuddle lists, right?

Like have this ability to sort of, I. Take you out of that awkward moment and bring you into, just listen to your breathing. Like when you said, you know, hold your ha hold your hands over your face like your grandmother would, I was like, oh, I know what that is. Right? Like you have such a, uh, wonderful ability to sort of like, take the, take self and just say, just enjoy something.

Like that's, this is what is needed right now. You need to, you need to cuddle yourself. And I remember, I. I don't know. I was transported to being with my grandma or being with my mom, or, you know, being held by my wife. Like all these things that are so amazing and beautiful, and even now I feel myself like in a more relaxed state.

So thank you. Like it's

Keeley: absolutely credible. I wanna honor also, it takes a lot of, whether it's a podcast or not, it takes a lot of bravery for every single one of my clients to even embark on anything that vulnerable. Yeah. Vulnerability is challenging and it, it feels really risky and it's major, major roi.

Yeah, roi, major return. You know, it can feel amazing once it's happened, but that first, the, the getting there. Getting there is an act of courage. I mean, and so thanks for being willing.

Sidney: I, I brought, what's interesting is that like I brought a pillow to practice cuddling on, but through our conversations, I'm not sure if that's actually the best way to practice cuddling.

Is practice cuddling on self better than practice cuddling on a pillow because you have so many plushy beautiful things. You have a koala back there with rainbow ears. You have a panda with pink ears. You have a nice moon. Oh my god. And it sparkles when you move, just like the one on the other side of you.

And like

Keeley: I have a dinosaur chicken nugget pillow.

Sidney: Is that a pterodactyl? Dinosaur chicken nugget? Uh

Keeley: huh. Oh my God, that's incredible. This is a gift from

Sidney: a client. That's incredible. That's delight. So, I mean, yeah, like here, like I, I, I know this is, you know, it's, it's audio, but I have this big pillow for sure.

Right. Very big squishy pillow that I was like, oh, I'm gonna bring in a pillow and cuddle with Keely. But through our session, like I just said, that's not the best way to cuddle or learn how to cuddle. So what we just did, it can be

Keeley: incorporated. Yeah. But, but yeah, it's the, the thing that makes cuddling feel so, so good is the connection.

Most of time. Oh my gosh. Um, that, that's not universal, but it, that's the thing, the key. And so it's so interesting when people, uh, one of the biggest things that I get asked to do, like demonstrate on social media, the thing I get asked all the time by folks. Is like, show me different cuddle positions.

Yeah. And it's very much, and I get it because you're trying to understand something through the lens of what you're used to in the world when you have no frame of reference for it. Like what? Professional cuddling, what, and that makes total sense. So if you're learning a new skill, like dancing, you would go and learn the steps, right?

Like Totally. But the thing about cuddling is that the one, the thing that makes it feel so good is that you are connecting to your own body. You're letting yourself feel the sensations in your skin of like, relaxation. I can, I can geek out on the neuroscience of it if you want, but, and I mean, yeah. And you're connecting with someone else.

Yep.

Sidney: Yeah. So, so I mean, and that's the piece that's important because you said earlier, actually earlier in this, you know, when we were talking you said that anyone can go get a, a warm body pillow. Right, and, and squeeze it real tight. But there's an innate and it could be helpful. Yeah, absolutely. Like.

When my wife was pregnant, that body pillow, I loved it more than she did. Like it was incredible. Like we had a C pillow that she was using to lay on her side and everything, and she was like, I hate this thing. I can't do it. And then I would use it. I was like, this is perfect. Like I have someone hugging me all night.

Mm-hmm. And I can, like, it's great. I love it. But the connection that you get from, I sleep with one of those. Often. There you go. Yeah. But the connection that you get, we had to give it away though, which was so sad. We had to give it back to the person that we, I know it was, I was, I was actually more sad about it than she was cuz she was like, we're finally done with this thing.

And I was like, but we can we keep it please. Um, but you know, it was one of those things where that still wasn't as good as being cuddled by someone I love or someone in general. Right. Like, and I think that is such an important thing to take away from this. Like, you can cuddle. Any, you know, you can, you can cuddle my stuffed animal wolfie that I've had since I was a year old.

Like now he looks over my daughter's crib. Like, it's a very cute thing. You can cuddle, you can and cuddle your stuffed animals all day, but being held by someone is so different. And even in these virtual sessions, like holding self, right? Like, like hugging. I, I don't know. It's just,

Keeley: well, while someone's there with you, someone's there with you seeing you being present with you, sharing the experience with you, even if it's not their hand on your cheek, they're the both of our hands were on our cheek.

Yeah. We know, we shared that, what that felt like in our bodies and, and in the experience. Wow.

Sidney: That is absolutely amazing. I, I mean, I know that we just did a cuddle segment, but like, I mean, would you, so are those like the biggest things that you would, I guess, tell people if they do want to try cuddling, is like share the moment with someone.

Don't just do it by yourself. Like there's no Mm. Does that, I mean, I guess that's a kind of a big takeaway that I'm

Keeley: having right now. Yeah, and the thing I wanna stress about that, cuz it's a really brilliant point that you bring up, is it's two things and they're in a specific order. The order matters.

The first thing is the connection to self. Are you in your body? Yeah. Are you honoring. What you actually like and don't like. Yeah. Is you, if you are staying in the same position while your arm is asleep, you're not honoring. Right. You need, it is okay to say, I need it just a little bit. Right. If someone's hair is in your face, you're not honoring you.

You have to be present in your body to share that, that, that feeling in yourself with the other person. And then that's the second part. It's sharing it with the other person.

Sidney: Yep. I mean, that's so. Difficult to do. I've been in therapy. Off and on since I was, you know, a kid, but for real, for real. Every single week or every two weeks for the last, like, I would say, six years.

Right. And I think, mm-hmm. Going into something. I don't like yoga because I don't like sitting with self. Right. I don't like yoga or I don't like, you know, it's really difficult in any practice, any self-awareness practice, especially if you come from a trauma background to sit with self and like mm-hmm.

Sharing that with someone is so unbelievably difficult, and once you realize that, like, oh, you need to name that and then work through it. Yeah, you can do something like be in a cuddle session and actually sit with it. I mean, I don't think that seven years ago I would not have been able to do this with you.

Truly. Like I would not, I would not have been able to just be like, even now I was deflecting, I was doing all this stuff. I mean, obviously there's more to it, like we're recording a podcast and you and I are talking to each other and like, you know, all that stuff. But, um, but, but I still, I still think that it, it took.

A lot of work to even be able to like do that. And I do sort of want to stress like you did too. How powerful and, and how aware you have to be and like comfortable with yourself to do something like this. Like ask someone to cuddle you. That's I. That's so much, that's so like, man, especially if you're not like receiving that cuddling from relationships or whatever you're doing.

Like if you're having a bad day at work or if you're, if you saw a movie that spooked you out, like I, I want to. Call a cuddler now because I don't like scary movies. They're spooky. But if I had someone to like cuddle me afterwards, you know,

Keeley: like maybe that's actually better. I love that. That's incredible.

And I wanna affirm what you're saying. I hear, I hear you saying like on honoring how difficult that being with self can be. Yep. Um, and it, that's a thousand percent true. And it's also not. It's both things. Yeah, because it's our natural state. Think about a little kid when a little kid is watching tv, where is their body?

Like a toddler, like got one hand above their head. They're like kind of halfway upside down their legs going, shake it. Like they just have this into, they have. They still have the language and the part of themselves the, that is just innate. Yeah. That their body knows that your body knows what it wants.

Yep. And the stuff that has happened in our life kind of put some layers that make that a little bit difficult, but that's always there. And so once we get practice at kind of parting those layers a little bit, it's always there. It's always gonna be there. Maybe

Sidney: they're waiting for you. Yeah. I mean, I, I gotta say that even, even at 10 months old, uh, or almost 10 months old, my little daughter, you know, when she cuddles, she just knows how to cuddle.

And, you know, it's just like one of the, even when she was three weeks old, it was just like, oh, you're cuddling me right now. That's wild. Mm-hmm. That is truly,

Keeley: our bodies know. Yeah. I mean, our bodies just know we just have to it. The, the work is getting all the stuff out of the way.

Sidney: Yeah. Peeling away those layers of like, Not, not thinking.

I mean, and I think really to wrap it all up, going back to what we were talking about before, but like that safety that you create is so, so, so important and powerful. I really, I just want to thank you for that. I want to thank you for creating safe spaces for people like me and so many others. Um, it's absolutely incredible to have those connections.

Uh, and I don't know. Yeah, I just, and you know, thank you for being on this show. Um, And you know, it's, oh, my heart is so full hearing

Keeley: that. Thank you.

Sidney: Well, yes. Well, I, I really, I really do mean it. I mean, you are, It's a very important thing that you're doing. Before you go, I do want to ask, what are you doing now?

What would you like to talk about or have people find you? I know that you have, uh, keely shoot.com, you know, at anything else, like tell us about yourself. Yeah.

Keeley: Yeah, if anyone is curious about this work from either end of it, whether they're curious about becoming a client, uh, in my location or not, or if they're curious about doing this work, if it feels like something that they're called to, I invite anyone to reach out to me on all socials.

I am at your cuddle therapist. Um, and then email is my first and last name. K e e l e y s h o u p, at, um, at gmail or. Uh, K E E L E Y S H O U p, Keely shup um, dot com. For my website, I, in addition to having my private practice and seeing individual clients and doing group work, a big thing for me, um, is advocacy.

Mm-hmm. Advocacy for this work and how important it is and how. Um, profound. It can be how beautifully it works in tandem with therapists. You asked what I'm doing. Um, next week I am flying to San Francisco to speak at a conference for therapists about touch professionals and about my profession and how.

How it can, uh, couple really beautifully. Um, it's called asec, so it's the American Association for Sex Educators, clinicians and Therapists. So,

Sidney: oh, amazing. Well, that's also huge work. I mean, sex education is something that like, greatly needed in this country. Oh my gosh. So,

Keeley: So, so much. And that includes the platonic, uh, realm of it too, right?

Yeah. Like, so there's, there's both sides of the coin that you gotta honor. And my work is on the one side, and the beautiful thing about it being in a platonic container is that so much of the skills that we do are in a little bit lower stakes environment. Right. We we're not having to bring sexuality into it, which raises the stakes a bit for a lot of people.

Yeah. And so we're in a lower stakes environment even with the emotional vulnerability. That's high stakes enough. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all applicable. It's all applicable to affirming someone's sexuality. You can translate and transfer these skills. So it's really beautiful to couple in those spaces.

Sidney: That is a part of this conversation that we did not even get to talk on.

And I mm-hmm. I, I really, there's too much. It's okay. There's so much to talk about. Um, but if you have, uh, for anyone listening, if you have a job that we should try, please let us know. Uh, go to ELI thirty.com. Keely. Thank you so much. Any last words or tips, uh, that you want to give the audience? Any, thank you so much for having me.

Any life

Keeley: hacks or anything that you wanna share? Uh, my tip or invitation? Yeah, ask someone. Um, for something small this week that involves touch, whether it's holding a hand or giving a high five or a hug. Um, my, I encourage everyone to ask someone in their

Sidney: life, Oh my gosh. Keely, you are such a bright and beautiful soul.

Thank you so much for what you do, and thank you for being on the podcast. I really appreciate it. And we'll talk soon. Okay.

I am now so happy to say that I cuddle. And I can cuddle with myself and I know how to cuddle a little bit better. Not as good as Keely, obviously. Again, Keely, thank you so much for coming on. Such a fantastic first guest. Oh my gosh. If you have a question for me or know somebody awesome that you'd love to be a guest, shoot us an email.

Eli 30 Human Content dot. Com and hey, listen, if you just wanna chat, come hang out with me at Sydnee Raz on all socials, or kick it with our Human Content Podcast family on Instagram and TikTok at Human Content Pods. This is a new podcast, so we'd really appreciate you leaving a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Hang out with the ELI 30 member community. Called the Rascals. We have a great private discord and I'm active in it. I promise. It's me talking to you early ad free episode access, interactive q and a livestream events, and so, so much more. patreon.com/eli 30, or go to ELI thirty.com. Thank you so much for listening.

I'm your host, Sydnee Raskin. Special thanks again to our amazing. Guest, Keely Shup. Our executive producers are Sydney Raskin Aron, Reuben Korney, Rob Goldman and Shanti Brook. Our editor is Andrew Sims. Our engineer is Jason Pizzo, and our music is by Elmer Ben-Zvi. Our theme song is by Dr. Music. Explain Like I'm 30 is a human content production.

Remember, hydration equals happiness.

Keeley: Explain like I'm 30.