Moby (00:00:03):

Hi, this is Moby and welcome to episode five of Moby Pod. So a couple of weeks ago. First of all, hi Lindsay.

Lindsay (00:00:10):

Hi Moby.

Moby (00:00:11):

And hi Bagel.

Lindsay (00:00:12):

Hi Moby.

New Speaker (00:00:13):

A couple of weeks ago we got an email from a woman,

Lindsay (00:00:18):

Michelle,

Moby (00:00:19):

Michelle,

Lindsay (00:00:20):

Rebel Wheels NYC.

Moby (00:00:21):

Rebel Wheels, and she asked us about creativity and our creative process. And this is an ongoing conversation because obviously creativity can be a source of joy, it can be a source of anxiety, it can be a source of comfort, it can be a source of terror, like everyone has, myself included, has very complicated relationships with creativity. And so Lindsay and I thought we would invite our friend Lisa Edelstein, to come in and talk about her creative process because she has a really fascinating creative autobiography.

Lindsay (00:00:57):

She's done things that are so cool and she's managed to exist in so many spaces. So we thought she would just be the most perfect person to come on and talk about creativity because she's never painted herself into a corner

Moby (00:01:12):

<Laugh>. And you, most people would know Lisa from, she's been on television in so many different things, from Seinfeld to the West Wing to, what was that new one? Oh, The Kaminski Method. And she was on House for like seven years. And I think Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Lindsay (00:01:34):

So many things, ER, Frasier, Just Shoot Me, Without A Trace, Judging Amy, What Women Want, Keeping The Faith goes, like the list goes on and on.

Moby (00:01:41):

And so it would be interesting to just sit down and talk with her about acting. But she's also an incredible painter and she's expressed herself in a lot of other different creative ways. So without further ado,why Lindsay, why don't you and Bagel and I invite our friend Lisa Edelstein, to come in and talk to us so we can ask her why she's such a creative genius.

Moby (00:02:10):

Okay. So to Lisa, thank you for coming,to Moby Pod to talk to us about creativity and painting. UI'm right now saying thank you and introducing you because Lindsay is otherwise occupied ordering food.

Lindsay (00:02:25):

I'm just making sure we have lunch.

Moby (00:02:27):

Okay. So that's why I, I mean I sound stilted all the time.

Lisa Edelstein (00:02:30):

Moby's in a food panic.

Moby (00:02:31):

Yeah. I'm in a little bit of food panic, so I'm distracted. Like, am I ever going to eat again?

Lindsay (00:02:35):

<Laugh>, it's a sandwich-panic, but I swear it'll be here by one o'clock. Oh,

Moby (00:02:39):

Okay. So now I'm relaxed. I mean, insofar as I can never be relaxed.

Lindsay (00:02:43):

Thanks so much for coming and hanging out with us, Lisa, we've been, Moby and I have talked so many times about how impressed we are with the fact that we thought you were just this incredible legendary actor friend <laugh>, who also throws really good dinner parties <laugh>. But seeing you flourish as a painter has been so amazing to watch. And we had this concept of creativity and what it means to us. And we were thinking of who we should talk to about their creative life. And we were like, oh my gosh, it has to be Lisa. Just because you've had this incredible journey in so many creative avenues.

Moby (00:03:22):

Ultimately I want to, I'm just personally really curious about your subject matter. Because it's always, it's the first question I always ask myself when I go to a gallery or see someone's work. I'm like, why this? Like, if you're a photographer, less so, cause you're going out into the world and you're documenting things that are already there. But painting, it's a tabula rasa, literally, it's a blank can. It's a blank slate. A blank canvas. And so I don't that's me jumping the gun a little bit.

Lindsay (00:03:48):

Well, I definitely wanna talk so much about your painting, but I also, I think that your background and all the different things that you've done that have gotten you to where you are now as an artist are really fascinating too, and I think sets the stage for this medium that you're focusing on or

Lindsay (00:04:05):

That we're focusing on in the moment. And also I'm just really curious about, you are from New Jersey,

Lisa Edelstein (00:04:11):

Uhhuh.

Moby (00:04:11):

<Affirmative>. Well, Boston originally

Lisa Edelstein (00:04:13):

Born in Boston, but it doesn't count. I was, I was out of there by and then moved to Brooklyn and then to New Jersey. Can't blame, can't claim Brooklyn either. Cause wasn't long enough. Loved it though.

Lindsay (00:04:23):

But then, so you're in New Jersey, you went to Tisch when you graduated high school. For acting? And then you kind of entered into this world of like the club kid culture while you were in school.

Lisa Edelstein (00:04:36):

Well, simultaneous in school. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:04:38):

Which we were talking about how artistic that world was and how a person who doesn't have a truly creative mind wouldn't flourish in a place like that. And you really did. So I guess I wanted to know about a, how you entered into that world and how your creativity lent itself to how the legend you became in that, in that realm.

Lisa Edelstein (00:05:01):

I found that world by accident. Well, I mean, I had been clubbing since I was 14, but not in a place that was interesting or cool. Mostly like gross middle-aged men doing cocaine and trying to pick up on 14 year olds. But when I went to nyu, I met James Clark, who became James St. James. And he had been obsessed with this underground world. And he had been studying like The Factory and Warhol and that whole microcosm that existed in New York at the time, which really doesn't exist anywhere anymore because of the internet. There's no real microcosm. So he wanted a partner and I just loved him immediately and he taught me everything he knew about who is who in that world. And then we sort of schemed our way into it.

Moby (00:05:45):

<Laugh>. And, and just for context, so what year is this?

Lisa Edelstein (00:05:48):

This is 1984. So again, like I had been to Danceteria, had been to the tail end of Studio, I'd been to some other random disco techs, but now we're like, now it's the real world that he's sort of taking me into. And the things that he had planned out were exercises. Like you walk into a really crowded club and then he and I would go in the opposite direction and we'd ask everybody if they knew where the other one was. So I'd be saying, do you know where James St. James is? Do you know where James St. James is? And he would be saying, do you know where Lisa is? And we'd go all the way around this really crowded room until we got, and nobody knew us, so nobody would know who the other person was. So we'd get to the other side of the room and then we'd walk around together saying, we found each other. And that was James' plan on getting everybody to know our names. . So in a way he was like an Instagram influencer before there was the internet. Like it was all about sort of gaming this world that we, that he wanted to be a part of,

Lindsay (00:06:46):

Becoming a recognizable face in the scene where

Lisa Edelstein (00:06:49):

Yeah right. So, so we would be part of this world just because we demanded the right to be a part of this world. Right. meanwhile the world itself was like incredibly exciting having grown up in a very conservative town. , it was like a relief to be around people who were weird and who didn't express themselves in ways that were acceptable to the more conservative world. And I wanted to see and know and do everything. And so for me it was just incredibly exciting.

Moby (00:07:18):

And you were 16?

Lisa Edelstein (00:07:19):

No, at that point, I'm 18. I started going out when I was 14. What I was interested in was these other worlds.

Moby (00:07:26):

It was subcultures.

Lisa Edelstein (00:07:27):

I, yeah. These subcultures that I knew nothing about. that were a relief because there had to be something cuz I didn't fit in where I was. . So there had to be something. So it beca it began this quest of subculture. And

Moby (00:07:40):

I don't know if your experience was, I mean we, because we were about, we're roughly the same age. Yeah. I'm a little bit older. We started going to New York at the same time. Yeah. I went to New York to go to punk rock shows. Yeah. And then it ended up in Danceteria, the Mud Club Et cetera. Hearing you describe it, it reminds me there's almost a video game, Lord of the Rings aspect. It's like you'd look at Manhattan from New Jersey or from Connecticut and you'd be like, okay, that's the Dark Empire. And I'm gonna go in there and there's this network of underground tunnels. And the sad thing is I just don't know if that exists anymore, as you were saying.

Lisa Edelstein (00:08:14):

I mean, you know what? Honestly, it's not for us to know because it's a young person's journey. But I don't think it, I mean, it exists on the internet. They find each other that way, but it's not in real life.

Lindsay (00:08:24):

You don't have to go outside to find your community anymore. I think that these places,

Moby (00:08:29):

You don't have to master public transportation Exactly the way we did back then. It's like, okay, when's the last?

Lisa Edelstein (00:08:34):

And also just like being in the know, I mean, you found out about things because somebody handed you a slip of paper. We didn't, we didn't even have, we didn't even have message machines, whatever they were called,

Moby (00:08:46):

Fax machines?

Lisa Edelstein (00:08:47):

Yeah. We couldn't you couldn't leave voicemails yet. At that point in time for James, it was like a thing. And for me it was just so exciting.

Lindsay (00:08:56):

And did you, when you were going out, was your goal just to meet people? Or was there, were you trying to build some sort of

Lisa Edelstein (00:09:05):

Well, we were definitely, I mean, I always wanted to be an actress . So I was definitely trying to leave obscurity and find a way to enter the world at large. . So for sure that was part of it. But what I learned in that process when I got very famous for no reason, is that if you don't have something to back it up, it's not a pleasant experience. Like fame is not a goal. But what James's plan was, which really actually was. Right. Which is that if you can get a name for yourself, then you can sidestep and show people what you can do. The problem is people don't really want you to sidestep when you get celebrity for no reason. They just wanna kill you. <Laugh> either, either like they are stalking you and actually wanna kill you or rape you <laugh>, or they just wanna destroy you because it's not, there's something that's the only reason for your celebrity. It's like an idle worship. You, you build the idol to burn it down. And so you have to, it's a very painful process to then reclaim your name and your reputation. And that is what I had to do.

Lindsay (00:10:07):

Yeah. And you did it. And I think a lot of people don't figure out how to do the sidestep.

Lisa Edelstein (00:10:13):

Right. I'm very, very grateful for that. Yeah.

Moby (00:10:15):

And also, I think, just to put a little context in this, so, so you're 18 years old, you move from Wayne, New Jersey to New York to go to Tisch, you and James St. Now. James St. James. Then

Lisa Edelstein (00:10:26):

Just for first James Clark.

Moby (00:10:28):

Yeah. He becomes celebutantes. Which was how

Lisa Edelstein (00:10:31):

Newsweek described James first. Yeah.

Moby (00:10:34):

It was, you know, the, the people who were like in Details and Paper before Paper, which one be Details became details. Yeah. Yeah. So like, I mean, that was the goal's. Like the people who were on the cover of Paper, the people who are on the cover of Details, I was like, these are the most famous people in the world. The truth is they're famous between like Astraplace and 23rd Street <laugh>. Right. Like,

Lindsay (00:10:52):

Like an Edie Cedgwick.

Lisa Edelstein (00:10:54):

Oh, well Edie I think broke more barriers than that because that Warhol Scene. Factory I think was more famous.

Moby (00:11:00):

But then you very uniquely, you became an MTV star.

Lisa Edelstein (00:11:06):

Yes. Yes. So first I wrote my musical. First I, that's how I got out of the quandary that I was in. I wrote a musical about the AIDS crisis. So a lot of my friends called Positive Me. Yeah. So a lot of my friends were dying and the Reagan wasn't saying the word AIDS. And like, you know, I, I had volunteered for gay men's health crisis and took a 27 hour course just to learn about the disease. And people were pulling me into bathrooms and clubs asking me if they were dying, like showing me sores on their arms or in their mouth. And like, and I was just a kid who took a 27 hour workshop. So there was a lot of fear

Moby (00:11:42):

Cause there was no science around it at that point. Like people were, I mean this was even maybe before interferon,AZT before

Lisa Edelstein (00:11:49):

A Z T I think had just started when I, when I wrote this musical. So

Lindsay (00:11:53):

There was just panic. Panic.

Lisa Edelstein (00:11:54):

It was panic and,

Moby (00:11:54):

And the fear that like if you went to a public bathroom, you were going to get AIDS if you like.

Lisa Edelstein (00:11:59):

Yeah. It was panic. Or if you

Lindsay (00:12:01):

Drank the same cup

Lisa Edelstein (00:12:02):

Or like, I mean, I think by then we knew, we in the community knew that that was not how you got AIDS. But outside of that community, there was so much fear around it. that they were just abandoning sick people. families were abandoning their loved ones who were ill. And, and so people were left penniless and no ability to get whatever care there was available for them. So my volunteer work involved just going to the hospitals and visiting people that no one would go see.

Lindsay (00:12:29):

God.

Moby (00:12:31):

And the sickest I mean Yeah, it's actually, it's, it's actually, I get choked up thinking about what it was like then. Like people, it was very fast.

Lisa Edelstein (00:12:37):

And it was fast. Like you got diagnosed and died quickly and painfully because you probably had a lot of symptoms building up to it and you didn't know what it was people were also afraid to get tested for it because you could lose your insurance if you had any, if they even knew you got tested for AIDS

Lindsay (00:12:53):

They drop you from your insurance?

Lisa Edelstein (00:12:55):

Even if you, you just got tested. So you had to get tested anonymously and it would take like two to three weeks to get your results.

Moby (00:13:01):

Yeah. Those two to three weeks were so intense.

Lisa Edelstein (00:13:03):

Oh yeah. And like if you had the flu, you know what I mean? You thought, oh, this is it. Whatever you had.

Moby (00:13:08):

And, and the really just like a friend of mine was an AIDS researcher and she said, especially in the mid to late eighties, there were a lot of false positives. Like people who had certain types of hepatitis people who even had like, eaten bad shellfish would be given a false positive and then given AZT and interferon, which would kill them. So a lot. Oh my God. So there were,

Lisa Edelstein (00:13:27):

And there were, were some people who were positive and never, and it'd get sick for 30 more years. Like it was, there were so many different strains of the virus going around that you, so I had friends who chose not to do anything when they test positive. And some of them were right cuz they lived a very long time before they ever got sick.

Moby (00:13:44):

Yeah. Before they developed the AIDS cocktail, the drugs, they

Lisa Edelstein (00:13:47):

Were really brutal.

Moby (00:13:47):

I'm not a scientist, but the drugs were definitely not helping. Like they were taking sick people and making them quite a lot sicker.

Lisa Edelstein (00:13:54):

Maybe, maybe they lived a little longer. Some people survived AZT and lived to this day. You know who who did that was the guy who was on with Tammy Faye Baker. He very famously was dying at the time. Tammy Faye did an interview with him. I just saw a story. I was weeping because he's still alive and he was on AZT at the time and he thought he was gonna die. But but anyway, everybody was, was all these people were dying and, and it was so strange what was happening in the world. And so I was in a class with Elizabeth Suos and our challenge was to write a politically satirical song. And I wrote a song called Government A Okayed Sex about the Sodomy Laws. And then she was like really encouraging love my song told me to keep going. And then I ended up writing this musical and leaving school and producing this musical instead.

Lindsay (00:14:39):

Where did you do it?

Lisa Edelstein (00:14:40):

At This place called LA Mama, which is a I know LA Mama really wonderful theater. . And it started a lot of careers. Yeah. And because I had been famous in this other world, they knew I could at least get an audience for a workshop . So they gave me a workshop weekend in their little black box. And then Ellen gave me a full production the year playing.

Moby (00:14:57):

Was LA Mama on Rivington? No. Where?

Lisa Edelstein (00:14:58):

No. Fourth.

Moby (00:14:58):

Fourth. That's Okay. Yep.

Lisa Edelstein (00:14:59):

Yeah. So that was amazing. And so I raised money for it. I sang and danced in people's living rooms and raised money and, and then the theater matched the funds that I raised. So I had like $12,000 to do my show

Moby (00:15:12):

<Laugh>. $12,000 in the late eighties. That's like a billion dollars.

Lisa Edelstein (00:15:17):

That's a lot of singing and dancing in people's living rooms. Yeah. Yeah. It was really, it was beautiful. And then I did MTV and MTV was just this super dumb show, but I got a paycheck.

Lindsay (00:15:27):

What was the MTV show?

Lisa Edelstein (00:15:28):

It was called Awake on the Wild Side. It was really bad morning show. We were supposed to be the Regis and Kathy Lee of MTV and we really weren't <laugh>. But the best part about it was that I, I did a segment called Lisa's World. And so I started bringing in people from the club scene that I knew strange performers performance artists and just interviewed them in character on, so I gave them a national audience. Yeah. so that was, that was the only thing I remember.

Moby (00:15:52):

Do you remember who some of the people you interviewed?

Lisa Edelstein (00:15:54):

I remember John Kelly. . He was a amazing performance artist. I cannot remember who else. I think I had some of the club kids on. I think I had James and Patrick on, I can't remember honestly. That whole time was like, I called it three hours a day of National Humiliation. Five days a week.

Lindsay (00:16:10):

Oh my God. <Laugh>. So you, you wouldn't say you loved it, but it was

Lisa Edelstein (00:16:15):

No, I hated it. Yeah. I hated it. <Laugh>. And also I never wanted to be a host. And also I was playing Lisa E, you know what I mean? . And so then they had me play Lisa E on TV and I didn't wanna be stuck in that mode. So I really wanted to graduate from all of that. And so then I, when I, when that show was done, I went to LA and I started working in earnest as an actress.

Lindsay (00:16:39):

You have this amazing life in New York and kind of like work your way through this system. You go to NYU and then you're in LA and I think many of us will know so much of your work that you manage to accomplish, which is also not an easy

Lisa Edelstein (00:16:53):

No, not easy thing

Lindsay (00:16:54):

To do. <Laugh>, regardless of what you came from. I mean

Lisa Edelstein (00:16:57):

Yeah. Yeah. Well I had to sort of leave that behind. Yeah. In some ways when talking to representation, if I had to switch representation, I had a great backstory. But in terms of actually getting work, I had to leave that behind and not make it known that that was me. So I had to kind of recover from that story, but I was still happy to have that story.

Lindsay (00:17:18):

But you had something to back up this new story. Which was you were doing really well in these auditions and people were like, right. Exactly how she can

Lisa Edelstein (00:17:25):

I had to prove myself. Yeah,

Lindsay (00:17:26):

Exactly. <Laugh>. So you have all of these incredible years of work where people grow to love you and now you're painting.

Lisa Edelstein (00:17:35):

So all through all of that, like as a child, I always was drawing, I was always doing magic marker stuff. in high school I did art class, so I made a few paintings. My parents still have them hanging <laugh>. Aw. And, and art and creation was always something that was what I did in my alone time. . So, and I went through different phases in New York. I had this really obsessive thing where I was, I was grabbing frame picture frames or Nate picture frames that people threw away. And then reconstructing them with found objects like doll heads and beads and anything that I could find. So I had a whole box of that stuff and I would just glue them obsessively. I did a lot of drawing and at some point I was sewing. So I was always found I was healthier if I was busy doing other things in between working as an actress in particular.

Lisa Edelstein (00:18:28):

And there's a lot of time when you're in between. And those moments where I wasn't doing that stuff, then it would, I would suffer for it. So when the pandemic hit, and I had already done like 10 jigsaw puzzles, <laugh> and watched all the zombie movies and, and apocalypse movies. And it has only, it was only like two weeks into lockdown. I, I just thought I better do better than that. . So I decided to color cuz I missed magic markers. And I started coloring in adult coloring books. And then I realized I hated all the images. So then I decided to make my own coloring book. And that's why I started using family photos. So I was initially, because I was using magic marker, I was trying to find pictures that would be fun to color in. And then I would create the drawing and blow it up and color it in. And then I realized I can do more than that. So then I started to make them bigger and color them in with magic markers. And then I started running out of ink. So then I started using the ink from the magic markers instead of the markers I would paint with them, which is what you have and my husband, who's an amazing painter, Robert Russell, he was like, you should just be painting

Moby (00:19:34):

<Laugh> as opposed to, as opposed to cracking open magic markers,

Lisa Edelstein (00:19:37):

Why are you struggling like this? So then I I decided to try watercolor cuz it was good on paper and it moved in a similar way to ink at least the way I use it. And so my mom's neighbor knows how to use watercolors. So she taught me like actually how to use watercolor. Cause I didn't know how to mix colors with watercolor, which is different from what Robert does with oil painting, which is like, you scoop a bunch of oil and then you use a spatula knife and you mix things. Watercolor you like take a little watercolor, put it on a pallet, take the other color, put it on the pallet, mix it on the pallet. So it's just like learning the technical stuff of so I had about a 20 minute lesson and then I just went to town

Moby (00:20:17):

<Laugh>. So now that we're talking about painting. Yeah. The whole reason Lindsay and I wanted to do this episode about creativity is that she and I, and we talked about this with Robert as well, like Lindsay and I have very different relationships to creativity. Like, I similar to you from an early age, have always found like comfort and refuge in creativity. Like the non-creative world is terrifying to me. Yeah. Whereas Lindsay and a lot of our friends find creative expression to be, be incredibly daunting. And we've had a lot of people write to us asking about creativity cuz my experience is like they're, the majority of people on the planet want to be creative and they have these blocks. Mm. So two questions around that. One, when did you first start expressing yourself creatively and was your family encouraging?

Lisa Edelstein (00:21:10):

I'm the third child. My and my brother was a lot to handle. So I think just surviving, I had to express myself creatively, <laugh>. And I think my parents were too exhausted to not support that. I, I think they hoped I would grow out of certain things like wanting to be an actress. But it's funny, there weren't always, it's not my whole creative body that I've always felt comfortable sharing with other people. So acting, performing, dancing, all that stuff was outward drawing, painting any of that kind of stuff that was inward. Like at one point in my life I made all these necklaces and this store wanted to sell them. And halfway to the store in New York, I turned around and went home and gave them all away because I couldn't handle failing at that mode of expression in the way that I could handle for whatever reason. And as an actor you succeed, sometimes you fail, sometimes you have to be able to manage all that. So for me, there has never been a time when I wasn't trying to create something in some way. But not all of it was for other people.

Moby (00:22:12):

Hmm. And so, so your parents almost created sort of like a neutral environment for you? Like, cuz I know a lot of people, like friends of ours, people we know were told at an early age by their parents. And Lindsay, I don't know what your experience was, but like parents were not encouraging, they were actively discouraging.

Lisa Edelstein (00:22:30):

My parents were not like that. I just think that they never thought of it as something you could do as a life.

Moby (00:22:36):

One thing I wanted to say is, as we all know, there are a lot of creative people who express themselves in different media. And sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not. Like, I'm certainly not gonna name names, but like, there's definitely a tradition of like musicians trying to be painters and sometimes it's not so great. You know when I heard that you were painting and I was knew I was going over to your house to see and I was gonna see some of your paintings, I had a moment of like, uhoh is this kind of like when someone asks you to like read their poetry <laugh> and like, you're like, okay, how do I prepare myself to be polite because I'm gonna hate this and I have to be nice. But then I saw your paintings and I was raised by artists, you know, my mom was a painter, a very accomplished oil painter. My grandmother was a watercolor painter. My uncle's a sculptor, my other uncle's a photographer. Wow. So I grew up in like a world of visual art and I saw your painting and I was like, oh, these are really good <laugh>. Which is why I wanted to own one. And I'm, it's not a slight against you that I wasn't expecting them to be good. But it was a really nice surprise to like, to walk into your studio and be like, oh, these are great. And they're not dilettantisch like they're serious and incredibly well executed.

Lisa Edelstein (00:23:52):

Thank you.

Lindsay (00:24:00):

I have a question. Okay. For you, which is, so you go from making these paintings in your house and now you've done some very well received shows. How did you get from doing them in your house to the point where you are now a noted painter? <Laugh>?

Lisa Edelstein (00:24:19):

Well, that's my husband. Like, he, he pushed me to first of all go from the little coloring book I was making to making bigger paintings bigger, bigger, bigger. Because he has a really wonderful career. People come over to see his work and he would just say, Hey, you should go see what Lisa's doing in her room. So I started having these accidental studio visits where I, you know, literally I made 35 paintings during Covid. So I had piles of images. So I felt a little bit, they're all good. I felt like a crazy person where it'd be like just pulling out these massive drawings and paintings that I couldn't hold in one hand. So he started doing that in people who are really great artists. Also started noticing it and being very excited about it. And they started talking about it. And then I got interest from the gallery in New York. And that's how it sort of unfolded. I think I had the advantage of being very close to somebody who was already in the art world. . And thankfully the work that I was doing was work that nobody laughed at <laugh>. Because when you're an actor and you do anything else, as what we were just talking about before, the fear is that you can't overcome the actor part.

Moby (00:25:28):

And when you had the show in New York, was your anxiety different, like qualitatively or quantitatively different than the anxiety you've had around acting or other creative things you've done?

Lisa Edelstein (00:25:40):

The funny thing is, my opening just happened to coincide with this documentary that's being made about the club scene. And they were doing, they were focusing on the artists that came out of that time period. Cuz it was, you know, Basquiat, Keith Harring, Kenny Sharf a lot of really amazing performers. I mean, it was a really powerful time for creatives. . So I had done an interview with them during C O V I D when they were trying to put their documentary together. And then when they found out I was having this show of my paintings, they got very excited and like, well now you're one of the artists that also came out of this time period. So they were shooting a documentary at my opening. So I had the double stress of having an art opening and also having a documentary film crew film my art opening.

Lisa Edelstein (00:26:25):

And I, you know, for all I knew, I mean, once I had a birthday party and 75 people said they were coming in, it was me and my gardener and my parents <laugh> for like two hours cuz everybody was two hours late and that two hours was really awful. <Laugh>. Yeah. So I didn't know what my opening was gonna be like. So I was more stressful. Just, I, I kept the stress to the opening night and not to the career at large. I think by the time we had the opening, I'd already had some writeups about the work and they were very positive. And so I wasn't afraid anymore of being an actor who did some paintings. I was an actor and also a painter.

Moby (00:27:01):

Honestly, in my mind you're sort of like a painter who acts <laugh>. Oh

Lisa Edelstein (00:27:05):

<Laugh>. You know, I

Moby (00:27:06):

Love it. Okay. So I'm looking at my list of stuff I wanted to go over cuz I wrote myself some notes because I am a fancy professional podcast nice interviewer as you are, Lindsay as well. So one thing that I would like to ask both of you is creative blocks for a lot of people who want to express themselves creatively, obviously a huge block are blocks, you know, and some people can never get past them. Yeah. And I'm just wondering, Lisa and also Lindsay, if you guys have like what sort of blocks you encounter, what's the mindset? Like, what's the self-talk around the blocks and how, how you get past them?

Lisa Edelstein (00:27:48):

You know, in the last couple years what's been great is that I've also sold a few scripts. And so I feel like a one-woman-band sometimes in my room where I'm able to shift modes of creativity all in one day. As one gets more frustrating, I can just move on to another. And I think that that's a really interesting trick if you have other things you like to do that exercise your creative brain that aren't result oriented necessarily to allow more playtime for yourself. Cuz I think we get so caught up in the career around the creativity that it can cause a big block. And so if you allow yourself the playtime that got you there to begin with, and if that, that means moving on to something that's completely outside of what you do for a living, but it, it just makes it more fun again. I think that's a really great exercise.

Moby (00:28:42):

Sort of sort of not stop the momentum but just sort of transfer it somewhere else.

Lisa Edelstein (00:28:46):

Well there is no momentum if you have a block, right? , You're, you are al the momentum is already ceased. So in trying to refind it, the, i I ge I guess the idea, the like more esoteric idea would be that it, the river doesn't stop. You've just somehow like fallen onto the bank. And so to get back in, you have to, you have to trick yourself and sometimes that means going down a different path altogether and allowing yourself to have fun with it. And that might help you move back into that mode of being that you're in when you're having fun creating,

New Speaker (00:29:19):

I think losing the fun...

Moby (00:29:19):

Lindsay, oh sorry. I was just gonna ask you if you have thoughts or questions, but you were saying that you had thoughts and I interrupted you

Lisa Edelstein (00:29:25):

<Laugh>,

Moby (00:29:26):

So clearly what I said earlier about being a great professional podcast interviewer, if I've just proven that that's wrong. So Yeah.

Lindsay (00:29:35):

When you were talking about fun, I think that where when I lose the thread of creativity and when my momentum stops is when I lose the threat of the fun. Yeah. Because I think for me at least, and maybe this is true for other people, but I sometimes will get caught up in the, what's the point of me doing this? And then that thought triggers just a downward spiral of slowing down the fun and getting into like, and why would I do anything and why do I even have time for art? Have I done my taxes? Like this very kind of the most unfun spiral

Lisa Edelstein (00:30:12):

<Laugh> Yeah.

Lindsay (00:30:12):

Which completely stops any momentum that I had when I get into the world of the logical when, but when I'm in the world of the fun and making it feel light is when the momentum starts to turn itself back up

Lisa Edelstein (00:30:26):

And Yeah. And allowing learning allowing learning is a big thing. like, now that I've finished that show and I've made a bunch more paintings, but I'm sort of running out of the original resource material, you know, but, but I'm still learning. I'm just learning oil painting. So I'm having to remember that I am still actually very much learning about painting and sometimes I can just make things to see if I can. And that's really, yeah. It's challenging once the outside pressure starts coming in. Yeah. And it's no longer just an in inner experience,

Lindsay (00:31:00):

It changes it a lot. I do. I wonder what you think about this, cuz in the pandemic, I also began painting, but very poorly <laugh>. I don't, I was very bad at it. But I was

Moby (00:31:12):

You did paint some good Marge Simpsons.

Lindsay (00:31:13):

I painted Marge Simpsons, I'll say. That was some of my best work. <Laugh>. I painted Marge Simpson High on drugs, <laugh>. And it was maybe the best thing I ever did. Also Beavis and Butthead. I'm really good at <laugh>. I painted those guys.

Moby (00:31:29):

So going back to our earlier conversation about the artist has a tabula ra sa <laugh> and what do they choose to bring into the world? It's like you, Lisa, do these very psychological sort of like cultural zeitgeist inspired paintings and <laugh> Lindsays paints Marge Simpson on drugs, <laugh>.

Lisa Edelstein (00:31:48):

Well, I mean, what I paint is an extension of what I've been doing, which is very narrative, right? I have a narrative brain, I like stories, so I like images that tell stories. So it was a straight line. So maybe she's more about the Simpsons

Moby (00:32:01):

And I'm, I'm not criticizing, I mean I, I Simpson, I love your Marge Simpson on drugs, paintings.

Lindsay (00:32:07):

It was memorable to you. Clearly. Yeah. <Laugh>. But what I was going to say is I heard from other painters that I was telling like "I'm painting Beavis!" They would be like, "Well, are you taking classes? Are you learning?" And I was like, "eh, I'm just gonna express, I'm just doing this to express my feelings about, you know, mid nineties cartoon obsessions of mine" <laugh>. But there were a lot of people that were like, if you're not going to like, go through the courses and learn how to do it and learn the theory and learn all of it, then there's no point in doing it. No.

Lisa Edelstein (00:32:36):

But that's no fun.

Lindsay (00:32:37):

But that, that's what I said, said, I was like, I'm having fun doing my silly stuff that just fun for myself. You saying

Lisa Edelstein (00:32:42):

You have fun doing your silly stuff. I didn't do any of that. Yeah.

Moby (00:32:44):

I mean, I mean, craft is great, but like the 20th century has gone to either, I mean, pre 20th century, the focus was all craft. You know, you had to be a, like if you're doing figurative work, which pretty much only exists, you know, that's all there was

Lisa Edelstein (00:32:57):

But you still had to be interested in it and you still, it still had to be fun to you and engaging. So like, I think that has to be where you start. is like, oh, I really like doing this. And then you're like, Hey, how come I can't get this color? And then you go, you type in something on the internet and somebody's gotta a video and they show you how to mix that color. And then you think, oh, that's really interesting. And then you watch their whole, their whole course and you learn something about underpainting and oil painting, which is something I learned by watching something on the internet. And it's like, then I walk away from that because that's boring. I don't wanna be in class. And then I practice some more because that's fun. So I don't know. I don't think I, I think the joy has to come before the class.

Lindsay (00:33:36):

Yeah. I also think there's some, like, sometimes it helps to know how to do the thing that you see in your brain that you don't know how to get out on a piece of paper. Yeah. And that's when you go and you watch the video figure it out. Yeah.

Lisa Edelstein (00:33:46):

Yeah. But I think, you know, back when, in the time period you're talking about people learned by working for the great artists, they, they worked in their studios, they painted for them. They learned the tricks-of-the-trade that were this trade-secrets of whatever painting house they were working at and like, but the joy is of painting and the, the ability to see that way is what got them there to begin with.

Moby (00:34:09):

Yeah. I mean it, it, whether it's music, whether it's painting is like, is something it's too rigid and dogmatic. It's not interesting. It's not interesting for the artist. It's not interesting for the person listening or watching. But if something is just freeform mess, I mean, Lisa, I'm sure we've all experienced that, but especially New York in the eighties, <laugh>, there was a lot of undisciplined freeform mess. Like yeah. You'd go to a gallery and there'd be like a naked guy masturbating in the corner while like some chicken bones and old milk bottles were scattered around him. You're like, "okay, that's interesting. But like, maybe a little bit of craft would've gone <laugh> served to self well", but then at the same time, Lindsay, what you're describing, like people who are like only about formulaic perfect draftsmanship. And representation. Like that's tedious too. It's like finding the best.

Lisa Edelstein (00:34:57):

Unless you love that. Unless you love that. That's really true. Yeah. Because there are really, really amazing painters that aren't amazing artists. They're not interesting artists, but they're incredible at taking what they see and putting it in paint

Lindsay (00:35:10):

These technical skills.

Lisa Edelstein (00:35:11):

Yeah. Like, and, and that all has validity. It's different, different worlds. It can, it all exists at the same time. And you can learn from those people, but you don't have to be those people.

Moby (00:35:22):

And when you can combine the two, you know, I mean you think of like, I mean the greatest artists, the greatest musicians, the greatest everyone. It's like finding, like having the background in craft, having studied whatever your form of creative discipline is, but then combining it with that spirit of creativity and experimentation. You know, the greatest photographers, the greatest artists, I mean even Marcel Duchamp, he was a great painter before he kind of threw it all away to be experimental. Right. His experimentation was informed by his more formal education.

Lisa Edelstein (00:35:53):

Robert's formal had a very formal education and no one ever taught 'em how to paint at either school. They were never teaching actual painting.

Moby (00:36:02):

It was all theory.

New Speaker (00:36:02):

It was all theory. So it was all about what is the conversation that you're in within the world. And then it was up to you to learn how to paint. There were very few painters in the program.

Moby (00:36:11):

A friend of mine, I forget, was it either the film school at NYU or somewhere where basically for the first three years, a friend of mine was like not allowed to touch a camera. It was like discussion of film theory. And I was like, "you know, cameras are fun. Like just take a camera and go out and start shooting stuff and see what happens." Like,

Lisa Edelstein (00:36:28):

Right. But back in those days it was only film cameras and it was very hard to make your own movies cuz it's hard to get the equipment. But yeah, it is, it's also, and I could not have done that kind of education. I'm not good sitting in class <laugh>. I can't, I hate listening to lectures. Even watching that one class just figure out how to do an underpainting <laugh>. I'm like at home and I'm like, ugh. Yeah. Don't do well. I need to be doing something.

Moby (00:36:54):

Okay. So I have a question. That I wanted to, was the first question I wanted to ask. But it would've been weird if we hadn't sort of talked about a degree of context beforehand is the painting that I showed Lindsay yesterday , the one, the Lisa Edelstein that is in my possession. <Laugh> is, I mean, you know it cuz you painted it. But I'm gonna describe it to our listening audience. <Laugh>. So there are four people in the painting. It's a, a mom in a pink house dress. And in the background there's a little stove and then there's a kid in the foreground. And then there's a young, what we assume is a girl in a, a dress. And then there's a, a fan blowing on them, making me assume it might probably summertime. And then there's a little container of Ajax, and then there is a yellow tub filled with water and a child face down in the tub of water.

Lindsay (00:37:52):

A baby. Not just a child, a baby. And a small, small an with a full head of hair,

Lisa Edelstein (00:37:56):

A newborn infant.

Moby (00:37:58):

And so I Am.

Lindsay (00:38:00):

You!

New Speaker (00:38:01):

That's you?

Lisa Edelstein (00:38:02):

That's me.

Moby (00:38:03):

Okay. So,

Lisa Edelstein (00:38:04):

So I survived. I survived.

Moby (00:38:05):

That actually makes it this little easier to talk about <laugh> because the picture, when I first looked at it, I was like, "oh my God, this is the darkest painting I've ever seen. It's a mom drowning a baby"

Lisa Edelstein (00:38:21):

In Front of her other children,

Moby (00:38:22):

In front of the other children in a tub full of Ajax water <laugh>. And my, so, but I was like if I bring that up, like, are we gonna get in trouble? Like, are we, like, is this gonna be the part

Lisa Edelstein (00:38:32):

It's not in infanticide.

Moby (00:38:33):

Okay. So good. So you, you were the child.

Lisa Edelstein (00:38:36):

Yeah. So I made it

Moby (00:38:37):

Clearly you survived <laugh>. I made it. By the way, some of my, I don't know, were you ever washed in a tub like that?

Lindsay (00:38:42):

I don't know. Oh. Think I was washed in a sink at some point

Moby (00:38:46):

because on my early pictures, like me in the basement of the apartment in Harlem where I, I lived when I was really young, my mom washing me in a tub while a bunch of animals looked on. But there were no pictures.

Lindsay (00:38:55):

Not a bathtub. Bathtub.

Moby (00:38:56):

Like a, like a like little rubber. Rubber, like a Rubbermaid plastic tub. Like this one in the painting. So when you painted this, were you aware that the viewer might interpret it as a as infanticide?

Lisa Edelstein (00:39:12):

Yes.

Moby (00:39:12):

Okay. Yeah.

Lisa Edelstein (00:39:14):

I love pictures that leave question marks. I love, oh, I love photos. We don't have photos like this anymore because we're also used to being photographed. We're really camera savvy. We're really aware that it could end up on the internet forever. . So it's really hard to capture real life in the way we remember it and not in the way we wish we remembered it. . So we're constantly filtering and retelling our stories nowadays with cameras. And back then there were a lot of accidental photographs that you kept because you paid for it. It took long time to get it developed. Came in an envelope, came with all the negatives. And even if you didn't like it, you would still keep it in the envelope.

Moby (00:39:56):

Oh. It was magic. I mean, it was like you had spent a lot of time and money making those photos. Like the snapshots on the Instamatic. But like, when it showed up, you're like, wow, we have a photo, we need to save this. Like Yeah. You would never th the only time you'd throw away a photo is if it was black.

Lisa Edelstein (00:40:10):

Yeah, exactly.

Moby (00:40:11):

You came back and you couldn't see anything. But otherwise you're like, even if it's a picture of a thumb, you're like, well that's a photo I for.

Lisa Edelstein (00:40:16):

Yeah. I can see the thing behind the thumb just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I have a couple of pictures that have thumbs in it that I'm, I might paint <laugh>. <Laugh>.

Moby (00:40:24):

So this picture and because this is the one obviously of all I, I've seen a lot of your paintings. But this one, cuz I own it, I've spent a decent amount of time looking at it. And like that darkness also Ajax. Like Ajax is. Like powdered bleach, like it's so toxic. And the fact that it's right next to this child who has faced you

Lisa Edelstein (00:40:43):

And also water next to an electric fan. Like all of it is problematic.

Moby (00:40:48):

Yeah. So,

Lisa Edelstein (00:40:49):

Yeah.

Moby (00:40:50):

That's why like, I mean I love all of your paintings but this one I was like, I really want this one <laugh> The darkness in it. And okay, so good. So I didn't know if you were like, oh I just like the picture and I'm wanting to paint it it, but you're fully, I

Lisa Edelstein (00:41:02):

Yeah. I'm fully aware of story. , I love story. And so that's what I mean where I'm sort of running out of material because from my own collection of photographs, because even though there's a lot of photographs, there's not a lot of story in the photographs. There's still a lot of like smile and pose. Some of the, some of the smiley ones I still like because there's something a little psychotic about the smiling , like you can see people are trying to overcome something else and smile for the camera . But but I'm it's, I'm quite selective about the images that I pick.

Moby (00:41:33):

I assume so .I just wanted to hear you describe it <laugh>.

Lisa Edelstein (00:41:38):

And I love that it's a blink because that's what most of those photos look like. It's transportive because we don't have those pictures anymore. Even, even when we take pictures now we can live-photo it so that you get rid of the blink. Like it just doesn't,

Lindsay (00:41:52):

Exactly. Or you just delete it because you took 40 of them.

Lisa Edelstein (00:41:54):

Yeah. There's something,

Lindsay (00:41:56):

Or or 50 if you're me, <laugh>,

Lisa Edelstein (00:41:57):

There's something about that awkwardness that I think people find relaxing when they see those kinds of images. Mm-Hmm

Lindsay (00:42:04):

<Affirmative> the imperfectness of them.

Lisa Edelstein (00:42:05):

Yeah. Like there's, sure, there's something about the time period cuz a lot of it's sixties and seventies, some of it's eighties, but it's not about nostalgia for the wallpaper or the pants or the kind of jacket. . It's more,

Moby (00:42:19):

Or to be fair, some of the wallpaper pants and jackets. Yes. And your paintings are great. Like there's.

Lisa Edelstein (00:42:24):

Well thank you.

Moby (00:42:25):

There's some solid wallpaper.

Lisa Edelstein (00:42:26):

Especially, well, especially cuz I was starting with magic marker. It really was only interesting to do if there was a lot of pattern because I couldn't fill up large spaces with a single color very easily with magic marker. And then when I moved to ink, I could do like, like your painting, I could, I could move through bigger spaces. I could do the stove, I could do the tub. I couldn't do that with magic marker. But then when I moved to watercolor, I could do both. It was just, so, it's just been exciting. And now oil painting, I, I have all options are available to me so it'll be interesting. But but yes. So the nostalgia of those images is in there, but it's more about the honesty of those kinds of images that we don't have anymore.

Moby (00:43:04):

And, and there is, by the way, I wanted to mention one thing. Having been raised in a house with oil painters because I deeply care about you and Robert

Lisa Edelstein (00:43:15):

We're using non-toxic chemicals.

Moby (00:43:19):

Okay. Cuz the oil paints, I mean some of them like the cadmium whites and the stuff is like, they're so toxic. Like Robert's studio scares me a little bit cause it's not as well ventilated as I would like it to be.

Lisa Edelstein (00:43:29):

I know, I know. So, and the other problem with painting of any kind is the amount of animal parts that are in a lot of the materials Yeah. That you wanna use. And so

Lindsay (00:43:40):

Like in the brushes,

Lisa Edelstein (00:43:40):

The brush, the paper, I, I was like, I I realized that some of the paper was made with bone because they used gelatin to harden the cotton. So I then I had to like research finding, didn't know that non gelatin paper.

Moby (00:43:56):

A friend, a friend of mine is an oil painter. He's clearly not a vegan when he I guess finishes the paintings, he does a layer of rabbit skin glue.

Lisa Edelstein (00:44:05):

Oh, I know. It's

Lindsay (00:44:06):

Why Just why?

Lisa Edelstein (00:44:07):

Because apparently that's because that's the old way of doing it.

Moby (00:44:09):

He, he studied with the, like with these masters and that's the way they used to do it four or five hundred years ago.

Lisa Edelstein (00:44:14):

I, I I had a friend who would make her own glue from rabbit. It's so disgusting. It's so gross and so unnecessary. So I mean you can get brushes that are made with cat.

Lindsay (00:44:24):

Cat?

Lisa Edelstein (00:44:25):

Yes. With squirrel, with mink. you have to just really, you have to do your research paint. Not all paints come in a way that's vegan. So you have to be really careful when you're looking for watercolor or oil paints.

Moby (00:44:50):

There is a subtext to your work that's also incredibly powerful that because you're so smart and aware of everything that you're doing is the post World War II suburban Jewish experience.

Lisa Edelstein (00:45:04):

Right. Very much a part of it. For sure. I, I think well first of all, that is my experience, so I can't avoid it. And I think we decided, especially in the show in New York to embrace it and make it part of the conversation. I know you were very affected by that. Cuz every time I sent a picture of one of the paintings to our group text Moby would talk about the Holocaust <laugh> because it is very much part of our story. You, you can't avoid it. These are all people who lost their whole families, you know , whether or not they were in Europe at the time or they had came here before. And I think that's very much part of the texture of being Jewish. And I don't see a lot of that representation in the arts, in visual arts in general. So it became a sort of powerful thing just to have yamakas present in a painting. Yeah. Even though it's the honest thing. There were yamaka present when I grew up. The men were yamaka. So yeah. We, in fact we had a whole panel of it at the show of Jewish representation in visual arts.

Moby (00:46:03):

Because it's especially fascinating like Lindsay, if you get the chance to see all the paintings in one place, you realize there is this recurring subtext of like, "oh, this is suburban New Jersey. In the sixties, seventies, eighties." But like the subtext is like, these are the survivors. , you know, especially the older people and they're doing like these at times, very banal suburban things. Yeah. Like passing a drink from one person to another or something. But that weighty subtext is so omnipresent. And

Lisa Edelstein (00:46:36):

I think because that generation of people, like again, they're another generation back, they had less exposure to cameras. So you got, they didn't need to smile all the time. , they weren't trying to filter your memory of them. They just were having their experience. So you, you have dower faces, you have just people eating at a dinner party. <Laugh> not smiling even though there're considerings a camera.

Lindsay (00:47:03):

Yeah. Cuz you don't think, you think these pictures are just gonna be within the family and who cares

Lisa Edelstein (00:47:08):

Or they're not thinking about you don't

Lindsay (00:47:09):

Think about that. And now of course, like you said earlier, then suddenly it's on the internet and living forever. Right. That wasn't on anyone's mind.

Lisa Edelstein (00:47:16):

And the funny thing for me was, you know, a lot of these people are gone and some of them might know who they are and some of them, I don't even know who they are. There's one of my grandfather that I really love. It's a, it's one of the really big ones with all the patterns. His jacket has a pattern and the wallpaper has a pattern and the background has a pattern. But what I love about it is that it's probably in the late seventies, maybe mid seventies, he had Alzheimer's by the mid eighties. And I know that about him. He doesn't know that about him when this picture is taken and in the picture he's reaching for something just like, I only know this because I am paying such minute detail to gesture. And some of these photos are very blurry and I'm blowing them up really large.

Lisa Edelstein (00:48:03):

So I, I'm doing like investigations on what, what these pixelated images actually are. And I realize he's reaching into his inner jacket pocket and he looks like he lost something. And I don't know if that was the beginning of his Alzheimer's. Mm-Hmm. I don't know what he thought he lost, but he's in such a moment of inner private panic about something in this chaotic image. And I felt like it felt almost intrusive to have this moment with him because he didn't do it for me. And I'm now making it a performance in a way. it also made me feel like a little witchy because I knew his future. You know, I know the future of this man who's having this moment of panic. And it also feels really intimate. Like I'm having these very private personal moments with people that I knew and loved or don't even know. And I, and I, and throughout the process I have been incredibly grateful that my parents are still alive because like I'm doing so many of their images when they were young. It's nice to be able to turn around and like, have them still to look at and talk to because, yeah. Yeah. So there's something about that process that is, is very moving.

Moby (00:49:16):

And it's on one hand they're so specific, but there's the universality as well. Like, there's the existential context, you know? Right. That makes them relatable, you know?

Lisa Edelstein (00:49:27):

So I think because they're not posed, those stories are human stories. So you recognize a person having a moment and you're not, it's not about who that person is and how they're related to the painter.

Moby (00:49:37):

Lisa by the way, just one last thing is when we've been doing interviews with people, for the most part, with friendships, you rarely sit down and have like a thoughtful, at least, I don't. Like most of my conversations, like with Robert are

Lisa Edelstein (00:49:51):

About butts and peanut butter,

Moby (00:49:53):

About butts and peanut butter <laugh>, you know, like, and, and you know, occasionally old punk rock records. And when we sat down with Robert and had the conversation with him, it was also so nice to see a side of someone that is very, you know, like the really thoughtful side that we all have, that you actually rarely get to experience socializing. So thank you for coming over and talking to us about painting and creativity, and

Lisa Edelstein (00:50:19):

Thanks for asking

Moby (00:50:19):

And your hot husband and

Lisa Edelstein (00:50:21):

<Laugh>. That was really fun.

Moby (00:50:22):

Lindsay, do you have any

Lindsay (00:50:23):

That was so well, yeah, I, I'm taking away a lot from this conversation with you,

Lisa Edelstein (00:50:27):

Lisa. Oh, I love that.

Lindsay (00:50:28):

Because I feel like you, you said something about how when you were younger, how you used this, any sort of creative output as a coping mechanism in a lot of ways, and how now I feel like it's become this language of your life of creative output is how you relate to the world around you

Lisa Edelstein (00:50:50):

And, and still a coping mechanism, for sure. So like, being blocked or not knowing which way to go in a moment is very painful, because, because that is my, that is how I move through the world.

Lindsay (00:51:02):

I think a lot of people never build good coping mechanisms, coping mechanisms that work or just any, you know what I mean? People become toxic in ways because they're trying to figure out some, some form of soothing. Yeah. You know, and I think it's really beautiful that you manage to create a coping mechanism that has worked for you, but also made so many other people's lives so much better. It's such a beautiful thing and I think it's a great perspective shift for me too, to think of ways that I can soothe myself and make my own life better, while also creating something that could be an offering that makes someone else's day a little brighter.

Lisa Edelstein (00:51:46):

I love it. Thank you.

Moby (00:51:47):

And then lastly, when people want to see your work, where can they do? So is there like an online place where people

Lisa Edelstein (00:51:54):

Can well, SFA. S as in Sam, F as in Frank, A as in Apple, SFA advisory still has a viewing room with my show that was just up in New York. And then I have a homepage that can link to all a lot of articles and images as well. But I don't have an art specific site up as of yet. My Instagram has some of my paintings on it.

Moby (00:52:17):

Okay. Well, I strongly encourage and everyone is listening to go look at your art and especially if you can see it in person, cuz it is, again, not to sound like too much of a dick, but I'm sort of a, an art snob, having been raised by painters, et cetera, <affirmative> and your paintings are very special.

Lisa Edelstein (00:52:31):

Thank you.

Moby (00:52:31):

So thank you for coming on and talking to us.

Lisa Edelstein (00:52:34):

Thank you.

Lindsay (00:52:44):

I am so happy that we had that conversation with Lisa. I feel actually genuinely inspired and excited by talking to her.

Moby (00:52:53):

Well, one of the things I've realized is that with a lot of friends, you rarely get the chance to sit down and have in-depth serious conversations you know, most of my friendships, like when I do meet up with them in person, the conversations tend to be very just like fun, ironic, lighthearted. And with Lisa, I've known Lisa forever and I've never really talked to her about her history and her creative process. So apart from the fact that she was a perfect person to talk to about creativity, I'm just really happy that I got to hear my friend tell me her story.

Lindsay (00:53:27):

Yeah. I mean, it's so true that when you go to a dinner or go to a party sitting down and being able to actually probe and ask those questions, you don't really get that opportunity to really focus on somebody like that. It's such a fun thing to be able to do.

Moby (00:53:42):

So Lindsay

Lindsay (00:53:43):

mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Yes, Moby?

Moby (00:53:44):

Now, one of the reasons we wanted to talk about creativity is because you for a while have mentioned that you've at times been frustrated with your own creativity and creative process how not to turn this into a therapy session. But how are you, how are you feeling these days?

Lindsay (00:54:04):

Well, yeah, I struggle, I struggle hard with creative blocks that are emotional and I know it because I, and like I said, when we were talking to Lisa, I have a lot of, what's the point? And there's probably something more important I should be doing, like balancing a checkbook or checking my credit card debt or something, you know, that makes me even sadder. So that's a, that's something that I definitely battle, but how I'm feeling about it right now, I feel like I sometimes can catch these glimpses of like the fun excitement I'm making, I'm doing, but they're very fleeting for me. It's still something that I'm battling.

Moby (00:54:46):

And did anything Lisa say, or were there any parts of the conversation that gave you any more insight into your own creativity?

Lindsay (00:54:54):

Yeah, so sometimes I have this feeling about myself that when I'm focusing on my writing or my making of whatever my thing is, sometimes it feels selfish. Like I should be doing something annoying that I've been putting off or something for someone else, or some, you know, like I feel like my putting time and energy into my own art is, is not a very giving thing to do. But when we were talking to her, I was like, oh, she's viewing this as a form of self-care. And I do believe that any time and energy you put into yourself and your self-care and your own mental health and wellbeing benefits those around you immeasurably.

Moby (00:55:34):

I mean, something I was taught when I first got sober and I started going to aa exactly what you're saying, which is that basically self-care is a form of service. Yes. Like, I can't be available to anyone else. I can't be a good advocate for animals. I can't be a good activist if I'm not taking care of myself. And it's hard because like, that sounds selfish. Mm-Hmm.

Lindsay (00:56:01):

<Affirmative>,

Moby (00:56:01):

But at the same time, you know, and I know and I assume people listening, we all know people who've burned out. Like I know tons of animal rights activists who burned out and as a result are no good to themselves. They're no, and they're no good to animals. Yeah. So it's like, it's, it really is a paradox that sometimes being selfish is a form of altruism. Yes. If it makes you more available to, you know, work on the causes that you care about.

Lindsay (00:56:28):

Yes. And there's also part of me that has guilt around it where if the thing I'm doing doesn't directly connect to me doing something that assists in my very basic survival, it feels wrong. You know, like, I mean something that I'm not doing that is for a work thing or to help myself make money somehow, or to clean a space that is dirty or something like that, to take time away from that to do it feels, I feel guilt, I have guilt about it sometimes.

Moby (00:57:00):

So it's interesting. But while you're saying this, and again, I know podcasts are not visual, but sitting behind you on the couch is Bagel, <laugh> and Bagel, you know, I, I see her as being arguably the smartest person on the planet. and her entire life is just sort of celebrating , you know, just celebrating the joy of existence. Yes. Celebrating the fact that she has been gifted with life. , for example. It's one of the reasons, like, I go hiking a lot and I try to only go hiking in places where there aren't humans. Cause I love hiking and just seeing nature. And to me it's, it's connect. Not only is it good exercise, but it's also connecting what with whatever the source of existence might be. You know, seeing the world, and again, I don't want, I don't wanna use the word God necessarily, but it's like being reminded of the, the weird joy of creation.

Moby (00:57:55):

. And that ideally has to, I think, inform everything that we do. It's one of the reasons why it's so important to put down a screen, to leave a city, to le you know, to like leave the, the world of humans and be reminded of the broader context of life. We look at animals like, you know, Bagel is over there just living in a state of existence and I don't think she would ever feel selfish because she's in touch with whatever the nature of existence might be. And I'm completely understand, like I know that feeling of selfishness, like I should do more for animals. I should do more to benefit the world. But as we were saying, like sometimes reminding yourself of the context, reminding yourself of, of bigger purpose informs service in ways that we might not even be aware of.

Lindsay (00:58:54):

Yes.

New Speaker (00:58:54):

Unless that just sounds like justification or rationalization. I don't know.

Lindsay (00:58:58):

No, I mean, I do believe that when you are creating art or expressing yourself artistically, you are reaching parts of your brain, parts of your consciousness that are just sitting there dormant. If you are watching TV or

Moby (00:59:19):

Oh wait in a stop for a second.

Lindsay (00:59:20):

What?

Moby (00:59:22):

How dare you malign television.

Lindsay (00:59:23):

I know you love television.

New Speaker (00:59:24):

I like television a lot.

Lindsay (00:59:26):

I know you love,

Moby (00:59:26):

I will not sit here casually <laugh> Well you malign television as Homer Simpson called it like friend, mother secret lover

Lindsay (00:59:37):

<Laugh> warm blanket of cheese. Vegan cheese. That's what they called it on my favorite show, Dinosaurs

Moby (00:59:43):

A warm blanket of vegan cheese.

Lindsay (00:59:44):

Yeah. Watching tv it was like getting wrapped in a warm blanket of cheese. So no, I do love television, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying, when you are absorbing, only absorbing the world around you and never expressing your own experience of it, I think that the, you get to truly exist and feel your existence when you express your perspective artistically.

Moby (01:00:09):

I, yeah, I agree. <Laugh>. speaking of which do you wanna make up a song?

Lindsay (01:00:16):

Yeah.

Moby (01:00:17):

Because you seem to like that.

Lindsay (01:00:19):

Oh, I sure do love it. But here's the thing is that when I was doing the open tuning, I got so obsessed with the open tuning that I forgot that we were even supposed to sing a song.

Moby (01:00:35):

Okay. That's fine.

Lindsay (01:00:37):

Do you wanna play the banjo again or do you wanna play the guitar?

Lindsay (01:00:43):

Or do you want me to just bang on a chair?

Moby (01:00:46):

You know what you could do is you can actually, I'm gonna, okay. We're gonna do something even more interesting. Okay. At least I think it's interesting is you're gonna play, you're gonna play the guitar like a percussive, like a melodic, percussive instrument.

Lindsay (01:01:00):

Okay.

Moby (01:01:01):

We'll see how it goes.

Lindsay (01:01:01):

I don't really know what that means, but let's give it a try. Okay.

Moby (01:01:05):

Okay. So I've handed you the guitar and the guitar as last time. It's an open tuning in D. So my suggestion last time you were just sort of strumming the open tuning.

Both (01:01:16):

<<strumms music>>

Moby (01:01:40):

That sounds nice, doesn't it?

Lindsay (01:01:43):

I'm loving this so much. We're really jamming. Okay.

Moby (01:01:46):

<Laugh>. So for those of you at home, Lindsay is playing the guitar with an open tuning D and she's, it's sitting on her lap and she's just sort of banging on it, banging on the strings and banging on the guitar. And I'm playing the weird banjo. Should we have a, should we, I mean, it sounds so pretty. I almost don't want to do vocals on top

Lindsay (01:02:33):

Of it. I can't do anything other than what I'm doing. Even try to talk right now, I'm losing it.

Moby (01:02:37):

You're doing great.

Moby (01:02:50):

<sings> Well we had a little nice lunch with our friend Lisa and we talked about creative stuff, stuff and Bagel got scared for a second cause she picked her up too fast. And Bagel gets scared when someone picks her up too fast, but it's not really that scared. Here's a Bagel. I kind of wish I didn't have to make up lyrics cuz <laugh>, the music is so nice. I feel like I'm ruining it by coming up with my ridiculous... <strums more>.

Moby (01:03:48):

Okay. I guess that's another episode of Moby Pod <laugh>.

Lindsay (01:03:53):

Yep. I guess so. Thank you so much.

Moby (01:03:55):

Why am I the one that has to come up with lyrics?

Lindsay (01:03:57):

Well, because I can't, I can come up with lyrics when, when that's the only thing I'm thinking

Moby (01:04:02):

Of. Okay. So I get, so, so if you're gonna come up with lyrics, I would play guitar or something and then you would come up with lyrics.

Lindsay (01:04:09):

Yeah.

Moby (01:04:09):

Cause my, I'm just the thought of like, the things that I come up with lyrically for these made-up songs. It's just so embarrassing. <Laugh>.

Lindsay (01:04:16):

No, I don't think it's embarrassing. I just, I really can't do two things at once musically. Other than play. I can play piano and come up with stuff, but other stuff I can't do. It's very foreign to me. You wanna play us out? I'm gonna do the outro.

Moby (01:04:34):

Okay. You can also just like, even like with the guitar, just like one finger, just brer... Like it's, it's it's effort. It should be like.

Lindsay (01:04:42):

<strums>

Moby (01:04:43):

Yeah. Just that. And you're gonna talk us out?

Lindsay (01:04:47):

Yep. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Moby Pod. Thanks to Lisa Edelstein for just being an amazing human being and sitting with us and sharing her experience with us. Thanks to Bagel for sleeping so gently on that pillow over there. If you have any questions that you want us to answer on the pod, please email us at mobypod@moby.com. And I wanna thank Jonathan Nesvadba for editing and doing the music production on Moby Pod. And thanks to Human Content for getting this podcast into your device. We'll see you in two weeks.

Moby (01:05:37):

In two weeks, right?

Lindsay (01:05:37):

Two weeks. Yes. Thank you so much. Fairest well.