Moby (00:00:08):

Hi, Lindsay. Hi

Lindsay (00:00:09):

Moby.

Moby (00:00:09):

Hi Bagel.

Bagel (00:00:11):

Hi,

Moby (00:00:11):

Moby. <laugh> <laugh>. Uh, so we have a lot of stuff we wanna talk about today.

Lindsay (00:00:17):

A lot. Um, so we wanna talk about, I had an experience recently, which was very scary, but also I think very indicative of a certain cultural moment that we're having. So when we, we wanna talk about that, but we're also gonna do a little finish the lyric, which is something we've done a couple times. That boy do, I just love. So we're gonna do that and then we're gonna talk about your music stuff that you've got going on, and then we're gonna talk about your minimalism, your anti luxury lifestyle.

Moby (00:00:50):

Okay. Well, great. So why don't we get started?

Lindsay (00:00:54):

Let's put on our caps and dive right in. Okay. So I thought it would be really fun to do a little finish the lyric,

Moby (00:01:06):

Which we've done before. We've

Lindsay (00:01:08):

Done it many times before, but it tickles me. Hurry time we do it. I

Moby (00:01:12):

Think we've done it twice. Well, <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:01:15):

Yeah, but I tickled me both times then. Um, this is from one of the most popular songs maybe on planet earth right now. Okay.

Moby (00:01:23):

Now, now I'm nervous.

Lindsay (00:01:24):

Well, don't, because it's all for fun. And you don't listen to top forties.

Moby (00:01:28):

No, but so

Lindsay (00:01:29):

It's no's. Okay. If you don't

Moby (00:01:30):

Know, I guess it's okay. Yeah. I guess it's, I've now admitted in public that I don't know anything. I know some names of contemporary musicians. I've

Lindsay (00:01:38):

Heard, you know, names. You have your respect, but you don't necessarily, it's not your, on your

Moby (00:01:42):

Rotation. Like Bad Bunny. That's a, that's a band. <laugh>. That's <laugh>,

Lindsay (00:01:46):

That's a very, uh, uh, a rabbit that ignores all the rules. <laugh>.

Moby (00:01:50):

Um, it's like one of my favorite 30 rock lines is Liz Lemon. Someone has accused her of not being hip and she's like, I'm hip. I like bands like Amy Grant <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:02:03):

Okay. No joke. Amy Grant was like the only CD I had for about two months when I first got my compact disc portable player.

Moby (00:02:12):

Did she do the song, Baby Baby?

Lindsay (00:02:13):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Moby (00:02:15):

That's

Lindsay (00:02:15):

Amy Grant.

Moby (00:02:17):

Oh, wow. See, I knew that. Okay, see, there you go. Okay. So we're gonna,

Lindsay (00:02:20):

So you are familiar with book bands like Amy Grant, <laugh>. So

Moby (00:02:23):

Complete the lyric.

Lindsay (00:02:24):

Okay. So this is from

Moby (00:02:27):

A popular song. A

Lindsay (00:02:27):

Very popular song. Okay. Sweet. Like blank. Blank is a cat blanking in my lap because it loves me.

Moby (00:02:39):

Sweet. Like blank blank as a cat

Lindsay (00:02:43):

Is a cat.

Moby (00:02:43):

Blank is a cat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> blank

Lindsay (00:02:46):

Blanking in my lap because it loves me.

Moby (00:02:50):

Okay. Sweet. Like a potato <laugh> bagel in my lap. Chewing scrunchies because she loves me. I mean, I mean, granted I'm not using any creativity because I just gave Bagel and Lucy Sweet Potatoes <laugh>. I'm looking at bagel and she has a scrunchie in her mouth. So like she

Lindsay (00:03:12):

Yeah, you're really just saying what you see in the room. Yeah. Um, <laugh>, so you're wrong. Yeah. But I do like sweet, like a potato. Yeah. I think if you haven't used that in a song of your own by now, it's the time.

Moby (00:03:25):

Sweet. Like a potato.

Lindsay (00:03:27):

There aren't enough songs about potatoes in my opinion.

Moby (00:03:30):

There are very few, but there

Lindsay (00:03:30):

Are a lot of songs like about Honey Sweet. Like Honey Karma is a cat purring in my lap cuz it loves me.

Moby (00:03:38):

Who, who is the musician?

Lindsay (00:03:40):

Taylor Swift.

Moby (00:03:41):

Oh, okay.

Lindsay (00:03:42):

This is a song about karma and basically people think that it's about that guy that bought her catalog. You know what I'm talking about? That guy that bought her catalog?

Moby (00:03:52):

Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:03:53):

Well anyway, this is a song that pe many people think is about that situation. Talking about how, or, uh, some people think it's about the Kanye situation of, you know, people that have wronged her and it's about how Karma's gonna get them. Okay. Like, she calls, she calls the person who wronged her a Spider Boy, A King of Thieves. You know, my penny's major crown is what she says in the song

Moby (00:04:14):

Spider Boy. Okay.

Lindsay (00:04:17):

Spider Boy. It's a really catchy song. I personally really love

Moby (00:04:20):

It. Yeah. I've never, I've never heard of Taylor Swift

Lindsay (00:04:22):

Song. My yoga teacher plays it in, um, the yoga class all the time. Yeah. Okay. Um, anyway, that was fun, right? Yeah.

Moby (00:04:28):

Uh, and we got to talk about Taylor Swift in a way that won't incur the wrath of the Swifties except for me admitting in public. I don't think I've ever actually heard of Taylor Swift song. That's which which is fine cuz I'm an old person and I should not be listening. I mean, it'd be a little, wouldn't it be weird if as a man in his fifties, I knew a whole lot about Taylor Swift's music that

Lindsay (00:04:49):

I don't, I think Taylor Swift really crosses that boundary. Mm.

Moby (00:04:53):

Okay. You know, well, I'm, I'm just being super cautious cause I know I've watched what happened to people who've offended the swifties and like they're hell has no wrath. Like a swifty offended.

Lindsay (00:05:05):

It's could not be more true. You might as well say that you hate puppies. Yeah. You know,

Moby (00:05:10):

So, okay, so we finish the lyric, hopefully in a way that won't offend Taylor's Swift's a hundred million angry fans.

Lindsay (00:05:17):

I just wanna say for the record, swift, he's out there. I do love Taylor. So don't come for me.

Moby (00:05:34):

So you want to talk about anger?

Lindsay (00:05:38):

I do. Well, I had an experience recently and I've had a few, but one recently that really shocked me. I wasn't necessarily scared, I was just shocked. And it made me think about the state of rage that so many find themselves in and how, how easily a a feeling turns to rage. So I thought I would tell that story and we would talk a little bit about that feeling and ways we've experienced it and what we do when we experience it.

Moby (00:06:05):

Yeah. I mean, this culture of rage and when you take a step back, cuz we're so immersed in it that sometimes you don't even notice it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, but it's, I mean, it's political debates. It's, it's cable news, it's social media, it's, I mean, I'm stating the obvious, but it's music, it's movies, it's tv, it's everything. It's war. It's just this constant rage. And when you brought this up, when you said that you wanted to talk about this today, my first thought was like, you were almost like talking about like, oh, let's talk about gravity, or let's talk about the weather. Like,

Lindsay (00:06:39):

Cuz it's so ubiquitous, I mean Yeah, it's a feeling that is unavoidable. We cross it every day in little bits, even if we're not realizing it.

Moby (00:06:48):

So I want to hear your story and also just a little caveat of sorts. So I, when I knew we were gonna be talking about rage, I went online and I did a bunch of research. So I,

Lindsay (00:07:01):

I'm so excited about

Moby (00:07:01):

It. I don't, I don't know if's any of it's relevant or interesting, but luckily there've been a lot of scientific studies done on rage. And so I've done my dilettante-ish research and I will share them with you once we're done with our stories.

Lindsay (00:07:14):

Okay, that's great. I'm really excited about it. So my story is this last week I was moving and I live in an apartment on a busy street or I did, that's where I was moving from. Yeah. And this street parking is, parking is a challenge, especially on the street. I had a little parking garage, but because I was moving and my apartment was very close to the front, I had to park on the street so that the movers could bring the big pieces in and out. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> cuz they wouldn't have been able to do it any other way. So I borrowed Moby's car cuz it's bigger than mine, so it could hold enough space for the truck to be able to pull up by the front door. And it was four o'clock when they were meant to arrive and they called and said they were there. So I went outside to show them where my car was so that they could pull into it as I was pulling out. And

Moby (00:08:02):

You were holding a space for the moving truck. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:08:04):

Super. But that car, the car had been there for, I don't know, five or six hours at that point. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> because I was so worried that they wouldn't be able to find a spot. So they finally get there and I show them where I show them where I am, like waving, you know, and point to the spot. And then I go, I'm turning to go get in my car. And there was a car parked in a nons spot. There was like a end of a driveway. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there was a guy sitting there, which happens sometimes. It's a busy street. Sometimes people just sit there, whatever, Lyft drivers or whoever. And, um, this guy rolls his window down and goes, what the are you doing? And I said, I'm sorry, <laugh>. He said, I said, what the do you think you're doing?

Lindsay (00:08:45):

And I said, uh, I'm moving my move, the moving truck is coming in, so I'm giving them the spot. And he was like, you can't do that. I've been waiting for the spot for 10 minutes. And I said, well, I've been holding the spot for many hours and that's the only way I can get my stuff in and out unless they park a few blocks away and that would suck. And he was like, not my problem. And I was like, what? And he gets up out of his car and I thought he was gonna hit me. He was red, almost purple in the face, having this emotional experience was yelling so angry because he couldn't get the spot that he'd been waiting for for 10 minutes. I, I was really for a moment, like looking around in case he came after me mm-hmm. <affirmative> to see if there was anyone else there that I could like call for help or something.

Lindsay (00:09:30):

I, because I really thought that he was gonna lunch for me because he was in the stance, his face was red, he was yelling, it was really scary. He had this deep rage experience. And then eventually I was like, okay, well this guy's being insane and I'm not going to give him the spot. So then I just told the movers to pull up next to my car and double park because that was the only way to do it. And eventually he goes, oh, so you're not moving? And I was like, no, I'm I, I I mm-hmm. <affirmative> have to get my furniture out. So no. And then he was yelling profanities and crazy stuff as he like skidded away. Like, if somebody would've been on the other side of that truck, he would've fully hit. It was just very dangerous and very, very scary. And it made me think about this feeling of rage that is so overwhelming and almost intoxicating to act on at times.

Lindsay (00:10:18):

Like, there was almost a kind of bizarre glee in his eyes as he was kind of indulging this feeling of rage on like a random lady on the street at four o'clock on a Wednesday. Like, it was just really, really bizarre. And I was scared. I did think he was going to hit me and for what? So that he had a place to park so he could go to get a coffee, like <laugh>. It was just so, it was just so weird. And so it got me thinking about the kind of general states of rage that people are in. And I'm sure on some level our species has survived because of rage and anxiety continuing to propel us forward and innovate and whatever it takes to stay alive. But we don't need that anymore. And rage feels like a kind of ancient feeling that's no longer necessarily useful because it doesn't really accomplish anything.

Moby (00:11:16):

You're getting, you're getting to some of the research that I looked at and, um, wait,

Lindsay (00:11:21):

Do you have a rage story?

Moby (00:11:23):

Well, I've got my own personal rage stories where I've been enraged by things and in hindsight I don't understand what I was so mad about. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But of course I've been on the receiving end of rage. The all the ones I can think of are also car related. Interesting. And I was trying, I was like, oh man. Like, it's kind of like you are the band and you come out and open with a Beatles song. And I'm like, oh yeah, well I'm the, I'm like the warmup act going on afterwards. Like, your story is so dynamic, my stories are not as good. So basically, okay. I think of one, I thought of one, and this, there's a weird variable to this where I, well I was making a right turn onto a, a road Beachwood Canyon and there was some guy making a left turn through a red light. So he was doing something illegal, which cuz to safety, obvious, you're not allowed to go through a red light and you're not allowed to make a left turn through a red light. Yeah. And I was making a legal right turn on red. And as I saw what he was doing, I honked say like, what are you doing? Like, that's

Lindsay (00:12:23):

Very dangerous.

Moby (00:12:24):

This you're about to hit me. He followed me home. <laugh>. Yeah. Miles and miles. Like, he stayed on my bumper for miles and miles and miles. And as I pulled into my driveway, he pulled alongside me and he came to my window and started punching my window and I rolled my window down a little bit with my phone. I was like recording it. And I was like, you know, I'm, uh, I, I, I lied. I said, I'm live streaming this truth is, I don't know how to live stream <laugh>, but I said like, I'm live streaming this. Like, this is being documented. Like people are seeing what you're doing. And he was, and I also had, I had a video camera, I had a security camera outside of my house, outside of my driveway. This is when I lived way up at, uh, wolfs flair.

Moby (00:13:05):

And I pointed to that. I said, so I'm live streaming this, which wasn't true, but I was recording it and the camera was recording it. And I said, I said to him, if you attack me, you're being documented. You'll go to prison. He was more interested in punching my window and trying to kill me. That was his primary goal to the point where even being go going to prison was less important to him than trying to kill me because I had honked at him as he was going through a red light. Wow. And it was, but it was that moment where I was like, okay, first I was in my car. So I was relatively safe even though he was punching the window. And I just thought to myself, I was like, somehow the absurdity of it enabled me to stay calm. I was, I was like, wow, this is so ridiculous and so absurd. He's so attached to his anger. And I asked him, I said, I said, why are you so angry? Like, like you went through a red light. Why are you so angry? And that made, I realize if you really wanna make people angry, ask them why they're so angry. Yeah. So that's my story, which is a letdown after yours. Cuz like, clearly I was not being threatened, but I was just,

Lindsay (00:14:06):

He was punching your window.

Moby (00:14:07):

Punching my window. And the fact like, if I'd gotten outta my car, he would've done everything in his power to physically attack me. Yeah. And he was big, like, you know, like clearly bigger than me, stronger than me probably would've really hurt me had I gotten outta my car. And it sort of goes to the research that I did of like how rage hijacks the brain

Lindsay (00:14:26):

Are. Do you think that now would be a good time to pull out some of your Dante research?

Moby (00:14:33):

If you'd like me to? Sure. No,

Lindsay (00:14:34):

I'd really do because Okay. You know, I, because I have also experienced feelings of rage and I know that feeling of this adrenaline pumping, overwhelming, it's like, it's like a drug. So yeah. I'm interested in it.

Moby (00:14:48):

So I have, as someone who's fascinated with neurochemistry, I'm really fascinated with neural architecture, with the architecture of the brain and how certain parts of the brain, like certain systems are activated, oftentimes hijacking other systems and rage to your earlier point, like it's what kept our ancestors alive, probably. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you were being attacked, rage was your defense like going back hundreds of thousands, millions of years. Like a creature as we've seen with like whether it's cats or wasps or birds or dogs or whomever, like rage is universal. Seems like every creature is capable of rage. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And obviously there was a good survival benefit when it meant the difference between being killed and not killed. So regarding the neurochemistry, um, I was looking at one research paper and they found that when a brain is experiencing anger, blood is aggressively redirected away from the rational parts of the brain. Yeah. And I think it was like the more ancient parts of the brain mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so I'm just reading what was written here, but it, so it takes blood away from the left limbic region, the basal ganglia, the frontal lobe, and the parietal lobe. I would really sound smart if I knew how to pronounce parietal.

Lindsay (00:16:06):

I think it's parietal. Really? Okay. Yes. And I learned this from watching CSI.

Moby (00:16:10):

Okay. So the, that one, the parietal lobe <laugh>. So it takes blood away from those. And I know that I'd like the frontal lobe is the seat of reason mm-hmm. <affirmative> prefrontal cortex. Um, I believe it's kind of in your forehead where your third eye would be

Lindsay (00:16:25):

And isn't fully formed until you're 25. Did you know that? Really?

Moby (00:16:27):

I did not know that. Yeah. That's interesting. And I know that it can be like, the growth of it can be inhibited by like toxins and all mm-hmm. <affirmative>, cigarette smoke, all sorts of things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Lindsay (00:16:35):

Sugary cereals. Actually, I dunno if that's true. I'm just trying to figure out a reason. I'm so dom <laugh>.

Moby (00:16:41):

Um, and then it takes blood to the more sort of primal parts of the brain. Like the amygdala, which is the seat of fear and anxiety is lit up like crazy when the brain's experiencing rage. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is just my research. If there's a neurochemist out there who says I'm wrong, by all means tell me that I'm wrong. But it makes so much sense. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that basically like, so when you were experiencing that, when that, when that guy was ready to attack you over a parking spot at 4:00 PM on a Wednesday on in sunny Los Angeles, or when this guy was ready to go to prison and just so he could express his rage to me, it's like, yeah. Their seat of reason has been shut down. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like they're, they're not rational. Or like, when we're experiencing rage, we are not rational. Then this is why I was so excited and fascinated to talk about this is the absurdity of rage in this culture. Because if you take a step back and look at it, it only rage is a harmful experience. Like it hurts the body. Like it, the person is experiencing it. Like, it, it,

Lindsay (00:17:45):

It's a stress. It stresses the body out. And yes, I under, like, there's so many things I'm rageful about. There's so many political things I have rage about. There's so many wrongs happening in this world that I feel rage about, but my rage doesn't make it better. The only thing that would make it better is the rational part of my brain actually doing something about it. But it's really hard to do when I'm in my rage place, you know? Well

Moby (00:18:11):

That's, yeah. And I, I wanted in a very helpful, hopefully helpful way for us to talk about how to address rage. Like what are some healthy ways for us to deal with it when, or someone listening to deal with it when they experience rage mm-hmm. <affirmative> or just intense anger. And what I, again, in my research, but also in my experience is our brains, and I think I've talked about this before, but this is something that fascinates me so much. Our brain, it's so complicated, this phenomenally intricate computer, but it has no direct experience of the world. Everything the brain thinks, everything the brain feels it's a result of chemicals. Yeah. It's from adrenaline, it's from dopamine, it's from serotonin, it's from, you know, all these impulses being fed to the brain. And the brain has had three and a half billion years to figure out appropriate responses. And for most of those three and a half billion years, the brain responded rationally. Mm-hmm. Like when the brain was flooded with catecholamines. That's what causes rage. That it's like the adrenaline, uh, that's

Lindsay (00:19:18):

The chemical that causes it.

Moby (00:19:19):

The class of chemical. Yeah. Okay. It's in a fun word, catecholamine. I'm just proud of myself cause I couldn't say per par peral per parietal parietal. But I can say catecholamine except I'm probably pronouncing it wrong too, but I, it just sounds nice. Catecholamines. So the brain is flooded with these chemicals and for three and a half billion years it was right, basically meaning if it was flooded with those chemicals, it meant there was a threat, there was a, a threat to everything and you had to respond immediately and accordingly. But now the brain is flooded in, what's the word I'm gonna say?

Lindsay (00:19:57):

Catecholamines.

Moby (00:19:58):

Yeah. The brain is flooded in catecholamines when someone takes your park or someone, someone has a parking space you want. Yeah. Or when someone bumps you in a nightclub or when we read something on social media and the brain is like, okay, this mechanism has served us so well for three and a half billion years, how could it be wrong? But now it's always wrong. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, unless you're walking down an alley and someone tries to stab you, you know, then the catecholamine response would be Correct. Yeah. But that's 0.000000, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh 1% of the time. And the truth is, if something was a true physical threat, I don't think I'd respond with rage. I'd respond with either like fight or flight. You know, like if a bear attacked me, I wouldn't be mad at the bear. I wouldn't scream at the bear. I'd be like scared.

Lindsay (00:20:47):

I would be pretty mad at the bear <laugh>.

Moby (00:20:50):

So that's what really fascinates me is that like the consequence is it's war, it's rape, it's violence, it's, I mean, how the hospitals are just filled with road rage incidents with every, everything is rage and it's always wrong.

Lindsay (00:21:07):

It's fascinating. But also everyone has their survival mechanisms. They just want to survive. And when I think about this guy who I thought was gonna hit me because of a parking spot, I was like, I wonder what happened to him today. I wonder if maybe he was going to meet a potential business partner for a deal that might get him enough money so that he could pay his rent the next month. Or if he was going to meet with his ex-wife who he's been paying way too much or not enough child support to, or, you know what I mean? Like he was having some survival situation. So here's the thing. But then I became the one that he projected all of that onto

Moby (00:21:50):

Whatever it was. Okay. So I appreciate that you are being, you're willing to even extend a little bit of sort of understanding and kindness to him, but, well,

Lindsay (00:21:59):

I'm not, it's not kindness. I think kindness and understanding aren't necessarily the same thing. Thing, passion. Think he's an and I called him a dick twice. Yeah. Um, <laugh>. But

Moby (00:22:07):

Here's, here's the thing that I will, and I really appreciate your trying to, you know, we'll say like understand or qualify his anger, but even so it doesn't excuse it, but more likely nothing happened. Yeah. More likely. And this is what is also so interesting that we're not even aware of, is our ancestors, they spent a lot of time being bored. They spent a lot of time sitting and doing nothing. And as a result, their parasympathetic nervous system was pretty dominant. So if they were angry, it was for a good reason. If they were anxious, it was for a good reason. If they were afraid it was for a good reason. But the majority of the time they sat there looking at some trees or they sat there looking at a field or they just is like a lot of sitting and resting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Moby (00:22:56):

So the guy who tried to attack you on the street is probably just a normal person where he woke up after a bad night's sleep, possibly medicated, immediately grabbed his phone and started like looking at information that like made him angry off the bat or like upset or, or even at the very least stimulated, you know, in a way that he felt like overwhelmed. And then for breakfast had some food that didn't nourish him and maybe some coffee and some sugar that also excited in a bad way. His adrenal system creating catacholamines and then gets into his car and is thinking about like all the things that are wrong. He hates his job, you know, he feels unhappy. Then he gets to work and he's disrespected at work and he doesn't feel like he has control and he's worrying about money stuff. And then he goes to lunch and he eats food that makes him even more agitated.

Moby (00:23:49):

Like he has like a hamburger and a milkshake. So by the time he's reached you, he's just in a state of constant agitation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But nothing's happened. Um, I saw an acupuncturist a few years ago who practiced like traditional medicine. Uh, he was a vegan so he wasn't using like deer hooves and stuff, but he was talking about this, about how not just western culture, but human culture at this point is a state of constant agitation. And it's not how we're designed mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, we're designed to rest a lot. We're designed to sleep a lot like our ancestors. It got dark, they went to sleep, it got light, they woke up cuz you couldn't walk, you couldn't do anything at night back then. Yeah. So we're just, and that agitation manifests as depression when the agitation burns us out. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> it manifests as anxiety and it manifests as rage. I'm so glad that you brought this up. Cause I think it's such a fascinating subject.

Lindsay (00:24:43):

It's also, and I I I noticed it a lot in the pandemic. How many people attacked flight attendants? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or, or servers or people working at the grocery store? N there was a story about a woman who had to duct tape a guy to his seat. Yeah. Because they couldn't get him to calm down because he kept groping and trying to assault the flight attendants.

Moby (00:25:04):

Definitely. And it comes down to the control aspect. Like when this guy wanted your parking space, he was like, how dare you prevent me from control controlling my environment. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And maybe that's why cars, maybe this is self-evident, but maybe that's why cars feature in so much rage because for a lot of people, a car is control mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it's this fascinating paradox where like the car is control in a barely controlled environment. Like you're in your car that you control, but you're in traffic which is completely out of her control. And so like people are like, I control this, but I don't. So thus road rage, like these examples of people shooting each other because they didn't like the way the other person was driving. How do you even wrap your head around that?

Lindsay (00:25:49):

Yeah. Because I think about, you know, being on an airplane, you're obviously incredibly out of control on an airplane. You just gotta sit back and let them do their thing. But I also think about politically and people having so much rage at drag queens and trans children that they want to harm them and keep them. You know what I mean? Like w why Yeah. Because you don't understand it because it makes you feel out of control.

Moby (00:26:17):

And that was the, the evil genius of Trump was playing into that, you know, recognizing there are all these like frustrated, angry people. All he had to do was show up and be as angry as they are and they're like, oh, he's our savior. Because

Lindsay (00:26:27):

It's the magic formula of you think the world is evolving past where you are and I'm going to make sure that I show you how much that is true and how angry you should be about it and what to do to prevent becoming irrelevant. Yep.

Moby (00:26:40):

So then it leads us to my, one of my guilty rage rabbit holes is like the world of politics. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or animal rights or climate change and all of these things are terrible. Yeah. You know, like the, like the way animals are treated is terrible. The way people treat the environment and the climate is terrible. The way people treat each other as terrible. Our political system is broken and dysfunctional. And so one could argue that rage or anger is a rational response to these things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Except that it's pointless. It's that old expression. What is it holding onto anger is like drinking poison to make someone else sick. You've heard that

Lindsay (00:27:20):

A hundred percent. Yeah. I

Moby (00:27:22):

Am so guilty of this and I know that, I know that you are as well. Like, open up your laptop, open up your phone, read the news and read something about some miscarriage of justice, some mm-hmm. <affirmative> violence, another shooting an animals being abused, the climate being destroyed. And like the response is that helpless anger. And when I was preparing for today's podcast, I just kept remembering the serenity prayer except the things I can't control, which seems like so defeatist and giving up. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like to be confronted with injustice and to try and accept it seems so wrong, but what good comes from being angry while we're staring at our phones.

Lindsay (00:28:02):

Yeah. But then there's also the wisdom to know the difference between the things you can change and the things that you can't. And that's where it gets a little tricky because, you know, when I read about, I read this story about a woman who left her 16 month old baby alone. Alone. So she Yeah, I saw that in the apartment so she could go on a vacation and I was like, oh my god, that makes me so mad. Oh it's, it's so sick and so infuriating and the baby died. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> of dehydration. Like, it's just so sad. So I was like, I'm so, so mad. And then I was like, okay, that happened and it's terrible, but what can change? Is there some legislation? You know what I mean? Is there like Child protective services should be doing a better d like what, where does attention need to go? Could I do anything? And the answer is, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if I can do anything, vote for people that are pro children, but now that's a tricky thing too. <laugh>,

Moby (00:28:56):

You know? Yeah. Cause ostensibly like Q Anon is pro children. Yeah. Even though they're saint is Trump who hung out with Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, it's that, yeah, it's that really fascinating question cuz like we can identify some expressions of rage that are clearly wrong. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like the guy ready to get in a fight with you or me over traffic stuff. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, um, people willing to like kill each other in a bar because someone bumped into your, stepped on your shoes. Right. You know, like there's stuff that's like clearly wrong, but then what if it's righteous rage? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, as you mentioned, like, like if I read about animals being mistreated mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if I read about, you know, environmentalists who go to McDonald's, I'm like, I get so angry. But that's where I think you have, it almost enters the realm of like incredibly skillful self-awareness, which I'm hopefully trying to develop of like having a reaction, looking at the reaction and then asking yourself, okay, is it within my power to turn this reaction into something effective, something meaningful? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Otherwise you're just pouring gasoline on a tire fire.

Lindsay (00:30:08):

Yeah. It's also something I've been trying to implement into my life, which is a little bit what you're saying is that these extreme responses, can I look at them as information? Can I be a kind of like non-judgmental observer of the feeling and get the information that I need? Is there, is there some part of myself I need to give attention to or heal? Or is there something actionable that I can do? Because clearly I want something to change. So I'm trying to just be more observant of the feelings as as powerful information. Mm-hmm. As opposed to indulging in the feeling itself.

Moby (00:30:43):

It reminds me of two things. One, my mom was a very angry person. Mm-hmm. Very prone to anger and, sorry mom, I don't wanna malign poor mom, but like, she indulged it. She lo like she loved her anger. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:31:00):

I think a lot of people do. It feels good to act on your angry feelings sometimes.

Moby (00:31:05):

Yeah. I mean that's the Trump presidency, you'll

Lindsay (00:31:07):

Regret it every time unless you're a, a psychopath,

Moby (00:31:09):

You know? But yeah. That, that's almost every movie involves sort of like acting on that impulsive anger. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, you know, vanquishing evil. But then she read a, a study in the seventies, like some hippie had some research paper about how indulging anger was good for you. And, and this was kind of like saying to like Donald Trump, like, eating bacon and chocolate cake is good for you. Like, she was like, she grabbed onto this. Mm-hmm. And so if I ever tried to like challenge her anger, she had read this one study that said that she should be angry that it was, she was supposed to indulge it. And I find that like when you indulge something, it state the obvious can become habitual and with her it just became she was dominated by it. Yeah. But the idea of strategic anger reminds me of one of my favorite clash lyrics, which is anger can be power if you know how to use it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that ideally that's what where we would all get to that point as you're describing like the awareness of the rage response and the ability to step back and say, okay, is this a rational response? You know? And if it is, how do I translate this into effective action? There's this,

Lindsay (00:32:24):

This poster or art piece that you gave me by Shepherd Ferry that has these like two cool looking ladies on it. And, but on the piece it says knowledge plus action equals power. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I've been looking at it every day since you gave it to me like three years ago or something. And I, this conversation makes me think about that because I do think that anger, if used correctly can give you both the knowledge and the, the action. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it can, it can propel you and also give you so much information about things that you think could be better, you know? Mm-hmm.

Moby (00:32:59):

<affirmative>, I completely agree. But it, it's also like right now we're sitting in a nice comfortable studio. You had a little snack bar, I had a cup of tea.

Lindsay (00:33:09):

Little fake thing. It was so

Moby (00:33:10):

Good. I had some lunch earlier, like, I'm fed, I slept reasonably well last night. Like

Lindsay (00:33:16):

The dogs are

Moby (00:33:17):

Just, dogs are huddles and

Lindsay (00:33:18):

Cuddled

Moby (00:33:18):

Up. Um, so like, it's one of those things we've talked about before. It's like, so you, we become aware of the correct response of the, like what tools to use, but I wonder how well I'll be able to hold onto this the next time I'm filled with rage over something.

Lindsay (00:33:37):

It's so hard. But something that I realized is that you can't do this kind of thinking or this kind of work if you're triggered, which is a lot of time times. The only time you'll think about, yeah. I don't wanna feel like this anymore is when you are feeling like that. And I think that if you can do the work when you feel fine, when you're safe and when you're calm, if you can do that kind of like reframing before something happens, that's the only time you can really exer exercise that muscle. You know?

Moby (00:34:06):

And one thing I'll add to that, cause I agree completely, is having a planned, almost like emergency response, you know, like knowing, for example, we, we do it all the time. Like if you're a performer, you practice before you go on stage. Like you don't say to yourself, Hey, I'll figure it out when I'm on stage. Like, you make sure the songs are written, the choreography, I don't know, I don't know choreography, but like basically

Lindsay (00:34:30):

<laugh> though, you should start incorporating choreography into

Moby (00:34:33):

Your stuff. No, <laugh>, uh, or like, I guess martial arts, like they, you, you practice in a calm environment before you're, or even the military, like you, the idea is you practice, practice, practice so that when you're confronted with the adverse situation, the stressful situation, you're prepared mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So for me, and I'd love to hear if you have any skills or that you rely on, but for me, one of them is the simplest question that's always available to me if I'm anxious, if I'm depressed, if I'm filled with rage, whatever is what's actually going on right now mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because that I can always get there. It's not too aspirational, it's like meaning what's going on? Like if I'm lying in bed and I'm angry about something, I'm like, okay, what's actually going on? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, where am I, what do I see? What do I like? What does, what does my bed feel like mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Or if I'm sitting at my laptop and I'm angry about something, I'm like, okay, I'm at my kitchen table. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'm fed, I'm comfortable, I can see trees. Um, you know, this is actually a safe place and that is my, that's my easily accessible way of diffusing a lot of irrational, unhealthy stuff like rage and anxiety. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Lindsay (00:35:51):

I've noticed in my relationship with my boyfriend, things will start to go a little askew and he'll be like, I just want you to notice that you haven't taken a deep breath in like two minutes. Yeah. And I will take some deep breaths and realize that my, my whole body shut down to the point where I was only getting these little tiny shallow breaths. And if I can take a moment to just breathe and kind of trick my body into deep breaths, it starts to kind of have a, a reverse reaction where my body starts to act like I'm calm because I'm taking breaths like I do when I'm calm. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I can't ask myself a question when I'm in one of those feelings or in, in that space. I mean, when I'm in that space, I can't ask myself what's really going on because I don't know, because I am so out of the room that I can't have that rational conversation with myself quite yet. My first step has to be, can I take enough deep breaths to where I remember that I'm a spirit in a brain, in a body on earth. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> in a univer. Like I just, you know, yeah. The physical thing has to get me back so I can talk to myself.

Moby (00:36:59):

Which is funny cuz to me the simple question of like, where am I? What's going on? Is more like the idea of breathing that seems like too ambitious. <laugh>, if I'm filled with rage or whatever, I'm like, okay, slowing down to breathe if like, again, if it works for you, great. But to me that's almost like higher level.

Lindsay (00:37:18):

Well I can't do the thing that you're saying of I can't get my brain to function that way until I have been able to calm my nervous system down a little bit. Hmm.

Moby (00:37:27):

I would say if it works,

Lindsay (00:37:30):

Whatever works and you have to try it out because I've tried the one thing didn't work, tried a different thing. Oh, that's a little bit helpful. But also I was with someone that was able to kind of like help me with it. I don't know if I would've come to that on my own.

Moby (00:37:42):

And another thing that's worth mentioning, and this is one of the reasons I find this so fascinating, it's horrifying, but fascinating is the mindfulness of like, and I know mindfulness is an overused word, but the mindfulness of like being at my kitchen table, reading something on in the New York Times, it fills me with rage and realizing like my brain has just been hijacked by information mm-hmm. <affirmative>, while I'm completely ignoring what's actually around me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like I'm ignoring, we've talked about this before, like I'm ignoring the trees that I can see. I'm ignoring the fact that I've got a belly full of food. I'm ignoring the fact that my, you know, if it's winter, my house is relatively warm, I'm ignoring all these physical things that are real and my brain is completely comprehensively hijacked by this anxiety, depression or, or anger. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the absurdity of that personally helps me to not indulge it as much mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Because once you stop taking it seriously, once you recognize that it's, I'm just talking about my own rage, it's ridiculous. Yeah. And so recognizing how a 99.999% of the time rage is ridiculous. I'm speaking of for myself. Like, I don't wanna be so presumptuous as to say your rage or other people's rage. But when I look at it, it's based on a conditioned response. It's not based on reality.

Lindsay (00:39:03):

Yeah. Especially when the rational response would be, Hey, that doesn't work for me. Can I find a situation that does, can I fix this in a way that does work for me? Like if that guy would have calmly said to me, Hey, I really need a spot. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'm something urgent is happening and I don't know what to do, it would've been a whole different situation. You know what I mean?

Moby (00:39:27):

You're absolutely right. So one, his actions were completely counterproductive. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> two, he ran the risk of going to jail, getting in serious trouble. Like if he had hit someone or if he had hit you. And three, his stress response messed up his immune system. You know, not, not even a spiritual aspect of like bringing all this negativity to the world and like you're a complete stranger and he was ready to get in a fight with you and yell at you. But like the fact that he was hurting himself Yeah. And potentially hurting. I mean, how how many people are in prison right now as a result of a rage mistake? Yeah. You know, the person who was in the bar who got in a fight and accidentally killed someone mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, the person who shot their neighbor because the neighbor was playing music too loud or something.

Moby (00:40:13):

Like, it makes it easier to sort of take a step back and be like, oh, this rage response, it really, it only hurts the person who's having it and, and the people who are on the receiving end of it as well. It reminds me a little bit when I was thinking about your guy with the parking space mm-hmm. <affirmative> of, there's an old Buddhist story that I've probably shared because I don't have that many stories. Um, is that the idea that like a guy is in a canoe and someone swims up to his canoe and knocks it over and so the guy gets super wet and he's cold and he's muddy and he's so mad at that guy for knocking over his canoe, how dare you knock over my canoe? Same story, except this time it was a log that knocked over the canoe. The guy wouldn't be mad. He ends up the same, he ends up like muddy and cold and wet. But like in one case he's furious and the other, he's just like, oh, it happens. So imagine if instead of you having that parking space, there hadn't been a parking space, or imagine if there had been like a city worker or like if it'd been chewed up from like a construction, we wouldn't have been mad. Yeah. The exact same end result. He couldn't park there. Okay. So now good. Now we're both enlightened. Um,

Lindsay (00:41:20):

Well, you know, the next time

Moby (00:41:21):

We've transcended rage, we've transcended base human impulses and we are now existing in the plane of angels. And if you dare challenge me, I will mess you up.

Lindsay (00:41:34):

<laugh>, I will punch you on the street at four o'clock on a Wednesday. <laugh>. So Moby, I thought that it might be kind of fun to talk about luxury items. And I say that because I personally love luxury items. I mean, I don't have a lot, but I like them in theory and I have, you know, I'm like, one day I'll have a Marvel bathtub, you know what I mean? Stuff like that. I'll go on a cruise to Cancun. Okay. Not that, but you know, something nice. I'll go on the, I'll go to the a party on the ub or if that is the thing. <laugh>.

Moby (00:42:24):

Um,

Lindsay (00:42:25):

I love the idea of luxury items personally.

Moby (00:42:28):

I'm just thinking of other places like that have the oo sound like

Lindsay (00:42:32):

You could go

Moby (00:42:32):

To Tulum or Cancun or the UB or inner tubing on the ub. Okay. So yeah, so luxury items,

Lindsay (00:42:41):

I love them. You are a person that has worked very, very hard in your life for a very long time and are in a place where you could probably spring for some luxury items. And yet you don't in the, in the seven or eight years that I've known you, I don't think I've seen you buy a new shirt. I think I saw you buy a new pair of shoes and a new pair of pants once. You don't really buy you clothes. You are, you are a minimalist in your design. You are a minimalist in your consumerism. And I guess I just have a question, which is why are you like that <laugh>

Moby (00:43:12):

<laugh>? Uh, wow. I, I, okay, so this has been a recurring question that I've been asked by friends for a long time. I mean, it started even when I was living in my abandoned factory in the late eighties. My cousins came to visit me and I remember my cousin Ben, who was pretty young at the time. He was like, why do you live here? It's scary. And I was like, oh, I guess he's right because I, I mean, I was broke. I was making $2,500 a year, but I could have afforded something more than squatting in an abandoned factory. I could have moved home, I could have lived with my grandmother, I could have lived with some friends, but instead I chose to live in an abandoned factory with no heat or I didn't have a bathroom and it was in a crack neighborhood and it was violent.

Moby (00:43:58):

People got murdered there. But I loved it because it felt right. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I, I don't, so it's very subjective. So when he said that, I was like, oh, objectively I understand why he would say that. Like it was a scary neighborhood. A scary, weird old building. I lived in a dirty, weird space, but for some reason I was okay with it. So there's the subjective aspect of it. But then I guess the other side of it is twofold and sorry for, sorry if I ramble on a little bit too much about this, but one is the role of evidence. And so basically life provides us with evidence or it provides us with ambition and aspiration. Meaning like, people look at something and they think to themselves like, wow, if only I could have a private plane, things would be so much better. Or if only I could go on a red carpet thing at the Grammy's, things would be so much better.

Moby (00:44:53):

The weird thing is I've experienced all those things mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I didn't, they just, they weren't great. Like, I've been to the fanciest parties, I've stayed in the nicest hotels, I've been to the fanciest red carpet events. I've, and hopefully it doesn't sound like I'm bragging. And one of the things I'm very grateful for is I now have like a solid empirical base that makes it easy to not romanticize these things. So I think that's, it's the evidence aspect of it. It, it's interesting. A lot of luxury things, a lot of aspirational things are sold on narrative without reality. Or maybe originally they were sold for evidence. Like for example, couple hundred years ago, if you wanted to have a full color representation of a cat in your house, you needed to hire a great painter to do it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, now you take a picture with your phone and, but yet, and I love painting, but people still, people are like, people think painting still has value, whereas like it had a specific utility 2, 3, 400 years ago, that utility is gone.

Moby (00:45:59):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> now the only utility of painting is the subjective perspective of the artist and the uniqueness fact that that one painting is the only version of that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So there's that aspect of it. Like, for example, a watch, and this, this leads to my hopefully last long-winded rambling explanation of maybe why I don't like luxury stuff is a hundred years ago, if you wanted a watch that told great time, you had to get a Swiss watch, you know, and it, and it'd be very expensive. Like one of those, I don't even know those Swiss, Swiss watch companies mm-hmm. <affirmative> because that was the, the, the alternative was nothing. The alternative was like a sundial or, or some broken down old watch that you'd have to wind every now and then, you'd

Lindsay (00:46:43):

Have to go into the town square

Moby (00:46:44):

To check the, you know. Yes. Ask the town crier. Yeah. <laugh> like, hey town crier Forsooth. What timest hast though? <laugh>? So a Swiss watch had that specific utility. It told the time really well now I don't wanna malign the world of expensive watches, but they tell time worse than your phone. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, a cheap Casio tells time better than one of the most expensive watches on the planet. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But yet people still value those expensive watches. And that leads me to the last part of why I don't like luxury things is, and maybe I've told this story, if so, I apologize. But when I first moved to LA, I was sitting by the pool cuz my house then had a pool, which I'm embarrassed of this house? No, the, the old one. Uhhuh. And I was sitting by the pool and I was reading some magazine and I just planted a bunch of trees. If I told this story,

Lindsay (00:47:39):

I

Moby (00:47:39):

Don't know. Okay. I tell the same stories over and over again. <laugh>. So, okay. So I'm sitting by the pool reading a magazine, looking at these trees that we've just planted. And there was an ad in the magazine for a very expensive watch, like some gold super, I don't wanna name brand names cuz just like, I don't wanna offend Taylor Swift fans. I don't wanna offend anyone because I don't need enemies. I don't need more enemies except for McDonald's and Burger King and the Trumps. So it was almost this like cartoonish look at one thing, look at the other. So I was looking at this picture of like a $50,000 watch that was being advertised I think in, in the New Yorker. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then just past, it was a tree that I had just planted and the tree was $20. And I looked at the watch $50,000 and I looked at the tree, $20, I looked at the watch $50,000 and the tree $20.

Moby (00:48:31):

And all of a sudden I realized like, here's the watch, it's dead. Like it is pointless. Like it tells time worse than my phone and it's heavy and it's literally dead. Well I dunno about dead cuz dead implies that it was ever alive. But like it's made out of metal, which is fine, but it's never, it doesn't do anything, you know, it serves, no, it has no remarkable purpose as opposed to the tree, which was $20 could be there for the next 150 years, turned tons of carbon dioxide into oxygen. It can bring nutrients into the soil, it can cool the air, it can provide home for insects and birds and pollinators. And I just had this moment of why in the world is the tree like 10,000 times less expensive than a dead watch? So that was a big part of it. I was like, it's the utility of things. Yeah. Wow. I feel like I've rambled on for 500 hours now, but like, so it makes it easier to reject it when you've seen it up close, you've seen it firsthand and you've seen that it simply doesn't work. Yeah. Granted, I could occasionally buy a new shirt, but the shirts I have are fi they only have some holes in them.

Lindsay (00:49:43):

<laugh>,

Moby (00:49:44):

Like, this one doesn't look too

Lindsay (00:49:45):

Me. That's got some holes up top. That said, I still now wanna just go party on the Danube

Moby (00:49:52):

<laugh> or other places with the U Sound. <laugh> Minchin

Lindsay (00:49:58):

Chen <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:50:09):

So Moby, I just need a little bit of fun time clarification. Okay. So you are an unbelievably prolific music creator, which is so cool and so fun to watch. And it's amazing to see these singers come over and you're constantly creating and you are finding new and interesting places to put this music. And sometimes, even though I'm very aware of your work, don't know all of the things that you have going on. And I, if I think if I don't, and I'm with you most days, uh, that people listening may not also, so I thought it might be really helpful if you can kind of talk about what you have going on musically right now and what's coming up and just give us a kind of state of affairs of the musical world of Moby.

Moby (00:51:01):

Okay. And I do agree that I'm prolific. Luckily that doesn't speak to the quality of what I make <laugh>, but I do make a lot of things. And I was talking to someone yesterday, like they were sort of asking like, how, how do you, where do you find the time to make so much stuff? And there's two aspects to that that we've sort of talked about. One is, for me, work is refuge. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, the outside world is threatening and terrifying and confusing and depressing. Working on music, working on creative projects. Like for me, that's my, that's my refuge. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I don't think of it as an obligation or a duty or a job. To me it's like going into my studio, working on music is like, it's monastic. It's, it's mm-hmm. The, it's, I don't even know how to describe. It's like a, it's like a, cuz spiritual is such an overused word, but yeah. It's my refuge. And the other aspect is I don't tour. So you think of like, most musicians, like, they go on tour and like you're giving up years of your life.

Lindsay (00:51:58):

You're not really creating much or you're not laying down tracks. Yeah. Cuz all you're doing is just performing, performing, performing. Traveling, traveling, traveling.

Moby (00:52:05):

Yeah. Just travel and performing, sitting in hotels, watching cnn, sitting in cars, going to a venue. And I'm not, there's nothing wrong with it, but you don't, it

Lindsay (00:52:13):

Sounds so fun. You Oh, you, you hate it. Hate, but it sounds so fun to me.

Moby (00:52:17):

You definitely, but you don't get much. You're just being shuttled around from place to place. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It doesn't matter if you're in a little punk rock band or if you're in Metallica, like you're going from place to place and there's a good chance you're not getting, you're, the only thing that's expected of you on tour is to occasionally talk about your yourself to journalists and to stand on stage and play songs which is great, but at the end of it you're like, okay, what do I have to show for it? Like I've made, maybe made some money, played some nice shows, but I don't, I haven't written anything new. I haven't done anything. So the fact that I don't tour means I have all this extra time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Then also I don't date. So think of all the time that people spend dating and I don't do that.

Moby (00:52:53):

So that gives me a lot of extra time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I don't travel for fun and I barely socialize and I'm sober. So I have all the time that most people would spend like, and I don't judge them cuz I used to do all this stuff, but like traveling, dating, socializing, touring, all that time. Now I have to work on music and creative stuff. Yeah. And it's great. I guess over time I've just learned that staying home and working on music for me is more fulfilling and more satisfying than any of those other things. You know, touring, dating, socializing, et cetera. So that's where all the extra time comes from and the fact that like, work is my refuge, possibly. Like someone accused me of being a workaholic and I was like, am I, I guess yeah. Cause I, I, if you said to me like, don't work for a month, I wouldn't know what to do.

Moby (00:53:43):

Yeah. Go hiking, look at Trees, pet Bagel. Maybe occasionally like clean my kitchen <laugh>. Okay. But to your earlier question that I self-involved went on a tangent around, uh, so let's look at a year, we'll start with last December mm-hmm. <affirmative> and we'll go to this current December mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. Last December I put out an ambient album called Ambient 23. And then I started a record label called Always Centered At Night. And we released a few more, Always Centered at Night singles and then released the punk rock vegan movie and then released Resound: NYC with Deutsche Grammophon. And now I'm starting another label called in.ch.08 and that's sort of like an experimental ish electronic music label. Then we have more always entered at night songs coming up. Here's a biggie that I haven't announced yet, so maybe I shouldn't say it but I'll announce.

Moby (00:54:34):

Anyways. I started this project about 15 years ago called moby grodi.com that gives free music a away to filmmakers, film students, et cetera. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we're doing an expanded version of Moby Gratis that's gonna involve ultimately over a thousand free songs. Wow. So it's like a thousand free pieces of music that people can use however they want. The only, the only exceptions are you can't use it to promote right wing politics and you can't use it to promote meat, dairy, `or leather. But otherwise it'll be free for whatever people wanna do with it. Then we're putting out the Always Centered at Night album, more new songs on in.ch.08 And then hopefully next December, if I can make it good, I'll be putting out an app cuz I'm building an ambient music app. The only problem is, I don't know if it's good, meaning I don't know if it's better than just streaming ambient music. So we're working on that and if I, if we can make it good, we'll release it and if not, it will never see the light of day because there's already lots of ambient music to listen to. So that's, I'm sure there's more, but that's December to December, that's

Lindsay (00:55:42):

A lot. That's a lot of things because all of those things are not just one thing. Like in always internet night, there's constant work being done on that and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, when does the final album, is there an album that will come out of all this?

Moby (00:55:53):

Yeah, the album is gonna come out I think in November. What is

Lindsay (00:55:56):

The, so the label is Always Centered at nNght, so what will the album,

Moby (00:55:59):

It will be all of the tracks that have been released on Always Centered at Night thus far compiled in one place. What

Lindsay (00:56:04):

Will you call the album?

Moby (00:56:06):

Always Centered at Night Volume One. Does that seem okay? Okay.

Lindsay (00:56:09):

Oh, it'll just be by volumes if

Moby (00:56:10):

That's, I mean I hadn't really thought about it, but probably

Lindsay (00:56:14):

Pro, probably <laugh>. Um, no, I just didn't know if, cuz I'm still learning sometimes if, if a label is the name of the, you know what I mean? I just didn't know if there was some sort of difference because if you're under Deutsche Grammophon as a label, you're not gonna call the album Deutsche Grammophon. You might call it Deutsche Grammophon, like whatever volumes if they did that. But yeah, I don't know. I'm just trying to understand. Yeah,

Moby (00:56:37):

I guess it, you're right because in this way, like Always Centered at Night, it's the label, but it's also sort of the artist. Yeah. So it's like Always Centered at Night as the artist track name featuring Moby and Lady Blackbird or Moby and Danielle Ponder or whomever or Serpent With Feet. But it's always centered at night as the label, but it's also a little bit an alter ego, I guess. Cause I'm, I'm also the musician on all the tracks. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I guess it's also sort of me. I

Lindsay (00:57:06):

Think it's very cool. That's also something that I love about the way you work and the way you do music is that you aren't necessarily tied to convention. You kind of just do whatever you want to creatively, not in like Bratty Child way in a way of like, if you have a creative impulse, you are very good at making it happen to completion, which is a very rare thing. I think. I, I don't think a lot of people do that.

Moby (00:57:34):

Well, part of it is because the music landscape, the commercial music landscape is, it's geared towards 19 year old pop stars. Yeah. I'm not criticizing it, but that's just, that's the musical landscape. And I am not a 19 year old pop star, which makes it easy for me to ignore the sort of like, conventional way in which people release music. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Cause I certainly can't compete with that, nor would I want to. So it just means like, oh, okay, well I'm not a 19 year old pop star. I don't want to be a 19 year old pop star. I don't wanna release music that way, so I'm just gonna release music. However makes sense. Like the ambient stuff, like the first ambient, long ambient record, we just gave it away on the Little Pine website when Little Pine existed. When the focus is making music and not necessarily trying to monetize it commercially, it creates complete freedom in terms of releasing things. Oh. Also, I left out a couple other things, <laugh>. So there's um, an Australian producer named Luude who did a song with me and Issey Cross, and that was a surprisingly successful almost pop drum and bass track.

Lindsay (00:58:41):

Luude like Quaalude?

Moby (00:58:42):

L U U D E. Yeah. Cool. And then I also did a song with, uh, Nicola, who's the singer from a French band called Indochine. Oh yeah.

Lindsay (00:58:51):

Yeah.

Moby (00:58:52):

So there's, there's, yeah, there's a lot. There's been a lot going on and I understand why no one apart from me would be aware of the majority of it. And

Lindsay (00:59:01):

Don't forget our album about an opera about a rat with corn on its teeth. Smiling.

Moby (00:59:07):

Yeah. We wrote our song <laugh> our documented song. Hopefully there'll be more of those. Oh, I will say that, and I don't know if you've said this is we want to do that, have that approach on other podcast episodes where we basically start from scratch and write a song, but we wanna do it in other genres. So I'm gonna ask the people who are listening, please write in and tell us what genres we should do next, whether it's like country western, whether it's, I would say hip hop, but no one needs to hear that. So no

Lindsay (00:59:36):

One needs to hear us do hip hop <laugh>.

Moby (00:59:38):

But it could be like pop music, it could be dance music, it can be a punk rock song. It could be basically just right in smooth jazz. Smooth jazz. It can be bossanova, it can be any genre apart. I

Lindsay (00:59:51):

Love, I can't really do a death metal voice. Can you do that? Oh,

Moby (00:59:53):

I can do a death metal voice. You can, yeah. Uh, but if I do it right, what if I hurt my throat? It

Lindsay (00:59:57):

Hurts. You don't wanna get nodes.

Moby (00:59:59):

You want Should I do a death metal? Yeah. Tell me, tell me to do something death metal and I'll

Lindsay (01:00:02):

Okay. Is it gonna scare bagel? I hope not. Okay, let's,

Moby (01:00:05):

Let's hear it. But I I'll do it quiet. I'll do quiet. Death metal. Okay. What am I gonna say?

Lindsay (01:00:09):

Don't throw my baby out the window.

Moby (01:00:12):

Don't throw my baby out the window.

Lindsay (01:00:20):

Yeah, no, I like that. I think it's okay.

Moby (01:00:21):

Okay. It's also, if I was to ever, like, if they remake 30 Rock and if Jack Donaghy and Devon Banks have a deep voice competition, maybe with Batman I could

Moby (01:00:31):

Break out my Batman voice. Linds. My name is Cornman.

Lindsay (01:00:36):

My name is

Moby (01:00:37):

Corn Tooth <laugh>.

Moby (01:00:40):

My, my name is Corn Tooth

Lindsay (01:00:42):

<laugh>.

Moby (01:01:00):

So thank you guys for listening. Thank you Lindsay. And thank you Bagel And Lucy, before we say goodbye, I wanted to say regarding rage, regarding emotions is one. I would say to to anybody who struggles with these emotions. Like one, know that you're not alone. We all struggle with them. But also if you are really plagued by depression, anxiety, anger, any of these, you know, really potentially destructive emotions. There are lots of resources, you know. And so one, recognize that everybody experiences these, but if you're really, really having a hard time, please look into all of the resources that are out there that are available. Like, for example, bagel and Lucy Wrestling. Like little crazy people on the floor. Yes,

Lindsay (01:01:54):

Rescue a dog. But also there are amazing 12 step programs for literally everything you can think of. There are therapists that are low cost or sliding scale, but also talking about how you're feeling with someone that you trust can also be incredibly meaningful just to not let those feelings, uh, grow in the darkness.

Moby (01:02:17):

And I'm not laughing at anything that you're saying. I know I'm laughing at the fact that Lucy and Bagel are losing their minds. <laugh>, <laugh>, I'm sure you can hear that in the background. I don't even know what they're saying. <laugh>,

Lindsay (01:02:32):

Thank you so much for listening. We really, really enjoy doing this podcast and connecting with you. We love your emails, especially when they're nice and not death threats, <laugh>. Um, so please email us your, uh, uh, non death threats or request about genres of songs you want us to do, or thoughts on how you were affected, or ways that you have dealt with your rage

Moby (01:03:03):

And also subjects that we haven't discussed. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> guests who we shouldn't invite on. Like, the whole idea with Moby Pod is it can be anything, you

Lindsay (01:03:12):

Know, it can be anything. And we want it to feel, um, obviously very authentic to us, to our interests, but also to anyone listening, we want to know what you are into and what you wanna hear about. So, um, please send it, send it over our way at mobypod@moby.com and thanks again for being here with us because you make your, your, uh, your listenership keeps us going, man. Um, thank you so much to Jonathan Nesvadba who edits this and does such an amazing job. And thank you so much to Human Content who gets this podcast out into the airwaves and into your cute little ear holes. Thank you so much.