Moby (00:00:11):

Hi, Lindsay. Hi, Moby. So you had an idea.

Lindsay (00:00:15):

I had one idea,

Moby (00:00:16):

<laugh>, and I'm intrigued by this idea and trying to figure out in my tiny old-person brain how best to execute your idea.

Lindsay (00:00:27):

Yes. So, just a little highly necessary background is, I was saying to Moby, should I say something about the Sizzle thing that we, the, the song I wrote for that? Sure. And how you helped me. So we were working on a television idea, which any, um, you know, studio executives out there that wanna buy a really cool unscripted show, you just hit me up <laugh>. But, um, the sh in the, in the Sizzle, we had to write a song and Moby was like, why don't you write a song? And I was like, I never wrote a song before. And he was like, eh, you'll figure it out. And so then I had to figure out how to write a song. And it took a lot of work and a lot of me being like, am I doing it right? And Moby really helped me to figure out what to do.

Lindsay (00:01:08):

Um, and in the process I got to kind of see his approach to songwriting, because I've known Moby for a long time. I'm obviously very familiar with your work as a musician, but hearing you talk about the theory of how a song is created gave me a really beautiful insight into the way that you approach songwriting and song creation. And I thought for the sake of the podcast, and because I feel like it was a really cool thing I got to witness as your friend, that I thought it would be really fun for us to try to write a song right now, fresh as a daisy. Something we never thought of before. But here's my idea. We write a song with your guitar and we just come up with some words and then you can go away and make it magical and beautiful and then bring it back and explain to us what you did.

Moby (00:01:55):

And maybe add more to it then, and

Lindsay (00:01:56):

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Moby (00:01:58):

Okay, great. So I, I did something similar once, um, Bob Boilen, who is a man who started the NPR Tiny Desk Concerts,

Lindsay (00:02:06):

No Big Deal.

Moby (00:02:07):

He had this idea, oh, maybe even like 12 or 13 years ago, of bringing people in, showing them a photograph and having them write a song from scratch around the photograph. Whoa. And the, the only two people that I know who did it were me and the guy from the Magnetic Fields. And I did it with my friend Kelly Scarr. And the song we came up with was really good. I don't know where it is. I mean, I'm, I say that hopefully objectively and relatively modestly, but like, the song was actually surprisingly good for a song that was written and recorded and mixed and finished in about a day and a half. . But that was, that was sort of being filmed. We weren't, we weren't really talking about the process too much. Like we talked about it afterwards, Bob interviewed us, but this is gonna be different because we're sort of in real time writing and recording a song. . And if I sound hesitant, it's cuz I'm still trying to figure out how this is gonna work. <laugh>. But there's also, the wonderful thing about recording and podcasts is if it's terrible, we don't have to share it with anyone. We can

Lindsay (00:03:14):

Keep it all to ourselves. So

Moby (00:03:16):

There's, there's possibility. No one will ever hear this because there's a possibility that this just will take off like a lead balloon. Do you know the origin of the band Led Zeppelin is when they first started, they got a terrible review and someone said it like, took off like a lead zeppelin, get it like l e a, but it was l e a d Zeppelin, like a Zeppelin made out of lead. And apparently Jimmy Page thought this was so funny that he decided that was gonna be the name of the band, but they got rid of the A and Led Zeppelin cuz they thought it looked cooler.

Lindsay (00:03:45):

This leads me to my first question. Is that guitar tuned? Ooh.

Moby (00:03:50):

I mean, it could be better, but

Lindsay (00:03:52):

When you were writing a song, do you start with a music or do you start with a, a a a word.

Moby (00:04:01):

Every song starts differently. Okay. Sometimes it starts with lyrics, sometimes it starts with a sample. Sometimes it starts with guitar, with bass, with drums, with piano, with electric, piano with synthesizers. Like every song starts different. And one thing that I have in common with Martin from Depeche Mode , is most of Depeche Mode songs are actually written very traditionally on acoustic guitar. But then when they record them, they get rid of the acoustic guitar to make that all electronic and fancy. Maybe that's

Lindsay (00:04:32):

What we should do.

Moby (00:04:33):

We could do that. That sounds fun. I mean, some songs like if you were to try and do like a country western song and get rid of the acoustic guitar, that would be tricky. Great. So now here's the question. Yes.

Lindsay (00:04:45):

The

Moby (00:04:45):

Big question. What type of song do we wanna write? I

Lindsay (00:04:49):

Think this is something you taught me when I was writing in that song for the show idea, was to keep it simple,

Moby (00:04:57):

Keep it simple as a given, I think

Lindsay (00:04:59):

To keep it as simple as possible and just do some sort of emotional simple journey. Okay.

Moby (00:05:08):

Well we need to do this with a click track. Okay, great. So that way I can go back and if there are any, if there's anything we come up with that we want to use, I can always go back and work it into the final song. Okay. We'll write the song. I've picked the BPM of 110 beats per minute.

Lindsay (00:05:24):

Okay. Why did you pick that one? Uh,

Moby (00:05:26):

It's right in the middle. Like, for example, most dance music is around 124 beats per minute. Hip hop would, well, it depends on what type of hip hop, but hip hop traditionally used to be around like 95 beats per minute. Uh, this, so for pe, for people who don't know BPMs, so 110 beats per minute is 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4. And that could be, you know, so it's a rock song can also be, so it's a disco song, uh, or so, so the BPM doesn't determine the genre necessarily. Those were all 110 beats per minute. So we had disco, we had country, we had rock blues. It can be anything great.

Lindsay (00:06:34):

Okay.

Moby (00:06:34):

That's amazing. Even just like a good straightforward, like nice, simple, pretty indie rock style accord progression. I liked

Lindsay (00:06:52):

That a lot.

Moby (00:06:53):

Okay. So earlier we were talking about what type of song to make . And the question, it's almost like doing search criteria for one of those music libraries. So the first question, happy or sad or not happy. Okay. So happy. Okay.

Lindsay (00:07:08):

Only because I'm playing against type.

Moby (00:07:10):

Okay. So as

Lindsay (00:07:11):

A, as a pretty generally sad person, <laugh>

Moby (00:07:14):

<laugh>. So a happy song

Lindsay (00:07:18):

That feels fun to me. That one.

Moby (00:07:21):

Okay.

Lindsay (00:07:22):

Does that feel fun to you or is it too hard on your wrist bone?

Moby (00:07:26):

No, that's easy.

Lindsay (00:07:26):

Okay, good. <laugh>,

Moby (00:07:28):

I'm in too har like, cuz you know I've been playing guitar. Oh my goodness. Do you wanna hear something so unbelievably potentially sad that I probably shouldn't even admit say it. Do you know how long I've almost been playing guitar for How long? I can't even say it. Say it. No, it's a terrible word. <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:07:51):

Is it 50 years?

Moby (00:07:52):

I've almost been playing guitar for 50 years. That's

Lindsay (00:07:56):

That's amazing. It's amazing.

Moby (00:07:58):

I've never felt so old in my entire life. Yeah. I started playing guitar when I was around eight or nine and I'm currently having, so it's almost been 50 years. Wow.

Lindsay (00:08:09):

That's incredible. But also it shows you're really, really good at the guitar,

Moby (00:08:13):

But you do anything for a long time. You figure it out. Yeah. Like I think if you wanted to be an amazing ping pong player, if you played ping pong for 50 years, you'd be the greatest ping ponger in the world.

Lindsay (00:08:23):

I guess. So. But also you practice, you make music every single day. Like you are, you're not just someone who like casually picks up the guitar every now and again. Like

Moby (00:08:32):

I try to practice every day. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:08:33):

It shows you're very, very good at guitar.

Moby (00:08:35):

Kind of you to say.

Lindsay (00:08:37):

So here's my question. Should we try to figure out what the song's gonna be about? Or does it even matter?

Moby (00:08:42):

Oh, that's a, that's a, that's a really good question. Yeah. We've talked about tempo, we've talked about general feelings should be kind of like mid tempo and happy. . So yeah. So what should the song be about?

Lindsay (00:08:54):

Well, I've got some options I'd like to throw out there. The first option is a song about finding a good therapist. Okay. Because that's hard to do. Um, I've had a hard time with it in my life personally. Yeah. Um, sometimes great, sometimes not, you know. Um, but also very subtle, so like, people listening to the song won't know it's about trying to find a therapist. Okay. But they'll, but that's what I'm writing about. Okay. And you too probably, because I know you've had issues in this arena as well.

Moby (00:09:20):

I love therapy. But yeah, I've had a hard time finding a therapist I relate to and respect. Some of the people we've talked to on our podcast are great therapists, but I'm like, they're, but they're friends and they're people I know. I'm like, can I really ask them to be my therapist when they're my friend? I'm, I'm also thinking there's the specific and the general, like it could be a song about therapy, but more is generally about like, trying how hard it is to find sanity, how hard it is to find refuge and understanding. Well

Lindsay (00:09:49):

That sound that when you say it, it makes it sound fun. <laugh>. Um, so that's an option. Um, and then I thought, um, remember how, I remember how I told you the story about how I went to the barbecue and somebody put my impossible burger on a plate with a meat burger and how it upset me so much. Understandable. I thought

Moby (00:10:11):

We did. Cause I like, it's depressing. And also then you couldn't eat

Lindsay (00:10:15):

And then I didn't eat well, we did have, um, tofu pups. Um, actually Field roast makes a good vegan hotdog. We did have that, that I got to put on a clean grill, but I didn't get to have the Impossible burger that I was so excited about. So I thought maybe we could write a song about that. But it could be more poetic. Like, like I needed my space and you intruded on my beliefs.

Moby (00:10:37):

Um, while you were talking, I was playing this little rift that I kind of liked. Okay,

Lindsay (00:10:40):

Let's hear it. I love it so much. <laugh>. I love it so much.

Moby (00:11:03):

Okay.

Lindsay (00:11:07):

It feels very like cinematic. I'm wandering through woods, I come across a little rabbit and then I talk to the rabbit and it becomes a beautiful woman in a gown who builds me a glass house to live in. But the only thing is I can never leave. But the house is so beautiful, it's very hard. But then she shows me around and I tell her I don't wanna stay and she curses me and I become a rabbit.

Moby (00:11:44):

Wow. Well, <laugh>, okay. I don't even think we need to write a song <laugh>. That's just like, yeah. Like I, I think Lightning has struck a good way. Like that was, that was just our, that was our magic. It's all downhill from there <laugh>. So. Okay. So we like that little riff. I

Lindsay (00:12:00):

Love it. I love it. So

Moby (00:12:01):

Just as a little intro and I feel bad doing anything that would in any way take away from your rabbit fairytale <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:12:08):

No, no. It's okay. That was just, you know. Okay.

Moby (00:12:11):

So here's the first part that we just came up with. So that's just the intro.

Lindsay (00:12:34):

I love

Moby (00:12:34):

It. Um, and I'll add maybe cuz you like Yeah. You can add other things on top of it. I can't really play that and other things right now, but I'll do that later. Okay. Okay. And then we can get to our first verse. Okay. Maybe, maybe we stay in that chord. Little a chord.

Lindsay (00:12:48):

I like it. I like it.

Moby (00:12:54):

That's our first chord. Okay. Do you wanna think of other chords now or do you wanna start doing lyrics? Let's

Lindsay (00:13:01):

Start doing lyrics and I feel like we'll be led to it. It'll just happen naturally.

Speaker 3 (00:13:06):

You

Moby (00:13:06):

Got a first line.

Lindsay (00:13:09):

Um, what about something like, they say help is on the way. Great.

Moby (00:13:20):

So just be like,

Speaker 4 (00:13:22):

They say help.

Moby (00:13:24):

Oh actually you kind of want a cord change in the middle. Right? So we start here. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (00:13:29):

<affirmative>,

Speaker 4 (00:13:32):

This hell is on the way.

Moby (00:13:36):

That's one option. , I'm just throwing stuff out. I like

Lindsay (00:13:38):

It. No, it's good.

Speaker 4 (00:13:42):

Is on the way.

Lindsay (00:13:46):

But help is come and gone

Speaker 3 (00:13:50):

Because

Lindsay (00:13:50):

I like that. That felt really good. And emotion.

Moby (00:13:52):

Which one? That, that list,

Lindsay (00:13:53):

That last one.

Speaker 4 (00:13:56):

Help is on the way.

Speaker 3 (00:13:56):

Moby (00:14:02):

What next?

Lindsay (00:14:03):

But, but help has come and gone.

Moby (00:14:06):

Okay. Help. So the traditional thing would be to go,

Speaker 4 (00:14:11):

They say help is on the way. Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (00:14:15):

<affirmative>. Yeah. That's nice. That's nice.

Speaker 4 (00:14:20):

Help has come and gone.

Speaker 3 (00:14:24):

Ooh.

Moby (00:14:24):

That's a very standard, not a standard chord progression, but a lot of people have used that. Okay. So we can do that. The choices are endless. Okay. So we have help is on the way. And then do we want to go, we could also just go back to

Speaker 4 (00:14:42):

Is on the way.

Speaker 3 (00:14:46):

We'll

Moby (00:14:46):

Go back to First

Speaker 4 (00:14:50):

Help

Moby (00:14:50):

Has common. That's very repetitive. Do you wanna do that? Sure. Or,

Speaker 3 (00:15:05):

Or

Moby (00:15:05):

Is that too dark?

Lindsay (00:15:06):

It feels dark.

Moby (00:15:07):

Okay.

Speaker 3 (00:15:14):

Ooh,

Lindsay (00:15:15):

There it is. Clicked right in.

Moby (00:15:17):

Okay. So now we have a major to Dflat minor if you're playing along at home and then back to a major and then going up to the E major and that's our verse.

Lindsay (00:15:27):

Okay.

Moby (00:15:29):

So a little recap here. A major dflat mi minor, a major E major, a major Dflat minor up to D Major and back to a Okay. And that leads us in. Then we could either go right into a chorus or we could create what is called a B section or a pre chorus that most big songs have. I'm playing fast as we get to the

Lindsay (00:16:00):

To the thing. Do you wanna hear my idea for words for a pre chorus though? Yeah. Why are you so hard to find? I'm so far behind. I know it rhymes and that's kind of cheesy, but it does make sense. Okay.

Moby (00:16:17):

<laugh>. There's one thing. So cuz I work with so many different singers Oh yeah. And lyricists and people. And there's one thing everyone that I always try to encourage people to do is to use imagery. Ooh. Okay. For some reason people, and we're doing it right now, like we're, we're being very direct, which can be great when you can balance the two of imagery and direct expression that can be really special. But using imagery, think of the song. Imagine that's actually very direct. Like, it's almost like a lo it's a, a beautiful laundry list of wonderful things. . But it's very direct and very effective. And then think of Hallelujah by Leonard Cohen completely filled with imagery. , you know, starts off with biblical stories. It start like, it's just so much imagery.

Lindsay (00:17:11):

Okay. No, I like that. I like that a lot. And

Moby (00:17:13):

So it's, but it's, it's a lot of, it's, it's rare these days to find songs that, that rely on poetic imagery. But when it does, when when you let the language be creative, it can be really special. Um,

Lindsay (00:17:26):

I like that. Okay, good.

Moby (00:17:28):

Sometimes direct, sometimes creative and filled with poetic imagery. . So a chorus we've got, um, and here's where like my shortcomings as a singer. Cause we want the chorus to be big. . And so our chorus is gonna start on ema. Okay. And the obvious thing to do there is to, to sing the major third, which is this. So, and then we stay

Lindsay (00:18:01):

Oh wow.

Moby (00:18:01):

And then we stay on that note. Cause that's the fifth of the D that we're gonna go to is goes and stay on that note because we're going down to the

Lindsay (00:18:31):

Okay. Cut it and print it. I like it. Yeah. But that's beautiful. But it feels complicated.

Moby (00:18:36):

It's not comp, I mean it's super easy. It's only, I've actually only sung three notes. Oh,

Lindsay (00:18:40):

Okay. Well

Moby (00:18:41):

Four. Cuz I've got like, we've got them major third on the e go up to the minor third on the G flat, but then down to the G flat. And we go back to the a just up a whole step to the b whole song. That's the chorus. Amazing.

Lindsay (00:19:01):

Beautiful.

Moby (00:19:02):

Very simple. But like, then again, we're simple people working. So simple. Okay. So yeah. And that's basically the whole song.

Lindsay (00:19:43):

It's beautiful. I love this song.

Moby (00:19:44):

So we got a, we've got a verse, we have a chorus and we've got a, we've got a verse, we've got a little bitty pre chorus . And we have the beginnings of a chorus. So I have an idea in the interest of time expediency, cuz it's ideally we also kind of wanna like plague a close to finished result. Like this is the writing and also this is just

Lindsay (00:20:04):

The writing portion.

Moby (00:20:04):

And just to be clear, for anyone who's still listening, it's not like we had this worked out beforehand. Like this is, we're just making it up on the spot. This is like, it's

Lindsay (00:20:11):

Not like this is just how the vegan sausage is made.

Moby (00:20:13):

Yeah. So my thought would be, you work on some lyrics, I'm

Lindsay (00:20:17):

Gonna work on lyrics cuz I know exactly what we're missing. Okay. And I'll send you ideas and then we can finish the song and then we'll play it for everyone. Yeah.

Moby (00:20:23):

And, and let as, as the nascent lyricist here, let yourself try to explore imagery. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:20:32):

Let my poetic freak flag fly. Because

Moby (00:20:34):

That's really, it's a, it's a, yeah, it's a creative challenge. A lot of people are very uncomfortable with imagery cuz it involves creative vulnerability, you know? Yeah. Or can. Okay. So I'm gonna go hit pause on the pro tools that we're recording on and then take what we've done away and try and build a little more of a song around

Lindsay (00:20:56):

It. Great. I'm excited about it.

Moby (00:21:05):

So welcome back to Lindsay and Moby. Make a song from scratch. So here's a little recap for what has happened since we last spoke. I've gone away and I've sort of fleshed out the song a little bit. You know, adding drums, adding bass, and will listen to that in a minute. And Lindsay has gone away to write lyrics and I have seen some of the lyrics and some of them are very earnest and lovely and some of them are the best ridiculous lyrics I think I've ever read in my entire life. <laugh>. So of course we're gonna most likely use the earnest lyrics, but, but

Lindsay (00:21:42):

I'll tell you all about the other

Moby (00:21:43):

Lyrics. Yeah. So, so how do you wanna do this? Do you, I mean, cuz you've got a lot of lyrics. I do

Lindsay (00:21:47):

Have a lot of lyrics here, so I don't really know what the best way to do this is because I also am having a hard time understanding what the, um, melody is based on the music. So maybe I just say the lyrics or maybe you should say the lyrics since you know the, how the melody works.

Moby (00:22:06):

Okay.

Lindsay (00:22:06):

Things I know about melody.

Moby (00:22:07):

Well, so the melody, what I'm planning on doing is when we agree on lyrics, I'm gonna take the lyrics back tonight. and do rough vocals with the melody if you walk with,

Lindsay (00:22:19):

Oh yeah. I guess I just don't know how they'll work in the, if there's enough words or, or too many words for the how much space there is.

Moby (00:22:27):

Yeah. And part of it, I'll, I'll try it out tonight. Like, okay, we could do it now, but it would be difficult and aug not that difficult, but maybe a little tedious. It'd definitely be it. It's one of those things that like, it's, it's the least interesting part of writing a song. And so maybe we just, maybe I just do that in private.

Lindsay (00:22:45):

Yeah, that sounds like a private activity.

Moby (00:22:47):

Like there's certain things that are just best done in private, like figuring out how to conform lyrics to a song and eat spaghetti, crying, having emotions. Yeah. <laugh>. Um, okay. So I'll just look through your lyrics and they're a lot here.

Lindsay (00:23:00):

Well, yeah, I broke it up into, I wrote a bunch of verse ideas and a bunch of pre-chorus ideas and then a bunch of chorus ideas.

Moby (00:23:09):

Okay. So I would also think you should share this with your therapist <laugh>, because some of these like, look, look the, this verse it, I feel like it's out of like psychology today or the DSM five. Like, so here's one of your lyric stances. Oh God, is this the exposure, parental mistake, stress or disorder, unconscious patterns. But I know it's all wrong maladaptive, but it's honest. Also, I would say that I think that's the very first time the word maladaptive has been used in the song. So maybe

Lindsay (00:23:41):

We have to,

Moby (00:23:42):

There are trillion songs out there. You are the first person in human history to use the word maladaptive in

Lindsay (00:23:48):

The song <laugh>.

Moby (00:23:50):

Uh, I, I really like, okay, so in the pre chorus, and I'm jumping around a little bit, you have this one line that I really like, which is, but I'm bleeding on people who didn't cut me. That's a good one. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:24:01):

I love that one. Yeah. That, that's

Moby (00:24:03):

Drowning sea of helping hands no ship, no or no sail. Further now from Land four horsemen sinking sands. I

Lindsay (00:24:11):

Was trying to do a little Stevie Nicks, but I did it. Maybe not that good.

Moby (00:24:16):

No, your lyrics are great. And also, sorry for interrupting myself, but lyrics are the sort of thing, oftentimes the way that we judge them to state the obvious is within a song, within the context of a song.

Lindsay (00:24:29):

Yes. Rare that you judge a lyric just by saying it out loud as as if it's poetry. It kind of has a whole different vibe when you put it in the, when you put in a thing. Also, let me just say this, A lot of these choruses I think are interchangeable as verses

Moby (00:24:41):

Well, what I'm gonna try

Lindsay (00:24:42):

And and vice verse uh,

Moby (00:24:44):

Yeah, solid <laugh>. Um, what I'm gonna try this evening, I'm just gonna turn on a microphone and start playing around and try out a bunch of things. And then for part three we are going to listen to my rough vocal ideas and we can decide which ones we like. Okay. So that's the earnest part. I mean, some of these are pretty dark, like stretched paper thin a life that burned me down. I'll pay you for a way out so I won't let me drown.

Lindsay (00:25:12):

Well, yeah, you know, it's about needing therapy.

Moby (00:25:14):

Yeah, they're really good. You're, you're good at this really. So yeah, of course. But then what you're truly gifted at are the ridiculous lyrics that I know you don't think we're going to use because we probably won't. But we, I need to read them. Okay.

Lindsay (00:25:29):

I changed one of the words,

Moby (00:25:31):

Which in which one?

Lindsay (00:25:32):

The, this middle one. But I'll let you read them all. Okay.

Moby (00:25:34):

At the side of me, Trevor sheds a tear, but awe turns to terror as I reveal my circus gear. Welcome to Clown Town, Trevor <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:25:45):

<laugh>. It's a story,

Moby (00:25:47):

I don't know who Trevor is, but great <laugh>. And then the middle one is, once I found a rock, I loved it like my own. Then I found out it was petrified feces and loved it even more.

Lindsay (00:25:59):

That's emotion.

Moby (00:26:00):

I also really like that you didn't bother to like create a rhyme scheme like that. None of the lines rhyme. That's great. That feelings

Lindsay (00:26:07):

Are too strong.

Moby (00:26:07):

Yeah. And then here's honestly one of the greatest lyrics ever written as written by Lindsay Hicks. If I were a rat I would put corn on my teeth. Smile at you with my corn teeth. Tell you I'm your new rat neck daddy <laugh>. Yeah. You really should be proud of what you've accomplished in your life. Thank you

Lindsay (00:26:28):

So much.

Moby (00:26:29):

Yeah. I also love that you rhyme teeth with teeth. <laugh>

Lindsay (00:26:32):

<laugh>

Moby (00:26:34):

Like I'd put corn on my teeth. Smile at you with my corn teeth. <laugh>. It reminds me a little bit of one of my favorite rhyme schemes from that. Uh, is it the Neptunes or Pharrell that like it's getting hot in here.

Lindsay (00:26:50):

Nelly.

Moby (00:26:50):

Nelly. Yeah. It's getting hot in here. So take off all your clothes. Oh, it's getting so hot in here. I'm gonna take my clothes off. Doesn't rhyme. And it's the same basic thing repeated twice. It's like fantastic. It's like, okay. It's kind of like saying you're feeling hungry, so have a sandwich and then the response is, I'm feeling hungry, I'm gonna have a sandwich.

Lindsay (00:27:12):

Well, it's a call in response. You know, Nelly's saying to the gal, it's getting hot in here, you better take off all your clothes. And the girl's like, you know what? I'm convinced I, I'm getting so hot. I should, I should probably take something off because it's getting to be dangerous. I may overheat.

Moby (00:27:28):

Yeah. So it's either the edge of misogynistic sort of weird coercion culture or concern for overheating in a dangerous hot environment. Let's just work under the assumption it's the latter. Cuz that's a much more pleasant assumption. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:27:44):

I think Nelly cares about people. <laugh>,

Moby (00:27:47):

<laugh>. Uh, okay. So those are the lyrics and like I said, I am gonna take these lyrics and I'm gonna try them out and hopefully come up with something that we like.

Lindsay (00:27:59):

Okay, great. I'm very excited. I can't wait to see what you put together.

Moby (00:28:02):

I don't, I mean, again, I'm not a great singer, but I'll try and come up with something that feels okay.

Lindsay (00:28:08):

Am I gonna sing the song?

Moby (00:28:09):

We could both sing, sing this song. I assume. Let's boas sing it. So I'm gonna, I'll come up with something. I mean, who knows. This might be a 12 hour long podcast <laugh>, but like, I'm gonna come up with some, some vocal ideas. Play them for you and then you can, we can come up with like my final vocal and you can duet with that. And then we can figure out who who does which. Like once you have your vocal with my vocal, well then figure out is it a duet? Do we add some harmonies? This is songwriting.

Lindsay (00:28:37):

Yeah. It's all new to me. Novel even.

Moby (00:28:41):

So, okay, so now from that original guitar idea, do you want to hear the orchestration that I've sort of put together? A

Lindsay (00:28:48):

Hundred percent? Yeah. Okay.

Moby (00:28:49):

So we'll start with just, uh, the new guitar based on what we played the other day. So you remember this right?

Lindsay (00:29:00):

Vividly.

Moby (00:29:00):

Okay. So that was the original guitar part. And then I added a second guitar part. Why don't I, I'll pan them a little bit. Ooh, doesn't it sound pretty?

Lindsay (00:29:14):

So pretty.

Moby (00:29:15):

So, so I did that and then I added a little ride symbol. You ready for that?

Lindsay (00:29:22):

Yes. Oh, that's called a ride symbol. Yeah, it's a nice symbol. Gentle even. And then a

Moby (00:29:29):

Little piano. So you see the song starting to be orchestrated. Ooh,

Lindsay (00:29:38):

Okay. The journey has begun.

Moby (00:29:40):

And then a little drums. You want some drums?

Lindsay (00:29:43):

Yeah.

Moby (00:29:46):

Ooh, simple. Just simple. Like I said. Okay. I didn't knock myself out. Little bass.

Lindsay (00:29:51):

It's a, it's a not so slow, slow dance.

Moby (00:29:55):

Little and then some orchestration.

Speaker 3 (00:30:00):

Hearing

Lindsay (00:30:00):

This right now, I'm like, ooh, some hoes are about to sing about their mental illness

Moby (00:30:04):

<laugh>. And then a little of, a little more. Okay. And then soon we're coming up to the nice little middle eight section.

Lindsay (00:30:18):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Moby (00:30:20):

Okay. Here's the middle eight section. You ready for the chorus?

Lindsay (00:30:25):

Ding, ding, ding, ding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Moby (00:30:27):

Here it all gets super big in a second. Ready? Here you go. Ooh. Um, do you wanna hear any of the individual elements or not? Am I just being self-involved? Probably.

Lindsay (00:30:48):

Well, I love the way it sounds together, but I feel like we listen to some of them separately, but also, okay. Sometimes I don't know what's happening. Oh, here's

Moby (00:30:54):

The, so here's our friend, the guitar, second guitar. Now look at all these things. What do you want to hear now? Just name something

Lindsay (00:31:07):

Triangle.

Moby (00:31:08):

Uh, well name something that's actually here. Oh,

Lindsay (00:31:11):

On that list. <laugh>. Um, <laugh>.

Moby (00:31:16):

Okay.

Lindsay (00:31:18):

Um, string. String.

Speaker 3 (00:31:22):

Ooh.

Lindsay (00:31:24):

Okay. Metron.

Moby (00:31:27):

And what we can do for a little stereos, we put the Melo. Oh,

Lindsay (00:31:30):

I love the metron. Put the

Moby (00:31:31):

Metron over here and we'll put the string over here so we got some nice stereo.

Lindsay (00:31:39):

Ooh.

Moby (00:31:39):

How about little synthesizer?

Lindsay (00:31:41):

Sounds good.

Moby (00:31:44):

Ooh. And then maybe put the, the, the synthesizer over there. And how about the orchestra? I

Lindsay (00:32:02):

Love the orchestra.

Moby (00:32:04):

Those are all the good things.

Lindsay (00:32:07):

Can we, is that snare in here?

Moby (00:32:09):

Yeah. You know what we could also do? I don't know if we can do this while it's recording or not, is I can try it. Nope, I didn't think so. I was gonna change the sound of the snare, but unfortunately Pro Tools can't do that while it's recording. So here's, okay, I'll stop for one second. So here's the snare drum. I added some effects, but they're not in yet. Okay.

Lindsay (00:32:34):

Let's snare

Moby (00:32:35):

It up in board. Is everyone bored? Okay.

Lindsay (00:32:37):

No, I think they're ensnared.

Moby (00:32:40):

Okay. So nice fun sounding. Ooh, snare. Isn't that an interesting sound? That

Lindsay (00:32:46):

Is an angry robot. <laugh>.

Moby (00:32:50):

And we can add a little reverb. And then

Lindsay (00:33:00):

I really like how they make the knobs on pro tools look like real knobs. Oh,

Moby (00:33:04):

They, they recreate, I mean, basically it's all just code, but they make everything look like original boxes. Like this one is called a Devil Lock. . And it's a recreation of a high school public address system from the seventies.

Lindsay (00:33:19):

That's so cool.

Moby (00:33:21):

And what it does is it like com it squashes everything and makes it sort of sound like you're in a gymnasium. At least that's what it's supposed to sound like. So should we bring back all our friendly little insert? Is

Lindsay (00:33:37):

The snare gonna stay like this?

Moby (00:33:40):

Yeah, I can. And then here it is with the other drums. It's obviously quite loud. Um, but it sounds so good that maybe it should be loud little bass.

Lindsay (00:33:57):

The bass gives it more character, weirdly. Yeah. I mean it gives the snare a whole different life.

Moby (00:34:04):

Um, bring our friendly little guitars back in now. The melotron that you like piano and then all the pretty orchestral stuff?

Lindsay (00:34:19):

Yeah. Ooh, wow. That is a song and a half right there. You know what's crazy to me is that there's clearly a melody in there, but I still have a hard time figuring out how the words will sound. You know what I mean? I, my brain can't do the math.

Speaker 3 (00:34:47):

Uh,

Moby (00:34:47):

I think that's normal.

Lindsay (00:34:49):

Oh, okay. Good. I didn't know if it was like

Moby (00:34:53):

Yeah, I, I won't, I won't know how the melody's gonna fit until I'm actually playing around with it. Like, I can't hear it in my head right now.

Lindsay (00:34:59):

Oh good, okay. I thought that I was just like, Nope. Very musically illiterate.

Moby (00:35:04):

Where's bagel? She's

Lindsay (00:35:05):

On the chair.

Moby (00:35:09):

Uh, okay. So that's the, that's the song as it currently stands with my orchestration.

Lindsay (00:35:18):

It's so good. I mean, I kind of like it like this. Let's just leave it

Speaker 3 (00:35:23):

<laugh>.

Moby (00:35:25):

And so I'm gonna take this and the other parts. And this evening before watching 30 Rock for the 10th time <laugh> I, after having my dinner,

Lindsay (00:35:37):

Um, which is gonna happen very soon. It's nearly five o'clock. It's

Moby (00:35:40):

Almost five o'clock. It's almost dinnertime.

Lindsay (00:35:42):

<laugh> <laugh>.

Moby (00:35:43):

Wow. I feel like I might as well be in Abi

Lindsay (00:35:47):

<laugh>. Um,

Moby (00:35:49):

Okay, so I'm gonna take this, which is gonna end in just one second. Ready? Stop.

Lindsay (00:35:54):

Ooh, that's an ending if I've ever heard one.

Moby (00:35:58):

Do you want to hear something fun? Uh,

Lindsay (00:36:00):

Absolutely.

Moby (00:36:01):

Okay, let's just, let's take some snare drums and we're gonna give them so much reverb that they're gonna last forever.

Lindsay (00:36:09):

Reverb forever.

Moby (00:36:10):

Well, maybe not forever, but it's gonna, here you go. Ready? Yeah.

Lindsay (00:36:13):

Yeah. Whoa. It's like somebody snapped a rubber band in the biggest canyon of all time. <laugh>.

Moby (00:36:36):

So still going?

Lindsay (00:36:38):

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Moby (00:36:39):

It's a lot of reverb. Um, do you want to hear one other fun effect that we might not use in the podcast, but I think is really interesting? A hundred

Lindsay (00:36:45):

Percent I do.

Moby (00:36:46):

Okay, we're gonna take that and we're gonna flip it. So in the ye olden days of tape recording studios, to play something in reverse, you had to record something on tape and then take the tape off the tape machine and turn it upside down and play it backwards. Like that's how like Jimmy Hendrix and everybody made that cool reverse effect. And now you just give it this little here what's happening. It's what we just heard in reverse

Lindsay (00:37:12):

Uns snapping the rubber band and the Great Canyon.

Moby (00:37:23):

And what's gonna happen in the second is it's going to stop.

Lindsay (00:37:29):

Um, I mean, yeah, that's a, that's a real sound effect you made right there. You could, you could sell that to a movie man.

Moby (00:37:35):

<laugh>, here's okay. I've taken one of the guitar parts and now we're gonna listen to it in reverse as they did in the sixties. Here you go. Do you feel like you're at Woodstock 1969?

Lindsay (00:37:58):

I love this so much. This is amazing. <laugh>. Oh my gosh. I feel like my eyes are EMDR themselves.

Moby (00:38:16):

Yeah, I should. That is like an interesting emdr Are we have, are you having emotions?

Lindsay (00:38:20):

Always. Okay. That was cool. I love that. I love that sound.

Moby (00:38:24):

Just for fun. Should we take some of the other ones and play them backwards? See what happens? Sure. Okay, so now here's the entire song. Chorus played backwards. It might just sound like a gigantic hile of mess, but let's see. Shall we? Here you go.

Lindsay (00:38:41):

I, I'm, I cannot imagine what this is gonna sound like. Okay. This is so cool.

Moby (00:39:00):

Is it just me or it's actually more fun to listen to than the original version.

Lindsay (00:39:07):

Do I like this more? Should we reverse the whole thing? <laugh>, this is so cool. What is that? That drum that's like,

Moby (00:39:20):

Oh that's the snare if I mute it.

Lindsay (00:39:23):

I love that. I love that so much because you know, it kind of sounds like a sharp inhale. , which feels like very emotional. I mean it gives the feeling of a sharp inhale.

Moby (00:39:46):

So what I'm gonna do is only take the sort of pretty melodic elements, the orchestra and the strings and everything and see what those sound like backwards. But maybe we miss our friend little Mr. Snare drum.

Lindsay (00:40:03):

Yeah. I miss that little snare. I love that. Or, you know, the thing that's the most different is the snare drum. What if we just reversed only the snare drum in the original thing? Do you think that would be interesting?

Moby (00:40:38):

I think that's an interesting idea. Why don't, let's try that. But everything else forward, you know what's,

Lindsay (00:41:00):

I don't know, something else in there was really he helping it along. Maybe it was the guitar backwards.

Moby (00:41:08):

I mean, I hate to say it, I think it was kind of everything. Maybe

Lindsay (00:41:11):

It was just everything together.

Moby (00:41:14):

Yeah. So, okay, so now let's bring back everything reversed and then we're stuck with the dilemma of we have this super cool thing in reverse. Is that what the song should be?

Lindsay (00:41:32):

Man, it just sounds so cool.

Moby (00:41:38):

I gotta say I really like that reverse base.

Lindsay (00:41:43):

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:41:45):

Um, ooh.

Lindsay (00:41:58):

And also there's some, oh, something about it sounds,

Speaker 3 (00:42:09):

Sounds

Lindsay (00:42:10):

Like there's like a whiplashy feeling. Like it just feels like there's something very like ethereal and windswept and airy about it. Yeah. That feels kind of like magical in a way. Like some sort of magic magician vibes, but in a cool way. The fluttering kind of thing. This is a rock song for birds.

Moby (00:43:04):

Okay. So now we have, and how, who knows how much of this we're going to use, but maybe it's interesting, but now we have this dilemma, like the reverse sounds so cool. How to rewrite the song if we wanna rewrite it so the entire thing is in reverse. Or do we just say, wow, the reverse is super cool but let do we write the song conventionally. I'm gonna take this away, play with it and see what we see what I come back with and you can tell me what you think. Okay, great. Okay, so just a little quick recap. I worked on the music a little bit and I took your lyrics and I tried to sing them on top of the song. I sort of, I modified some of the lyrics, I added a few things of my own. And so now the, one of the reasons I'm rambling on is cuz I wanna play you what I've done, but I'm also scared that I'll play it for you and you'll think it's ridiculous.

Lindsay (00:44:11):

I don't think that that could happen. Yes. Remember when I sang you my rat daddy song, rat, rat rat neck daddy song <laugh>. I think we have to be o okay with vulnerability. Okay,

Moby (00:44:21):

So should I play you what I've done?

Lindsay (00:44:24):

Uh, yeah, please.

Moby (00:44:25):

And I took some of the backwards ideas. I I I didn't make the entire thing backwards. I just took some of the, the nice backwards stuff like the snare drum and some guitars and pianos and made them backwards. So there are backward, now there are backwards elements in the song. Okay. So I will play the song and we'll see what we think. Great. So do you hear Ooh, so like the piano, whoops, I just made everything loud. I didn't mean to do that. Okay. Like, like the piano was backwards and now it's isn't that pretty backwards? Piano. It's amazing. And then I took the regular snare, which was this and added that backward snare that you liked.

Speaker 3 (00:45:27):

Oh,

Moby (00:45:27):

I hear that. Harmony. Okay. So the harmony, just to be clear, is sort of an indication of what it could be. So it's not, I'm not saying this is a final thing. Okay. Like I'm now I'm embarrassed of my harmony cuz it's Stop it. I love them because my pitch, it's just a scratch vocal. Yeah. And also cause I wanted to leave. I thought maybe you could sing the harmonies. Yeah. I can't keep up. Okay. So that's where we at. Those are the rest, the verse. Now here's a little pre chorus. Ooh. The backwards. And now the chorus. Also you want to hear this fun little thing? I did, yes. I took one of the melodic elements and had given it this processing. So it's kind of rhythmic.

Speaker 3 (00:46:39):

You

Moby (00:46:39):

Hear that? That's without Wow. I like it just gives anything.

Speaker 3 (00:46:55):

Yeah.

Moby (00:46:55):

I like that little interludy. And now we've got, we're back to our little intro with some of the reversed elements.

Speaker 3 (00:47:04):

This

Moby (00:47:04):

A little psychedelic thing going on, sort of sounds like the Beatles.

Speaker 3 (00:47:12):

Mm-hmm.

Moby (00:47:12):

<affirmative>. Okay. Now back to verse two. And I added a new little melodic part.

Speaker 5 (00:47:34):

Yes.

Moby (00:47:34):

It's this.

Speaker 3 (00:47:35):

Okay.

Lindsay (00:47:38):

I love that.

Moby (00:47:46):

I think it's very pretty.

Lindsay (00:47:47):

It's so pretty, very emotional

Moby (00:47:51):

In our little backward snare.

Lindsay (00:47:58):

Ooh, reverb.

Moby (00:48:06):

Okay. So, um, and then we're go back to our chorus again. What are we what You're listening intently, but you're not saying anything that makes me scared to

Lindsay (00:48:25):

No, I'm loving it. I'm not wanting to talk over it is what's happening cuz it's so fun to listen to. Okay. I love that.

Speaker 3 (00:49:22):

Ooh.

Moby (00:49:23):

And now, so I just got the, the, the chorus repeating. Oops, I brought the level down a little bit so we can talk. Um, okay. So what do you think?

Lindsay (00:49:40):

I love it. I love it. There's a couple of words I might wanna change that I wrote that I don't, I ended up not think, I don't know if they work my words. Um, but overall, uh, just like literally two words I would wanna change and otherwise I think it's amazing. Okay. I think the harmony is really work. I think it's very emotional. I love it. I think the music sounds amazing and those backwards. Oh God, it's so good. Okay, so now what do we do?

Moby (00:50:06):

That's a good question. So we are under a little bit of a time crunch. Okay. What I mean by that is we have to take this what we, what we've been working on and go back and listen to it and figure out if it's worth sharing with people. <laugh>. So my thought would be I'll give you this mixed version and you can listen to it tonight and then see what changes you might wanna make to the lyrics. Okay. And then we figure out what you are gonna sing. Okay,

Lindsay (00:50:39):

Great. I'm happy to just do a little harmonies. Okay. That sounds kind of fun.

Moby (00:50:42):

Um, and then tomorrow, uh, come back in and you can sing your parts and then hopefully at that point we'll have enough of a finished piece of music that we can, uh, start getting this ready to share with people who are willing to listen to it. I

Lindsay (00:51:00):

Think we should share

Moby (00:51:00):

It. Uh, Jonathan, who lives in Texas will edit this and we'll also something I'm embarrassed about, but it's, the truth is he might take some of our finished vocals and tune them a little bit. But then again, maybe we just leave it as is because, you know, we're, my voice has, I sometimes have some pitch issues with my voice, but that's honest. That's just natural singing. I have pitch

Lindsay (00:51:23):

Issues too.

Moby (00:51:24):

Okay. So

Lindsay (00:51:25):

We'll, um, we'll see you, you'll hear us on the other side after we've recorded the

Moby (00:51:32):

Song. Your, your vocals. My vocals. And so basically from our perspective, about 24 hours will pass from anyone listening. About three seconds will pass. S So you came in here yesterday and recorded your vocals, which we decided not to include that part in the podcast.

Lindsay (00:52:00):

Yeah. We didn't, we didn't make it a pod moment. I just laid down my tracks and I gotta say, I thought I was gonna come in here and be Mariah Carey and it was really, really hard and humbling. Um, but you really got me through that moment. So thanks Mo. Oh

Moby (00:52:12):

Well you have a very good voice. It's definitely, I can tell that you studied musical theater. Yeah. Because you have a, it's it's really good. It's just you a little

Lindsay (00:52:21):

Theatrical.

Moby (00:52:22):

Well it's, it's, there's a,

Lindsay (00:52:23):

An annunciation a

Moby (00:52:25):

Sort of Yes. There's a, there's a cleanliness and an annunciation to your voice that reminds me of musical theater.

Lindsay (00:52:31):

Well, yeah, I mean you don't wanna lose the narrative structure.

Moby (00:52:34):

Exactly. <laugh>. So you recorded your vocals and then last night and this morning I took your vocals and my vocals and I combined them and edited them. And I've come up with what I think is a final mix.

Lindsay (00:52:50):

Okay. And which I have not, you have not heard. I have not heard. Okay.

Moby (00:52:54):

So what I thought we might want to do possibly for fun, possibly for self involvement or possibly for both, is to play just as a reminder for us and maybe for anyone listening where the song sort of started. So we'll play like the demo intro, the demo verse, and then the demo chorus as they were being written. And then we'll play the finished version just to compare and contrast. Is that, is that just ridiculous self involvement or does that seem interesting? You

Lindsay (00:53:25):

Know, it could really go either way, but I'm hopeful it'll be interesting <laugh>.

Moby (00:53:29):

Okay. So here is the original intro.

Lindsay (00:53:34):

Well we did have actually field contact, we have that. I

Moby (00:53:42):

Just fyi, if you listen in the background you can hear you talking about vegan hotdogs,

Lindsay (00:53:49):

<laugh>.

Moby (00:53:52):

Um,

Lindsay (00:53:52):

That's generally what I'm in the background talking about. Yeah. Okay. So, so while I was talking about, um, how Field Roast makes a delicious vegan hotdog, uh, you were, uh, playing

Moby (00:54:02):

That little intro.

Lindsay (00:54:03):

You were discovering the little intro.

Moby (00:54:05):

Yeah. And so now here is the first when we sort of came up with the verse is on,

Lindsay (00:54:20):

But help is come and gone

Speaker 3 (00:54:23):

Because

Lindsay (00:54:23):

I like that. That felt really good. And emotion. Which

Moby (00:54:25):

One? That, that list,

Lindsay (00:54:26):

That last one

Moby (00:54:29):

Help is on

Speaker 3 (00:54:31):

The way. .

Moby (00:54:35):

What? Okay, so that was the first time we played the verse of the song. Now do you want to hear the first time we played the chorus? I

Lindsay (00:54:44):

I think we should do that. Yes.

Moby (00:54:45):

Okay, so here's the first time that we played the chorus. So,

Speaker 3 (00:54:56):

And

Lindsay (00:54:56):

Then we Oh wow. And then we stay

Moby (00:54:58):

On that note cause that's the fifth of the D that we're gonna go to. He goes stay on that note because we're going down to the

Speaker 3 (00:55:25):

<laugh>. <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:55:27):

Okay. Cut it and print it. I like it. Yeah. <laugh>. I stand by that.

Moby (00:55:30):

Okay. So that was when we played the intro. When we played the first verse and when we played the chorus and that was when those little parts were being written. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, we had, we had nothing. We had no subject matter, we had no chords, we had no melody, we had nothing before we started the process. So those are for better or worse the ideas as they're being written. They're

Lindsay (00:55:59):

Inception.

Moby (00:56:00):

Yeah. So do you want to hear what I think is the final mix? Yeah.

Lindsay (00:56:04):

Should we talk over it or should we just listen?

Moby (00:56:06):

It's up to you. What do you think? I think we

Lindsay (00:56:07):

Should just listen. Okay.

Moby (00:56:08):

Let's just listen. So here we're just gonna play the final mix and here it is. Okay.

Lindsay (01:01:35):

Mama Mia <laugh>

Moby (01:01:37):

<laugh>. Okay. So we wrote a song from start to finish. I mean, finish it, it could be finished better cause it could be mixed better. But that is our episode of writing a song. What do you think? I

Lindsay (01:01:50):

Feel like I don't really understand what happened here. <laugh>. Well like, I mean you really worked a lot of your magic and I just put a couple of words in there and then you magic to them all together in a magic way. But it's so amazing that you can do that. It's incredible. Like your knowledge of this and like the ease and speed with which you do it. Unbelievable.

Moby (01:02:16):

Well thanks. I mean, I will say I've been doing this for a while and also I do, I work on music every day, so it's all very second nature.

Lindsay (01:02:24):

It shows, it really is. But also it was really, really fun. Like to me, I kind of can't really wrap my head around how a week ago we were like, what we read a song about and then like, it became this, which I think is actually a kind of beautiful song.

Moby (01:02:39):

Yeah. I I I like it a lot. Um, I like the lyric approach I think is really pretty and poignant. Like, I thought we were gonna write something really lighthearted and jolly. Well I

Lindsay (01:02:49):

Do think we should write a song about the Rat one Day <laugh>, but I don't, I didn't really know what we were going to. Right. But what's funny is that like the, the music isn't necessarily sad. The music almost feels upbeat and interesting and kind of like psychedelic woowoo bright colors and, but then the words are really like

Moby (01:03:10):

Poignant,

Lindsay (01:03:11):

Sad and searching, you know? Yeah.

Moby (01:03:13):

As long as I've been making music, I have had lots and lots of people come to me trying to sort of asking about what you are asking about. They're like, they're like, how is it that like your music is not sad, but somehow it is. Like you can write like even like up tempo or mid tempo songs still have this sort of like a quality of, I don't know, like emotional longing or what have you. So

Lindsay (01:03:38):

Yeah, it really does this really has that. Anyway, I think that this has been amazing. I want to do more of these when we can because that was really fun and interesting and maybe bring in a real musician to help next time <laugh>. Cuz I'm not a real musician.

Moby (01:03:53):

No, but you did great. Thanks. And what I would ask for the people who are listening write in and let us know what type of song we should do next. Because I wouldn't even, is this a sort of like a, a synth wave indie pop song? How would you even

Lindsay (01:04:12):

I have no idea how I would describe this.

Moby (01:04:14):

Okay. So yeah, so please write in and give us direction for the next song We should write and maybe like a couple times a year we will do this, like start from scratch and write a song and force ourselves to share it, finish it and share it no matter what it is. So like, even if we make something bad, we have to share it.

Lindsay (01:04:31):

We're forced. Yeah. I like that.

Moby (01:04:33):

I guess. So we've had a, an interesting few days writing this song. Do we wanna say goodbye and thank you. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:04:40):

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you're still listening right now, I literally love you. That's commitment and I'm so impressed. Um, I also wanna say thank you to Jonathan Nesvadba who edited this episode, um, and also did a little vocal tuning, um, which thanks Jonathan. You really are doing God's work. Um, and I also wanna say thank you to human content who, uh, in addition to just being really nice people, also get this podcast out into your ears. So thanks guys.