Moby (00:00:03):

Hi, Lindsay.

Lindsay (00:00:04):

Hi Moby.

Moby (00:00:05):

And welcome to another episode of Moby Pod. That's my NPR voice. Do you think I'd,

Lindsay (00:00:11):

Yeah. It was kind of like breathy and surprising.

Moby (00:00:14):

So today, <laugh>. Okay. So today, first of all, I love doing our podcast. Um,

Lindsay (00:00:21):

So do I,

Moby (00:00:22):

We get to have like in-depth conversations with each other. We get to be serious, we get to be ridiculous. And today I think people are gonna be very surprised by our conversation with Steve-O

Lindsay (00:00:37):

I have, I was at a very tender age when came to be a very popular program. Um, and so I kind of grew up with the guys in a way. And I, it's very specific what they do there. So I wasn't necessarily expecting to sit down with Steve-O and have such a gentle, thoughtful, and honestly really moving conversation. Yeah. But it kind of happened.

Moby (00:01:07):

<laugh>. I mean, I would imagine anyone who's seen the movies and has Steve-o seens, Steve-o like getting a tattoo in a dune buggy, driving through the desert. Like, he, like, people think of Steve-O as being this like, remarkable loud daredevil lunatic. And the conversation we had with Steve-O that we're gonna play in just a second was so thoughtful, I mean, about spirituality, about mortality, about existentialism, about sobriety, and about animal rights. Because one of the ways I first bonded with Steve-O is he is a very sort of sensitive, compassionate, animal rights activist. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, uh, should we just jump right in? Yeah,

Lindsay (00:01:52):

Let's do

Moby (00:01:52):

It. Okay, great. Hi, Steve-O.

Steve-O (00:02:03):

Hey, Moby.

Moby (00:02:03):

Um, so I have a lot of stuff I want to go through with you. Biographical stuff, clown stuff, testicle, stapling stuff. <laugh>,

Lindsay (00:02:15):

I like it.

Moby (00:02:16):

And sobriety and bottoming out, and animal sanctuaries. So there's a lot that I wanna talk about. Good. But there are two things I would first like to address. One is punk rock. Yep. But the other is London Bridge. Good. Can I tell a story before we jump in? Yeah. 'cause it's a funny story. Okay. So before we jump in,

Lindsay (00:02:37):

<laugh> Yeah. <laugh>.

Moby (00:02:38):

So a couple weeks ago, Lindsay was in the UK and she sent a picture of herself by London Bridge. And I said, look, I don't want to be a pedantic dick, but the truth is I love being a pedantic Dick <laugh>. And I said, actually, that's Tower Bridge. And the next day you jumped off of Tower Bridge and almost went to jail for it.

Steve-O (00:02:59):

I think it's been more like a week and a half. It

Lindsay (00:03:01):

Was very recent.

Steve-O (00:03:02):

Very recent. And,

Moby (00:03:03):

And you didn't go to jail though?

Steve-O (00:03:05):

I didn't go to jail. I didn't even get a ticket. They, uh, I was detained by police and they cited their major concern aside from, uh, wasting resources, which didn't necessarily seem necessary. I mean, I was okay. I was outta the water, like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Hey guys, let, let's move on with our day. But their main concern was that, um, people apparently jump off the Tower Bridge in efforts to take their own lives. Whoa. Which

Moby (00:03:34):

Quite tall enough,

Steve-O (00:03:34):

Right. Strikes is woefully inefficient. Yeah. The, uh, a a apparently the height of the bridge is not the concern, but rather the current of the river.

Lindsay (00:03:44):

Oh.

Steve-O (00:03:45):

Apparently it's certain tides like the top of the waters flowing one way and the deeper waters flowing the other way. And it'll catch you. I don't know, it, it didn't seem very, um, turbulent of, of occurrence to me, <laugh>, but, uh, but yeah, not to make light of it, but they were concerned, they said just in the prior week that three people had jumped off the bridges to try to take their own life, and one of them was successful. Whoa.

Moby (00:04:09):

Wow. Well, I'm glad that you were not number four. Yeah. <laugh>

Lindsay (00:04:13):

Did you, before you jumped, did do you have to do a ton of research to make sure, like <laugh>, how deep is it, at what point do I jump to make sure that you don't land on a rock or land on a

Steve-O (00:04:22):

Shallow park? Right. Um, I had jumped off that bridge almost exactly 20 years prior. Whoa. So this was a more of a reboot. And, um, I I just, they got big boats going through there. Yeah. I see big boats and I, I kind of don't trip about how deep it is. Right.

Moby (00:04:37):

As I said, Lindsay had texted me, she was in the UK with her boyfriend, and there's a picture and she said, look, London Bridge. And I got to put on my super annoying petty pedantic hat and say, actually that's Tower Bridge. So London Bridge, the original London Bridge is not in the uk. So here's what happened. Here's the funny story that I think is funny. So a wealthy real estate businessman in Arizona agreed to buy London Bridge in the 19th century.

Steve-O (00:05:08):

Was it in London at that point? Yeah.

Moby (00:05:10):

And he, so he bought London Bridge and had it shipped over stone by stone to Lake Havasu, Arizona. The problem was when it arrived, he thought he was buying Tower Bridge. So the original London Bridge, it's just kind of a generic bridge. So he spent all his time and money buying London Bridge thinking he was going to get that remarkable quintessential tower bridge, and it shows up. And this is, you know, the 19th century, I think. So like obviously the logistics of dismantling a bridge, shipping it across the world, setting it up in Arizona. So it's still there. It's in Lake Havasu, Arizona, London Bridge that he bought. And it's just a generic stone bridge.

Steve-O (00:05:51):

I wonder if that's why London Bridge was falling down,

Moby (00:05:55):

I think, isn't that something plague related? Related? It

Lindsay (00:05:57):

Feels like it could be, but also I wonder if like, the energy of that bridge made Lake Havasu such a party zone.

Moby (00:06:05):

<laugh>. So I just think it's funny, this poor guy thinking he's buying gigantic, remarkable, beautiful Tower Bridge and said he gets like a gray, generic boring bridge. So

Lindsay (00:06:16):

There's him, right? Yeah.

Moby (00:06:17):

Okay. So speaking of the UK Yeah. So in my research getting ready for today, I realized you were born in the uk Yep. And then here's both statement and a question. Okay. According to the Internets, which are never mistaken, you, so you're born in the uk, you moved to Brazil. Yep. You moved to Venezuela. Yep. You moved to my hometown of Darien, Connecticut. Yep. You moved to Miami, you moved back to the uk, you moved to Canada, you moved back to the UK all by age 12,

Steve-O (00:06:49):

13. Okay. Yeah. 13 when I moved back to the UK. Yeah.

Moby (00:06:53):

So I know Lindsay, you also had a peripatetic upbringing, m aybe not quite Brazil, Venezuela, uk, Canada, Miami, et cetera, et cetera. We

Lindsay (00:07:02):

Weren't very international, but yeah, we moved, we moved constantly. Yeah. Like up until, I, I mean, yeah, I, I've never really stopped moving every like three or four years. I've been in LA for like seven now, which is a record.

Moby (00:07:13):

So having been moved around so much, how, if at all, do you think it affected you psychologically, emotionally? Uh,

Steve-O (00:07:23):

I think that, I mean, clearly I became an attention-whore <laugh> and, um, I don't

Moby (00:07:29):

How about an attention enthusiast. Yeah. <laugh>.

Steve-O (00:07:32):

Yeah. An attention enthusiast. And, um, I don't know that I attribute that to the moving, I think I do attribute that to my parents, not necessarily, uh, supervising me so much. The reason why we moved was because dad was a, you know, very successful corporate executive for, um, multinational American corporations. And they were balling When we moved to Brazil, I was six months old and Dad was the president of Pepsi Cola and all of Brazil. And I spoke my first words in Portuguese because I was raised by live-in maids.

Moby (00:08:11):

Wow1. Can I interrupt for one second? Yeah. Do you know what's sort of funny about that? Some friends of mine who were these globe trotting, glamorous people ended up having a, an an accidental baby. I'm not saying you were accidental. Yeah. But they had this accidental baby, and they were panicking because they were like, okay, on one hand we think having a child could be really good for us and our image. 'cause I guess they were ready. They're like, okay, publicly, we're ready to be parents now we think that would look good on the pages of Tatler or Architectural Digest. So they had the child and immediately handed it off to a nanny and ignored the child for the first two or three years. When the child started speaking, it spoke with an almost indecipherable thick Jamaican accent, because the only person who had spoken to the child for the first two or three years was the Jamaican nanny. So like, when it started speaking, it sounded like a Rasta. So yeah,

Steve-O (00:09:05):

A little, a little bit like that. I spoke my first words in Portuguese and girl, I, I don't remember anything. I do remember Darienne a little bit. That's where I went to kindergarten. And, uh,

Moby (00:09:16):

Did you go to Token?

Steve-O (00:09:17):

I, I, if, if I heard the name of the school, I probably would remember it was it Royale? Maybe Royal Academy? There's

Moby (00:09:24):

Royal because I went to Royale, which is R O Y L E, and there's Royal Tokenique Hendley. Um,

Steve-O (00:09:29):

Yeah, I, I can't, I can't say with with certainty what it is, but, uh, what I know for sure is that I was a attention seeking. Um, but more than that, I was just palpably uncomfortable in my own skin, desperately wanted to be accepted and, and, and praised and, uh, was just kind of overwhelming in my way of going about trying to be accepted and praised. And, um, like I really was, I'm bouncing off the walls. There, there was actually a, a really crazy story when I got to Venezuela, two years old, and we moved to Venezuela, and apparently the very first day of nursery school, um, my mom picked me up and, uh, the, the, the nursery school staff, they said, uh, what was the, what was the, the word they said that your, your son is, uh, is is a Spanish word? Not, um,

Moby (00:10:35):

Not capybara?

Steve-O (00:10:36):

No, no, no. <laugh>. Um, incredible. Or it's some word that, uh, in Spanish means like the most horrific, terrible thing. But it sounds like in, in English. Why can't I come? Kind

Moby (00:10:48):

Of like how in Spanish, embarazada means pregnant, I believe <laugh>.

Steve-O (00:10:52):

Yeah. Um, I remember too on, in the Blackfish documentary, it was the, the, the, uh, there, there was, um, a, a woman speaking Spanish who was describing what it was like to have seen her, her son was, uh, like just torn apart by an orca. And she, and the, the adjective she described for that experience was the same adjective that these nursery school teachers described me, me. So, like,

Lindsay (00:11:17):

That's a horrifying thing. Yeah. And also, and that's how they were describing you as and, and a nurse.

Steve-O (00:11:23):

So

Moby (00:11:23):

A two

Steve-O (00:11:23):

Year old. Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, what were

Lindsay (00:11:25):

You doing?

Steve-O (00:11:27):

Why can't I think of this word?

Moby (00:11:29):

I mean, did you like, set nuns on fire or something?

Steve-O (00:11:31):

No, I mean, I was just, I was just, uh, <laugh>, I, I I was a lot, I I I was a lot just

Lindsay (00:11:35):

Like hyperactive or were you destructive?

Steve-O (00:11:39):

Yeah. I, I I'm not sure what the, what the qualifying behavior was <laugh>, but, but yeah, I was, I I was a lot. Uh, oh. I almost had it. I almost had it. Hold on.

Moby (00:11:51):

And then as you, okay. So as you got older, 'cause I, there are a lot, you and I have a lot of similarities, but I also was kind of in a weird way, desperate what I'll think of as like, dynamic attention. Yeah. Like, I remember, I think it was my seventh birthday, I felt like I wasn't getting enough attention from the friends at the birthday party. So I did what any seven year old would do, is I took off all my clothes and made my friends chase me naked around the yard. Nice. Because that, to me, I was like, I was like, okay, how can I liven things up a little? How can I get the attention? How can I be on the receiving end of what I feel like I deserve on my special day? So I just got naked and ran around, which seems like maybe not as chaotic and destructive as being banned at two years old from a Venezuela nursery school. But did you come up,

Steve-O (00:12:41):

Did you think of the word? Um, I would need like a Spanish, um, thesaurus. But in any case, the every couple of years we would move. And, um, you know, I, I think a lot of kids might be upset that they would be, you know, uprooted and, and moved into a new school, in a new city, in a new country. But I, I remember every time of receiving a word that we were gonna move yet again, I, I was, I was really happy about that because invariably I would show up, you know, rub everybody the wrong way. Like really like, uh, create problems. And, and, and whenever I, I got the chance to move, I thought, oh, this is great. I'm gonna have a fresh start. I'm gonna start over, and this time I'm gonna be cool <laugh> this, this, this time I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna be a winner. I'm gonna be cool. And then as we know, like, you know, geographic changes, it's say, there you everywhere I went, there I was. Yeah. Yeah. And the same thing happened over and over again.

Moby (00:13:35):

So the other thing when I, when I was doing my research and I saw that, so am I correct in thinking or assuming that in terms of citizenship, you might have three national

Steve-O (00:13:46):

Yeah. Triple

Moby (00:13:47):

National. So Canada, UK and American, which I'm so, I'm so desperate, my desperate to not have American citizenship. Like when I meet someone who has UK or Canadian citizenship and they live in the United States, my first question is, what the are you doing here? Like, this, like, when you could live in Canada with, or which is so like smart and enlightened and everyone's nice and people don't shoot each other at concerts as much. Right. Or the UK where it's like, the summers are cool and granted it's dysfunctional, but compared to the United States, it's like this bastion of civilization and reason. I just don't understand why anyone would live in the United States if they don't have to live here. Yeah.

Steve-O (00:14:25):

It, it, it's a good point. I think that, um, being the way that I am, my life felt in retrospect, like just an agonizing weight to get to la. You know, I just wanted like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, 'cause the things that, that I loved, you know, skateboarding, you know, I wanna be a stunt man. Like, you know, rock and roll. Like, you know, it, it's all la it's all Southern California. And man, I love Southern California. I hate that California is falling apart the way that it is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, now that, you know, you mentioned animal sanctuaries. My, my, my lady and I, our highest goal is to employ hundreds of people to take care of thousands of animals. And this is what we want to do. And the question is where to do it. And, um, being that I'm Canadian, British Columbia sounds really good

Moby (00:15:14):

As far as a place to ride out the climate apocalypse, British Columbia is looking pretty nice. <laugh>

Steve-O (00:15:20):

Is it though? I, I, I'm not

Lindsay (00:15:21):

Moby's an expert on where to be for the apocalypse. I'm,

Steve-O (00:15:25):

I'm, he done

Lindsay (00:15:25):

A lot of research. <laugh>

Steve-O (00:15:27):

Bri. So Bri, you like the Pacific Northwest? It's very fiery.

Moby (00:15:31):

Yeah. But compare, I feel like there's no good place. Um, the only good places are like Scotland, but that's obviously quite far away. So I don't know the Pacific Northwest, it's like, yeah, they do have fires, but generally speaking, like the winters are fairly mild. The summers are also fairly mild. And I guess what you have is like, you're living in the United States, you're living in Southern California, but you know that if you needed to move to Canada or the uk, you could Yeah. As opposed to me with my panicky anxiety, I'm stuck here. And Lindsay, I mean, I don't want to speak on your behalf 'cause maybe you're a little more comfortable with the United States than I am, but I feel like having that safety valve, that ability to live in a better country makes living here a little more comfortable. Or should I just stop talking? Am I, am I, no, having, am

Lindsay (00:16:18):

I having a release valve, I'm sure gives a little bit of comfort. It's not something that I really think about very much, only because all of my life and family and friends are in the United States. But also, how hard is it to get up? Can you go over there and just like be there for, don't you have to like, just be there

Moby (00:16:33):

For No, it's not, it's, I, I, trust me, I've looked into it. Like, if you wanna get like, their version of a green card or citizenship. Oh boy.

Lindsay (00:16:40):

It's hard. Yeah. It, it's, there are places where you can get them though. If you like buy real estate, then they

Steve-O (00:16:44):

Sure. There are places. I, I watched a video about this. Um, I think Belize is, is a really good one for as far as easy to get citizenship goes. Plus the national language is English. Like, uh, there's a lot of good reasons for Belize. Does

Lindsay (00:16:59):

Spain, is Spain one of them? No. Portugal

Moby (00:17:02):

Port. A lot of people move to Portugal. Portugal, a lot, lot of people move to the former Eastern block that's now part of the ec like Romania, Bulgaria, because you like Yeah. Like you move to these countries and then you get EC membership. Right. Um,

Steve-O (00:17:14):

We're, we're looking at Tennessee now, like Nashville area. Oh, there's, you get so much more fear wine, gentle barn, much more Yeah. In national. Yeah, I've been there.

Lindsay (00:17:22):

You have? Yeah. Yeah.

Steve-O (00:17:23):

I've been there.

Moby (00:17:24):

So a sanctuary. So this sort of ties into my dilettante-ish psychoanalysis. Yeah.

Steve-O (00:17:29):

<laugh>. So

Moby (00:17:30):

Would you describe, and I love the word peripatetic, which means moving around a lot. I think, hopefully I'm using that word right, and not just sounding like an idiot in public. You

Lindsay (00:17:38):

Could be, I cannot check you on that. Okay. I mean, I guess I could Google it, but I just

Moby (00:17:41):

Don't want to. So peripatetic, I think it means like a wandering sort of like nomadic lifestyle. So you have this per upbringing, and now your goal is to be anchored at an animal sanctuary. Yeah. And to me, I feel like they're, again, I'm being both presumptuous and obvious, but like growing up, going all over the world, becoming an addict and an alcoholic touring constantly having this chaotic existence. The opposite of that is living with thousands of animals at an animal sanctuary. Right.

Steve-O (00:18:12):

Um,

Moby (00:18:12):

Does that make sense or am I just, I,

Steve-O (00:18:14):

I I think that that is a valid observation. I think that the way that I imagine I, I have kind of two visions of what our animal sanctuary might look like. In one sense, it's a, it's a tourist destination kind of a thing with my narcissistic Steve-o Museum called Disgrace Land. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, it's got, it's got built-in revenue streams where, you know, bed and breakfast, like what, you know, whatever. Like, so that it can be more self-sustaining.

Moby (00:18:46):

Yeah. 'cause the economics of animal sanctuaries, it's very challenging. Tough

Steve-O (00:18:50):

One. Yeah. Yeah. So, so having built-in revenue streams to whatever extent we can make it an attraction to bring in people and money, that's one version of it. Then the other version of it is more of a prepper, kind of a bug out, like disappeared to it. And, um, have it be maybe motivated by that one documentary, the biggest little farm. This like, uh, sort of sustainable ecosystem of where everything kind of

Lindsay (00:19:20):

A homestead where it's like you are, you have everything that you need, right, right. On

Steve-O (00:19:24):

The property. Grow our own, grow our own food. You know, like with, with, with all the animals, maybe there's, uh, some kind of a hybrid of both. But,

Moby (00:19:31):

Uh, I would, I would think so. I mean, like the idea of like having, I mean, why not? And again, what do I know? But like, have like a clown college and a performing arts thing. Um, have your disgrace land. Yeah. So people would come and visit, have it be an animal sanctuary, but also why not have a subterranean concrete bunker, right. For when things go wrong. You know, it seems like you could relatively easily accomplish all of that. And I'm sure

Lindsay (00:19:56):

It would be a great place just for education if it had all of these things, like go for the fun and the entertainment, but also you're learning about animal rights from all of these rescued animals and what factory farming is like. But then also maybe you learn what it's like to homestead and learn what it's like to maybe prep yourself a little bit,

Moby (00:20:11):

Or, and you grow your own food and learn some tricks at the clown college

Lindsay (00:20:14):

And, and also the tricks of

Moby (00:20:16):

The college you might, so to buy biographically as we move forward. <laugh>, um, you did go to clown college?

Steve-O (00:20:23):

I did.

Moby (00:20:23):

I didn't know if you knew that or not.

Lindsay (00:20:25):

I see, I did look into that because I, I too spent some time in some clown school. Oh

Steve-O (00:20:31):

Yeah. In, uh, Florida.

Lindsay (00:20:33):

No, no. It was in my college. We did two semesters of clowning, and during that year, all of the people in the program wore the red clown noses around their neck. So that's how you knew we were the seniors in the clown course. <laugh>

Moby (00:20:44):

Nice.

Lindsay (00:20:46):

Yeah.

Steve-O (00:20:46):

Nice. My, my, my, uh, whole thing. I had, like I said, this palpable discomfort in my own skin and everything, uh, for me, yeah, I, I would just embrace like a, I I would take on an identity in something. It started out, the first thing was was little league baseball. There's something about like me, like I, I felt defective. I wasn't comfortable in my own skin. I didn't amount to enough. I just wasn't enough. But when I put on that little league baseball uniform, like I was a baseball player, and I, you know, when I was wearing my,

Moby (00:21:23):

Where, where was this? Because I can't imagine there's much of a little league in the uk right?

Steve-O (00:21:26):

This was, uh, when I lived in Miami for, um, grades one through half of fourth grade, so sixth to nine. And, um, I would wear my baseball uniform on days when I had no game <laugh>. Like if I, you know, if I was at the movie theaters, like fully decked out with, you know, the things that go over your socks, <laugh>. Like, I thought those things were so cool, <laugh>. Um, like, um, and so that was my thing. Then Little League Baseball gave way to heavy metal music. And I would just, I listen to heavy metal music at you, you know, like Iron Maiden, Motley Crew Slayer, like, like that, that was kind of the trajectory that that went on. And I wanted to grow a little mullet. And I might, you know, it was just, I was, I'm

Moby (00:22:07):

Assuming this was also in Florida

Steve-O (00:22:08):

That, uh, actually I got into the heavy metal in, um, in, in London, England. Okay. And then the heavy metal, because

Moby (00:22:15):

You talk about like listening to like slayer and having a mullet. I feel like you've just described the Florida State Bird <laugh>.

Steve-O (00:22:22):

Right, right. But then again, that, that, that is a global phenomenon. The, the Florida has known Florida might have, um, claims to death metal coming outta Tampa. But, but, um, then so heavy metal music gave way to skateboarding. Skateboarding is where I found the video camera, because all skateboarders were gonna wanna document their, their achievements and, and try to get sponsored and all that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, skateboarding is as an identity, it's for me to kind of cloak myself in was actually a, a highly productive one. And I fell in love with the video camera skateboarding determined that I wanted to become a creative advertising person. I thought, man, I love making videos. I could make great commercials. This would be my career. And, uh, I went off to the University of Miami to, to become a, a, an advertising guy, but I couldn't bring myself to go to class. And I was wasted, you know, on all the time with the, the drugs and the alcohol. And I failed out. And so then I thought, okay, now I'm gonna become a crazy famous stunt man with my home video camera. I'm gonna film just wild stuff and become crazy and famous. And that didn't work very well. I was homeless for three years and, and, uh, about

Moby (00:23:40):

Like, homeless as in like couch

Steve-O (00:23:42):

Surfing, kinda, you know. Okay. Like, uh, I, I wasn't so much a live on the streets guy. I was, you know, more of a couch surfer, but the homeless nonetheless for three years mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then, um, that's when I found out about the clown college. And I thought, Hmm. I'm not really getting any traction in, in becoming a crazy famous stunt man. But if I could graduate from clown college, then I would be a trained circus professional, and then people would take me more seriously as a crazy famous stunt man.

Moby (00:24:09):

I mean, not to make light of going to clown college, right. But it is kind of funny. Like, I'm gonna go to clown college so people will take me seriously. Yeah,

Steve-O (00:24:15):

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And, and one of my favorite things about, about it is that when I was going to clown college, my first cousin, the closest thing I have to a brother was attending mortician school, and our mothers were just getting hammered together, cracking up, cracking up, debating whose son was a bigger loser, <laugh>. Like, like, and, and they were, they, they were like, really, uh, hotly debating, like wanting to, to, to lay claim to having the bigger losers.

Moby (00:24:48):

<laugh>. I mean, I feel like, but what about a hybrid of the two? 'cause like for example, we're all going to die at some point, most likely. Right. And the question is like, what happens is then, and why not a hybrid clown mortician, where like, if I'm gonna be dressed up and put in a pine box, I would love to be dressed up like a clown and like by a clown. By a clown. And have, and like at the funeral circus clowns, like funeral clowns who come and like, you know, maybe even like weekend at Bernie's style, like me as a dead person, like I'm dressed up like a clown and I'm put on a trapeze. And like, it starts off serious, like with the organ music and then all of a sudden snare drum and they're like, spotlights. And you see me dead on a trapeze dressed as a clown swing. So I'm just saying, your parents might've seen you guys as losers. I see entrepreneurialism.

Steve-O (00:25:41):

I, I remember having a really dark idea. I've always been very, like with mortality and, and, and death. Like, I've always had this, this obsession or, or just weird, um, fanaticism about it. Like I, I, I think it struck me like a long time ago. And, and, uh, I can't believe more people haven't really spent a lot of time thinking about this, but it, it, it struck me, we have one instinct in our human experience, which is to survive. Hmm. And one guarantee, which is we won't, Hmm. We're not gonna survive. That's all that's important to us. So it's like our human experience, it, it, it feels like a prank on us. Yeah. Like just a terrible prank. We're in this awful catch 22. And, um, in this sort of dilemma, which we've, we all find ourselves in, I view our objective, if there's like a, a a a purpose, it's to somehow wrap our heads around it, you know, to, to find peace or to, you know, just some way to deal with our mortality. And, uh, you know, there, there are three real primary buckets that I think, um, people fall in. There's a reproduction, you know, like that's, I think for most people, like a primary motivation for having children is so that when, when we die, we live on, you know, the family jewels, the family name, the lineage.

Moby (00:27:18):

It's sort of like, so like our confusion and paradox gets <laugh> Right. Handed off to like these innocent children. Right. So they can wrestle with the confusion in the paradox.

Steve-O (00:27:27):

Exactly. And, and you make a good point that it's, it's counterintuitive, but it's also very much, uh, built into our It's biology. Yeah. It's biology

Lindsay (00:27:36):

Driven to want to Yeah.

Steve-O (00:27:37):

It's biology. Of course, I super don't want to have kids. And, uh, I've made sure of that with the, the vasectomy. Then the, the second bucket is, is religion. I mean, it, it seems that pretty much every religion, that it's true purpose is to comfort people about their mortality. You know, you're gonna be dead, but it's cool because you're gonna go to some wonderful heaven and everything's gonna be great. I,

Moby (00:28:03):

I've gotten in trouble when I've talked to religious people, and I've described that as marketing <laugh>, you know, I'm like, sure. Because a lot of religion is also predicated on the idea of self deny. Ah, I

Steve-O (00:28:13):

Thought of the word. I finally got it. "tramendo"

Moby (00:28:16):

"Tramendo". Hey. Yeah. Sounds

Lindsay (00:28:17):

Like tremendous.

Steve-O (00:28:18):

Yeah, tremendous. tramendo doesn't

Lindsay (00:28:21):

Mean, hold on. I have to say with

Moby (00:28:22):

The actual translation, El "Steve-O es un niño, tramendo" <laugh>. Yeah,

Steve-O (00:28:26):

Yeah. My remember

Moby (00:28:27):

Your mom's like, oh, thank you so much, and then we find out it means "devil". Yeah.

Steve-O (00:28:31):

tramendo. Okay. God, that was killing me.

Moby (00:28:33):

It's also a great name for a magician. Clown <laugh>.

Steve-O (00:28:37):

Yeah.

Lindsay (00:28:38):

Yeah. It means, it means terrible and frightful. <laugh>.

Steve-O (00:28:42):

Yeah. Tramendo. So, yeah.

Moby (00:28:44):

So, so we've got, okay, so,

Steve-O (00:28:45):

So

Moby (00:28:45):

We've got reproduction and religion. Yeah.

Steve-O (00:28:47):

Reproduction and religion. And then there is like the caveman with the stick figures on the wall. You know, there art leaves, leaves stuff, uh, behind that's gonna live you. And, and for me, the, the video camera from when I first, uh, found the video camera with skateboarding there was, there, there was two things about it. One, I could edit out all of the fails and, and really just, uh, isolate the, the successful tricks,

Moby (00:29:17):

Which is the subtext of what you're talking about, like being uncomfortable in your own skin. Right. And a subtext to that is, I don't want you to see me for who I am. Right. I want you to see me for how I want to be seen. Right.

Steve-O (00:29:28):

And the video camera represented a way of being able to manipulate people's perception of me, which is super, super important. And then once perception's been manipulated there, there's something so permanent about the video, we're all gonna be dead, but video will live on mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, the, this. So, and, and, and as I failed at the University of Miami and, and, and as I was homeless and couch surfing, I knew I couldn't keep a job. I knew that I couldn't go to class. And, and, and, and I just felt I lacked the survival skills to navigate the world. And that I as such, I was gonna die young having failed miserably at life. And so my life took on this, this frantic, uh, like kind of packing my message in a bottle. Let me do the craziest stuff and so that I can become the Van Gogh of the video camera, discover it after, and I'll live forever.

Steve-O (00:30:26):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think that built into that quest was, uh, a real frustration with mortality. You know, because like, I was making videos where I was like hanging from 12 story balcony railings, like, you know, hanging over a certain death by my bare hands. And, and I would swing out and let go and land on the floor the 11th floor below. And I would do that super drunk to, there's footage of me like very drunk doing that. And, um, it, it, it, it's clear to me on some level that there's like a, a, a frustration with mortality. Like, uh, an anger, like lashing out, taunting it. I was mad at death.

Moby (00:31:07):

But also what you're describing, 'cause I recognize a little bit of that in myself, there's a playfulness as well. Yeah. On one hand you're like, okay, the universe is baffling. I don't understand anything about my meaning or possible significance, death weights for all of us, so I'm gonna both rail against it. Yeah. But also kinda like, you know what another response is just that playfulness of like, right. I,

Steve-O (00:31:30):

I think that that's equally valid. You, I, I had a really interesting experience, I'll never forget it. While I was at clown college, there was, um, the, the, the clown college and, and, and it's, it's, it's a little bit erroneous to even consider at a college. It was much more like bootcamp. The whole program lasted for eight weeks. But,

Moby (00:31:48):

But I do love, I love addressing these sort of like, core existential issues. Sure. It's like, okay, what's the response to the human condition, to the existential sort of mystery that we're all confronted with? Is it reproduction? Is it spirituality? Is it materialism? Is it nihilism? No, it's clown college. Yeah.

Steve-O (00:32:09):

<laugh>

Moby (00:32:10):

For sure. Which I think is just as valid as any, like, you could become a PhD in philosophy. Oh.

Steve-O (00:32:15):

And we're absolutely gonna, we're absolutely gonna get to, to a very, very big point here that the cl clown college was in Sarasota, Florida the year that, that I attended, which actually ended up being the last year of clown code. They closed it down after my class, <laugh>. And, um, the, our, uh, operating sort of, uh, facility was the Sarasota Opera House. And across the street from the Sarasota Opera House was this apartment complex, which was all clowns, you know, all clowns except for one team of marine biology students, <laugh>. So it was just, that was the whole thing. It was the clowns. And, and every Saturday we would put up a, a show. We would, we would work on a show for the week, and then Saturday would, we would perform the show. And, and it was free for all of the residents of Sarasota.

Steve-O (00:33:07):

So we would just have this, this experience performing. And then Sunday was the one day off for the week. So the Saturday night after, after our show, as I did just about every night of the week, I, I was getting absolutely hammered. And I was, I recall being in the apartment of this female marine biology student. Can't remember if there were other people with this or, or not. But I was, I was telling this female marine biology student about how we're all gonna be dead. You know, everyone, we're all gonna be dead. But I'm gonna live forever because I've got these rad videos. And like, these videos are gonna be playing long after I'm gone, which technically makes me immortal. <laugh>. And this marine biology student just kind of shook her head. She was really mad, but she was kind of sad, just disappointed. She said, God, you think it's all about you.

Steve-O (00:34:03):

She said, how about this? If I do my job, if I serve my purpose, then every time, uh, fish feeds on a coral reef that I helped to preserve, then I'm still alive. Wow. And it was so, it was so profound. Like that's the third bucket, is legacy. I felt myself get goosebumps as I said that, you know, like what, whatever your legacy is, like what, what, uh, what, what change do you affect? It doesn't have to be like, so about me, you know, if I do the, the, the, if I have some kind of cool animal sanctuary that can affect positive change on some level, you know, like where there's just so many different ways to have a legacy of, of positive change mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But back to the mortality complex, I view what I do. I, I had somebody ask me recently, oh, does stapling your balls to your leg?

Steve-O (00:34:54):

Is that something that, that, uh, that you're proud of <laugh>, you know, that like, and, and, and my honest answer is, yeah, big time. And to qualify why I am so proud of stapling my balls to my leg, I told this interviewer that being human is hard, you know, being human like that, I, I presume death being dead is like really easy, but life's is hard. Mm-hmm. And we were talking on my podcast about why, that's why the life of a dairy cow in a factory farm is the most upsetting proposition because life is hard.

Moby (00:35:27):

'cause they're kept alive. It's almost like, like when Lindsay and I have gone to these save animal save events where you like bear witness to pigs as they're about to be killed, there's this heartbreaking realization that like, death is the only mercy, right. That these pigs are ever going to experience. Like the only cessation to their suffering Right. Is going to be death. Right. Like, I could almost posit that death is a sign of a merciful god. Sure. It sounds like I'm writing a heavy metal song. Sounds

Steve-O (00:35:53):

Like very peta too. Yeah.

Moby (00:35:55):

But like that idea that like, imagine a world without death. Imagine if like the suffering just went on. I'm not in any hurry to die, but I'm sort of, I'm grateful that it exists as an end to most organism suffering. Sure.

Steve-O (00:36:08):

Sure. So again, with this interview, I, being human's hard, like life is hard. And on top of that, like, a lot of people are, I, I maybe even most people don't love their job. You know, a lot of people aren't, aren't happy in their marriages, you know, heaven forbid with the people have health problems, you know, like, pick your problems and whatever it is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, uh, you know, people are really burdened with incredible stressors. And I like to believe, and I really genuinely do believe that when somebody sees me staple my balls to my leg from that moment, except

Moby (00:36:45):

For the police. 'cause you did get arrested for it. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:36:47):

You got arrested for that. Yeah.

Steve-O (00:36:48):

Yeah. I got, I I cut the same charges. Jim Morrison, Lenny Bruce, two life crew, felony, obscenity. Oh, yeah.

Moby (00:36:55):

See, I just think it's the nanny state, man, <laugh>. Right? Like, so, uh, what sort of world do we live in where a guy can't staple his testicle sack to his leg in front of an audience Right.

Steve-O (00:37:06):

In front of an over 18 audience too. But, um, but yeah, when, when, when people witness me stapling my balls to my leg for that moment, I genuinely believe that they are not concerned with their problems. That, that I've, I've effectively distracted them from their problems. And as such, I've given myself the professional title of distraction therapist

Moby (00:37:28):

<laugh>. It's almost like a form of like traditional catharsis, like the Greek idea of catharsis. Yeah. Like, by presenting people with your suffering for a moment, their own suffering, they're like, wow, I might be in a loveless marriage, I might hate my job, but at least my ball sack is not currently stable to my leg. Right. Right. Well,

Lindsay (00:37:46):

Also, I think a lot of people walk around every single day terrified of pain on any level. Right. They're afraid to do almost anything. And I think more and more and more, as time goes on, pain is to any degree, to be avoided. Right. At all costs. And I think you've made a career of literally throwing yourself into some of the most painful situations, which I'm sure makes people think like, maybe I'm not made of glass.

Steve-O (00:38:11):

Yeah. Perhaps. So that's my, my noble offering.

Moby (00:38:15):

And I will say, so I love these approaches to the human condition. Yeah. And I, I would, I would've, there are a couple of others which could be like materialism. 'cause for some people, like the Donald Trumps of the world, they're like, oh, as long as I have enough accolades and stuff. In fact, I'd say that materialism seems to be for a lot of people, they're like, if I'm, if I'm wealthy enough, if I'm famous enough, the human condition won't get me. Right. Um,

Steve-O (00:38:38):

I, I I would say that my dad, my, my, my parents, if they had a religion, it was money.

Moby (00:38:43):

And so what, one of the things that you're also suggesting that reminds me of is the recognition of that central absurdity. You know, and I think of like Andy Kaufman, you know, like one response to that existential question, the human condition is absurdity. You know, and in a weird way, like having been a former philosophy major, having been a religious studies major, having been a materialist, having been a hedonist, absurdity is a very valid response. Sure. Because in the universe, it's 15 billion years old, where we're alive for a few decades. That thing you mentioned before, that central paradox of we think our lives have meaning, but there's no way to objectively show that our lives have any meaning or significance. I,

Steve-O (00:39:27):

I, I submit that the meaning of life is to pick one <laugh>,

Moby (00:39:33):

<laugh> and to, and to, in a way sort of like try and the other I agree. And I would also say, like, one thing I try to remind myself of is like most people not to judge them have, they're terrified of the idea that life doesn't have meaning that life doesn't have significance. And part of our job is to be compassionate towards them and say like, okay, I don't judge your materialism. I don't judge your religious dogma. I understand. Because it's being confronted with the void is terrifying for most people. Getting to that point of being re like, we're maybe all a little bit relaxed in our existential response. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and having compassion for people who might not in this go around get to that point. I don't know if that sounds presumptuous on my part or

Steve-O (00:40:22):

I, I I do think like the meaning of life is to get off your and assign meaning to your life mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And when, um, perhaps most people's biggest problem is not having identified something in life about which they're truly passionate.

Moby (00:40:41):

Oh, absolutely. But I have to remind myself of that, and that, this might sound really obnoxious, but like, I feel like I am blessed with a sense of purpose and love and meaning. Like, I love being in nature. I love working on behalf of animal rights. I love making music. I like, there's so many things that I find meaningful, but like most people don't have that, which I know sounds really obnoxious for me to say that, but like, imagine a life where you're not in love with creative stuff. Of course, the only response is materialism or hedonism or anger or what have you. Like, so I, how do we, how do we fix that? How do we,

Steve-O (00:41:25):

I, I don't know. But um, with, uh, I, I, I was really struck fairly recently when, um, somebody pointed out that the word enthusiasm broken down to its, uh, roots. You have entheos, which means with God. So the point being that, that when we are passionate about what we're doing, when we're truly in love with, when we have our purpose, like when we're enthusiastic, we're, we're doing God's work. Hmm.

Moby (00:41:56):

Or like, and keep in mind, I, I assume that when we talk about God, we're not talking about religion, we're not talking about dogma, we're talking, but it's that idea of life force or spirit. Right. Or what have you. And, uh, I did an interview the other day. The guy was asking me, what's your purpose? And I was like, honestly, to better connect with God, to better know God, to better do God's will with the full understanding. I don't know who or what God is. Right. And I just use it as a, I could also say spirit of the universe or life force or what have you. But I completely agree that like, that's why I love nature. That's why I love animals. That's why I love creativity and conversation and community is like, it feels like there's a representation of the divine Sure. Fully understanding. I don't know what the divine is, but it just more so than going to, I don't know, I don't wanna malign what people do, but like, there feels like certain things have the potential to be sacred and other things less so.

Steve-O (00:42:50):

Right. I heard, um, somebody from, uh, our secret club at one of our secret, he's

Moby (00:42:56):

Talking about aa, <laugh>

Steve-O (00:42:59):

<laugh>. Um, this guy said in, in a meeting, he said, and, and this was a guy who identified as having, uh, more than 20 years of sobriety. He said, yeah, I think alcoholics must be the only people arrogant enough to actually believe they understand God. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, like drawing from, uh, the third step which says, um, God as we understood him, and you know, and I remember thinking, Ooh,

Moby (00:43:28):

So when I got sober, uh, I was doing my step work. And the third step said, made a decision to turn our life and will over to the care of God as we understood God. And I wrestled with this because apart from my life, and will, what do I have like turning it over to the care of God as we understood God? And I was like, how do I understand a being that's potentially involved with a 15 billion year old universe? And the one

Steve-O (00:43:56):

I think they've just determined it's 30 billion. Okay.

Moby (00:43:58):

30 billion <laugh>. So, but then the realization I had, which was so liberating, was the God of my understanding is a God that I can't possibly understand, but I do presumptuously feel like I can get glimpses and I can either sort of like move towards whatever that God is or move away from whatever that God is. And just that the life's work of trying to move towards the God of my understanding, who I don't understand. Yeah.

Steve-O (00:44:25):

I, that that's the, that's because when I heard this guy say alcoholics, the only people arrogant enough to think they understand God, I, I had this panic. I was about two years sober at the time. We were, uh, we'd been at the, the Bull Ranch filming three D with bulls up in, uh, Northern California. I remember thinking, oh my God, like he's right. Like this whole thing, this whole thing that all, it's all based on, based on a lie, based on thinking of like, all of this whole 12 step recovery thing is based on understanding God. And, and that's, you know, and I went into a panic. I, I went back to my hotel and I called up a friend of mine and I was like, ah, you know, like, I don't understand God. And that's this all language. My friend said, Hey, it's okay.

Steve-O (00:45:09):

I don't, I don't understand God either, but I don't have to understand God. I just have to trust God. And that, like, I love to share that, like, just changing that one word. Just trust and trust that, you know, whatever, if faith is, faith means belief in something that cannot be proven, you know, that everything's there, there's underlying intelligence, like whatever it is. Like that helped me a, a great deal. There's another one too, where if you change one word and, and, and it's the first sentence of chapter five, how it works, rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Initially, that first sentence was written, uh, with one word different. Hmm. And it's rumored to be, oh, they initially wrote it, never have we seen a person fail. But that's not the, the word, the way that sentence was initially written.

Steve-O (00:46:04):

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our direction. And, uh, I have the, there's this coffee table book of the original manuscript of the, the big book. And it's got all the cat scratches and the, you know, the red. And, uh, you can see in that original manuscript, the word direction is, uh, crossed out and replaced with the word path. Hmm. And in changing that one word, the program goes from being a program of telling other people what to do to a program of showing them what you've done yourself. Mm-hmm. And that's so crucial. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because nobody wants to be told what to do, especially

Moby (00:46:43):

Addicts. Right. I mean, no one wants to be told what to do, but especially alcoholics do not want, like Right. AA or any 12 step program would've failed like in the first two months if it was based on telling people what to do. Right.

Steve-O (00:46:55):

I remember when I picked my first sponsor, he said, Hey man, I'm, I'm not, I'm not here tell you what to do. I'm just gonna, I'm like, he says, I'm not even gonna suggest you'd do anything I didn't do myself. Yeah. And that was so palatable to me.

Moby (00:47:06):

Okay. Um, one question then is when did you first discover liquor and drugs, and then what happened that made you decide to give them up?

Steve-O (00:47:17):

Um, my mom was very chronic alcoholic, as was every single member of my mom's side of the family. So I, I grew up with, uh, heavy alcoholism right. In the house. And I think that's the testimony to how insidious and baffling and just plain insane the disease of alcoholism is because I had firsthand experience. Like, like my, my experience with my mother's alcoholism as a child should have been the most, like, scared straight. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Like I had, I had the education, the firsthand knowledge, the direct experience to know how destructive and, and, and awful alcoholism is. Miss

Moby (00:48:06):

There is an element of like, we grow up afraid of things. And it seems like a recurring aspect to your life of like, identify the thing you're afraid of and embrace it.

Steve-O (00:48:17):

Perhaps, perhaps. I, I remember thinking on some level that all the alcoholics in the family, despite their best efforts, despite all of their promises, never gonna drink again. They always do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, there's like, no matter what it, like, it gets 'em anyway. So I'm not even gonna, it's gonna get me anyway, so I'm not even gonna fight. I'm gonna let go and let alcohol Yeah.

Moby (00:48:40):

<laugh>,

Steve-O (00:48:41):

That's like, uh, that, that, you know, that was the, that was the deal. Like, oh, well, I mean, this is gonna get me anyway. And I understood the disease concept without, but I never needed anybody to explain it to me. 'cause my mom was, was a crazy binge drinker. And, um, she would, when, when, when she came, came off of a binge, it was, I'm never gonna drink again. That's it. That was the last time. And invariably at some point I'd come home from school and find my mom drinking, and I would say, mom, you said you were never gonna do this again. Like, and she would, her answer, she says, I'm, I'm only, I'm only gonna have a couple. This time's gonna be different. And so, like, I remember that as a child. Like I, I knew that mom, even though she was saying, this time it's gonna be different, I'm only gonna have a couple. I knew that that was absolute. And that now here we're going into a dark phase, you know, like that disease concept of have one. And then the, the phenomena of craving, like, whatever you wanna call it, like just the, the, the concept of alcoholism. I knew that without ever needing an explanation.

Moby (00:49:50):

And do you remember when you had your first drink and how you felt?

Steve-O (00:49:54):

I hear people say the, their first drink felt like a warm blanket wrapped. That wasn't my experience. Um, first time, uh, my, my parents did, they, they had a deal that, uh, on New Year's Eve, we could have one alcoholic beverage. Like, uh, so I would drink, uh, one alcoholic drink. Um, on New Year's Eve from like, pretty alarmingly young age. I think. Like, I certainly remember being eight and, uh, having, having a drink, um, my, my sister would help herself to the liquor cabinet. Um, and, and I, I would drink with her the first time that I ever drank on my own initiative or

Moby (00:50:34):

The fir the first time. 'cause like for example, you are reminding me that like, I actually tried alcohol a few times when I was growing up. It, and I just realized it never affected me until I went through puberty. And for some reason, like, like before age 12 or so, like, I would drink, I would smoke pot, I would do other drugs, but I didn't really like them. But for some reason, after puberty, new Year's Eve, dairy and Connecticut, I, I went to a friend's parents' New Year's Eve party, and I was given a glass of champagne, and I had three glasses of champagne. And I had, I was like, oh my God, I never want to not feel this way. This was so perfect. So I wonder, for me at least, there was like an age I got to where all of a sudden alcohol affected me physiologically and neurochemically very differently. Yeah.

Steve-O (00:51:20):

Um, I don't know, maybe because it is nothing about, it makes sense to me. But I remember when, when I first took the initiative to get drunk on my own, it was to celebrate the sixth anniversary of the formation of Mötley Crüe.

Moby (00:51:37):

Oh, sweet <laugh>. Yeah,

Steve-O (00:51:38):

Exactly. Which was, uh, have

Moby (00:51:40):

You had the chance to tell anybody? Yeah, big

Steve-O (00:51:42):

Time. Big time. Yeah. The, um, they, they, they formed in, uh, like February of 1981. This was February of 1987. And, um, I went, my, my dad and my parents had a, a wine cellar, and I took a bottle of red wine and, um, opened it up and I was living in Toronto. There was like a, a house under construction, like a, it's kind of a little bit down the street, across the street. And I went behind there, opened it up and, and drank just a little bit. Went to school. And then when I came home, uh, from school that day, I went back to it and just pounded the whole thing. You know, like that really, really pound the whole thing,

Moby (00:52:19):

Listening to Shout at the Devil <laugh>.

Steve-O (00:52:22):

I don't know that I was listening to anything, but, uh, but it was just like the Mo Mötley Crüe instilled in me this idea of the sex, drugs and rock and roll. You know, I say that my first Iron Maiden album taught me that I was a metalhead. My first Mötley Crüe album taught me why I was a metalhead. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and my first Slayer album taught me how bad the situation really was. Um, so like, again, from, just from like age 11, like Mötley Crüe, I heard Shot at the Devil. And then like, I was just so drawn to this, like sex drug and rock and roll, like what they described as sleezes. And they did, you know, it, uh, I just wanted to be like that, you know, like, uh, from such a young age, I wanted to, to just party like Mötley Crüe. So, so I, I, I drank the bottle of wine, and, and I, no, no question. I'm drunk. I come into the, to the house. I remember like the, like, I, I called it French

Moby (00:53:13):

And how old? So 87. How old were you

Steve-O (00:53:14):

Then? I, I was 12 at that time. I, I, I, I came in, I called up a, a buddy of mine to tell him, tell him I was drunk. I remember he said that, you gotta go to aa. And I didn't even know what, but, but like didn't have the, the phone did not get back on the hook. So I left the phone off the hook. And I know my parents had, um, been given a, like a, a gag gift of a breathalyzer. I thought, oh, I'm drunk. So I went and, uh, got their breathalyzer out and I blew into it. And, you know, I went, you know, and said drunk and, and I put it on the,

Moby (00:53:45):

And you're like, I've arrived. <laugh>.

Steve-O (00:53:47):

Yeah. Put it on the kitchen counter, you know, like, left it on the kitchen counter, went upstairs and barfed in the toilet. Didn't flush the toilet.

Moby (00:53:54):

You in a red wine Barf too. Yeah.

Steve-O (00:53:56):

A red wine barfed. Just like

Moby (00:53:57):

A trail of

Steve-O (00:53:58):

Yeah. Adolescent

Moby (00:53:59):

Drunkenness.

Steve-O (00:54:00):

For sure. For sure. And, um, and, and, and I went to this school with, with the green blazer and, and a tie, you know, and I'm in my clothes and passed out. So my dad came home that evening, and, you know, the phone's off the hook. Here's the breathalyzer, it says wasted. He goes upstairs and his, his son's passed out on top of, you know, in my school uniform and, and the red wine and the toilet not flushed, And, he woke me up, um, said, you know, we need to talk. We, we, we had our talk over a game of pool, but I beat him at Pool. I remember <laugh>. So that was my first time, uh, getting, getting drunk on my own. And, and I don't remember it being a bad experience or a good experience. It was more of a, like a, it was less about how it felt than what it represented. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, like, like there was like the identity of the, the spirit of Mötley Crüe and, and the fact of that it was motivated literally by Mötley Crüe was pretty awesome too.

Moby (00:54:58):

And then fast forward, you got sober when?

Steve-O (00:55:01):

March 10th, 2008.

Moby (00:55:04):

Okay. Yeah. I'm October 8th, 2008. Yeah. So roughly right. You, you beat me by six months. Yeah. Um, do you remember your la like, was it like, because some people, for example, have one moment that is their bottom. Other people, like for me, I had like steadily descending years as a bottom. Yeah. Like, when I finally got sober, it wasn't like one specifically bad experience. It was one horrible experience preceded by a few thousand horrible experiences. Right. What was yours like?

Steve-O (00:55:39):

Well, I, I had acknowledged that cocaine was a real problem. I was always trying to quit like one thing, but not, you know, definitely not ever, I never tried to stop drinking alcohol. I, like, I don't ever, and I definitely never tried to stop smoking pot, but, uh, cocaine, I would swear it off. Or, or nitrous oxide. I'm not gonna do that anymore. Or, you know, ketamine or whatever it was. And, and no matter, no matter what my effort was to curtail or, or just, or or to stop, I, I always failed. Yeah.

Moby (00:56:15):

Mm.

Steve-O (00:56:15):

I always feel so

Moby (00:56:16):

As it as it should be.

Steve-O (00:56:17):

Yeah. And so, in my own experience, trying to address my issues with drugs and alcohol, I understood the concept of powerlessness. So once I, I had the intervention, it, it was, it was Johnny Knoxville and, and Jeff Tremaine. And, you know, the, the bunch of the crew of came over, like eight guys. And, uh, they were there to lock me up on a 51 50. And they had the,

Moby (00:56:46):

Can you explain a 51 50? 'cause a lot of people I know, Lindsay, you know what that is.

Steve-O (00:56:50):

It's an I do for that. Yeah. A 72 hour long involuntary psychiatric hold, which is enforceable by law if somebody is deemed to be harmful to themselves or others.

Moby (00:57:03):

I didn't know what that was before I got sober. But obviously going to AA meetings in New York and LA you hear a lot of talk about 51 50,

Steve-O (00:57:09):

What's it called in New York?

Moby (00:57:10):

I forget. But it's the same thing. Like an involuntary hold. Yeah. Basically, which aren't legal everywhere.

Steve-O (00:57:15):

51 50 is a California term. That's a California code in Florida, the equivalent is called a Baker Act. Then I think in, in Pennsylvania, I wanna say to Marchman, I don't, I'm not sure, but they, they have different versions. There's different version, yeah. Different versions of the law. But yeah. So, uh, they, they had me, you know, they, the, I qualified because I had sent, um, a mass email saying that, uh, I was ready to die and I was gonna jump out of this window. And s qualified, and they got me locked up for 51 50. And I was such an unlovely creature. When they got me to the hospital, to the psych ward, I was spitting on people. I was trying to throw furniture around. I was unlovely. And they changed my status from 51 50, which is a 72 hour hold to a 52 50, which is a two week hold. And that was the saving grace, because three days would not have done the trick, because I think it was like day four that, uh, a panel of AA dudes came into the psych ward and told their stories. And

Moby (00:58:27):

I used to speak at Bellevue

Steve-O (00:58:29):

Okay. At

Moby (00:58:29):

A detox.

Steve-O (00:58:30):

I mean, I can, I can describe my, uh, my first three steps, which, which, um, distinctly happened in that psychiatric ward. It was the thons psychiatric ward at Cedar-Sinai Hospital. There was a, a guy, I don't know what day I was on in there, but there was another patient in the psych ward who identified himself as a heroin addict. He said, I've got this book for you. I think you really need it. And it was the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. And, uh, I remember thinking that it was kind of odd that a heroin addict was giving me a book about alcoholism telling me that he really cared about me when we were both on suicide watch in a psychiatric ward. But going back to my experience with my, with my family and everybody, like, despite their best efforts, despite their most sincere promises, they always drank again.

Steve-O (00:59:24):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Like, I just felt that I, I I, I felt that I was just resigned to a life and death because it was just too, like nobody could beat it got everybody, and it just got 'em down. And like, I, I had conceded defeat, you know, like, and, and on top of that, you know, I was so entitled, undisciplined. I recognized these things by myself. I had no discipline. I had was super entitled, just used to getting what I wanted. Like, like just no. Like, there's no way I considered myself a write off. I thought like, well, if there's any point where I could, where there was hope for me, I'm past that point. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, I'm a lost cause that was my core belief about, about it.

Moby (01:00:10):

So, Lindsay, when you, 'cause when I hear that, I'm like, yeah, it makes sense, right? I felt the exact same way, but I'm wondering like, 'cause Lindsay, you're not an addict. When you hear someone say that, that they, they almost self-diagnosed as a lost cause. Like, oh, best case scenario, I'm gonna drink and do drugs until I die, which hopefully will be pretty soon. How do you feel when you hear that? I

Lindsay (01:00:31):

Mean, I think a lot of people have moments where they feel like I'm a lost cause and why should I even try? Sure. I think that is a, that is a common human thing of, I can't get better. I'm just going to do what I can with what I have, not necessarily regarding substances, but regarding a partner they have that beats them up and they're like, I am not gonna find

Moby (01:00:55):

Something better. Or health issues or job

Lindsay (01:00:57):

Stuff. Exactly. Or, you know, any situations like situational things or even like, I have habits that I can't stop, I overeat, I undereat, I don't do anything with my life. And there's, I'll never change. I'm, I am a write off. I'm right. You know? Right. I think that there are versions of that that aren't necessarily connected to substance. Yeah. That's, that's what it makes me think of. But that is so direct. But also it's outside of you. You know, it's not like this thing, but it's a, it's a habit coming from the inside, I guess.

Moby (01:01:30):

I mean, like, towards the end of my drinking, I got to that point of like, okay, I've given up on myself. But there was something lovely and comforting there. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay. Like it, about six months before I got sober, I was going to buy a dive bar. I'd actually like, had drawn up the papers and was on the verge of buying a dive bar in Brooklyn. And I was gonna, I thought I was so clever it was gonna be called Slow Dive, but the v was gonna be like, it was gonna be a neon sign that said Slow Dive, but the V wasn't gonna work. It's gonna be Slow Die. And I was going to renovate it so I would live in the basement. But I thought this was a great idea. I was like, okay. And I'll go in there, I'll wake up at 5:00 PM and I'll start drinking and I'll start doing drugs. And I'll go to sleep at eight or nine in the morning in my basement, Crip. And I'll do this for a few years until I die. And it seemed like a great idea. Wow.

Steve-O (01:02:19):

And, and as you describe it, it sounds

Moby (01:02:22):

Awesome, <laugh>. That's why Lindsay, I love your perspective. 'cause I was like, it's so weird that like in the world of addiction, you're like, oh yeah. Like living in a basement and waking up at 5:00 PM until you die is like the best thinking I have. Sounds

Steve-O (01:02:36):

Completely awesome too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I remember when, uh, there, there was the movie about Amy Winehouse that came out, and I saw that in the theater. I've

Lindsay (01:02:43):

Heard it's brutal. I've

Steve-O (01:02:45):

Been, people say, oh, it was most brutal thing ever. It was the most brutal, like, horrific display of addiction. And, um, I remember walking outta the theater just feeling like I just was so triggered. I wanted to get high. Yeah. You know, and, and it's like that, that's the insanity. That's the, in here. I just was just presented with the most horrific display of the destruction of addiction. And it just, but also

Lindsay (01:03:09):

You grew up with Yeah. Uh, with a display of addiction. Right. I mean, I, there's things about me in my life that I know are bad habits, that are based off of bad habits I saw growing up. And there's something so familiar and warm about things I was taught that were so harmful to the person that was teaching them to me. Right. And yet the familiarity of it makes me wanna go back into bad habits, you know? Right.

Steve-O (01:03:32):

So, back to the psych ward, I, I, I believe my core belief is that I'm a lost cause. I'm a write off. There's no hope for me. So, you know, I, I accept the, this, this book, this Alcoholics anonymous book from the heroin addict, you know, as a, as an exercise in, in being polite mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, and, uh, I've, I've got my own, my little room in the psych ward and, uh, the, that got the book there. But then whether it was that night, the next night, I don't know, but, but I, I was confronted with insomnia. I just could not fall asleep. And I had absolutely nothing better to do than to read the Alcoholics Anonymous book. And, and I could not have been more clear that, that no part of me was opening up this book to find a solution for my alcoholism.

Steve-O (01:04:23):

I was literally just killing time because I had nothing better to do. So to start from the beginning, the first thing is called the doctor's opinion. And in the doctor's opinion, it's describing the powerlessness of alcoholism. The, the, the inability to choose the, the hopelessness, you know, that it even specifically describes, um, hopeless alcoholics, uh, that were determined to die, then became sold on the ideas in this book and, and, and went on to become the finest specimen of man you could ever hope to meet. And somehow, like, uh, my interpretation of that and, and it to this day, my still, my interpretation of that was that, ooh, what it's describing is that the, the worst, the case of the alcoholism, the worse off the, the, the more of a candidate you are for recovery in, in, in retrospect, that very core belief that I was a write off, that I was a lost cause.

Steve-O (01:05:28):

That I was hopeless. That I was just, you know, that that is the first step. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that in, in my believing that there was no hope for me. That I was a lost cause. That that is precisely the admission. We admitted that we were powerless of our alcohol. So, sorry, that my first step. So that was like, oh. And, and, and there there's so many of these paradoxes in recovery. Like, um, we find hope in hopelessness, we find strength and powerlessness. Yeah. Strength and powerlessness. Um, victory and surrender, comfort and discomfort. Yeah. Like, uh, there's, that goes on. Self interest through service. Yeah, for sure. That's a great one. Um, so that was my first step, and I think I acknowledged it as such. But that didn't bring about willingness. It just brought about acknowledgement. Oh, the, I, it occurred to me that the book was describing me as a candidate for recovery because that hopelessness is actually an asset.

Steve-O (01:06:30):

And then, I believe it was the next day, maybe it was the day after, um, uh, the panel of guys, the, the three members of Alcoholics Anonymous came into the psych ward to, to tell their stories. Not because they were in trouble and had to do it, not because they were being paid or benefiting from it, but they were just doing it just to come in and, and just do it. And, um, again, I had absolutely nothing better to do in that psych ward Yeah. Than to go and listen to these guys. I wouldn't, like, were I, were I not locked up in a psych ward? I never would've read that book. Never would've opened my mind to go listen to people tell their story of, of aa. But I went in there and I remember the three guys. I remember them not being the kind of guys that, that I would, you know, party with or associate with, but, but as they each described their, their disease, their, their using it, you know, I could tell that, uh, they weren't bullshitting, you know?

Steve-O (01:07:27):

Hmm. Like, they, they described having suffered from alcoholism and addiction in a way that, that, uh, I related to that I believed. And then they went on to describe the, you know, their program of recovery. And, and, uh, it, it, I like, there's something a step two, we came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore it to sanity came to believe. So there's something that they, they, they came to believe in the power greater of ourselves. What we're talking about is faith. Yeah. There's no way around it. Step two is about, about faith. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And the way that I describe my step two, not even realizing that, that that's what was happening, was that I, I knew these guys weren't bullshitting me when they described being alcoholics and addicts. I knew, I, I could see, I could see with my own eyes that they were clean and sober.

Steve-O (01:08:19):

They, there was evident what they were talking about was, was real. So I came to believe that what they were describing as their program of recovery, that the what they do to stay sober, that it worked for them. And I could do that. It didn't require any blind faith on my part to believe that what they were talking about worked for them, because I could see that it worked for them. So I came to believe that their AA business worked for them, and I could argue it would be impossible for me to have come to believe that their program of recovery worked for them and not believe that it could work for me. So that was me. I came to believe that what these guys were talking about helped them and that it could be the solution for me. And then after they told their stories, then they, they started giving out pamphlets and this and that. They had, uh, the 20 questions of Alcoholics Anonymous, which I find really hilarious. Like, um, 20 questions, they say, like, if you answer one, one, yes, then there's a good chance you're an alcoholic. If you answer like two, then yeah. You know, like, if you

Moby (01:09:22):

Answer three, you're dead <laugh>.

Steve-O (01:09:24):

Yeah. I mean, dude, I, I had a couple that, uh, I believe I could have argued were not applicable to me due to my special circumstances in life. But, um, otherwise I just completely aced the test. I mean, that the, those, those 20 questions absolutely painted me into a corner. Hmm. You know, like, so I was confronted with like, uh, first I thought there's nothing that could be done. That was my step one. Then I, it's my step two is I realized, oh, there is something that, that can be done. And then step three, with those 20 questions, I was like, and I have to do it <laugh>, you know, I was just painted into a corner and I remember just thinking, God, this sucks and I, I gotta do this. And then there was my step three was where I was just like, man.

Steve-O (01:10:12):

Like, and I gotta do this. And I remember my decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of God as I understood them, was just as simple as I gotta do. I gotta do what these guys just described that they do. And the, that journey for me is gonna begin with going into a rehab. So I just turn, I turned my will and my life over to the care of laws and CNAs Hospital <laugh>, which at the time, um, my buddy Dr. Drew was the, um, director of the Chemical Dependency Unit. Remember showing up there and saying to Dr. Drew,

Moby (01:10:47):

Wait, were you in that show Celebrity rehab?

Steve-O (01:10:50):

He was, he was trying to get me on there because

Moby (01:10:52):

Celebrity rehab, I, when I first got sober, I all of a sudden had a lot of free time and I got to start watching TV again. Yeah. Uh, so I ate a lot of cereal and I watched a lot of tv and I watched celebrity rehab, which was very entertaining. Like shifty shell shock, smoking crack on the roof of the rehab. But I do remember watching it thinking, huh, maybe I don't have have as much of a problem as I thought I did. I

Steve-O (01:11:14):

Used to watch intervention to make myself feel better about my situation. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Again, and thank God I didn't, I didn't fall for that. They kept, they kept like increasing the numbers of, of, uh, money that they were throwing at me to get me to do that. And how I'm

Moby (01:11:28):

Really glad I did so since then. So that was roughly 15 years

Steve-O (01:11:32):

Ago. Yeah. A little over 15 years

Moby (01:11:33):

Ago. Um, so you just had your 15 year anniversary. Yeah. Congratulations. Uh, in those 15 years, have you been tempted to go back out?

Steve-O (01:11:41):

There was a time when Charlie Sheen was doing his whole Tiger Blood thing, and like he got on Twitter, like, had like a million Twitter followers overnight announced that, uh, he was going on like a, some torpedo of truth tour sold out, like properly massive theaters mm-hmm. <affirmative> on like one tweet. And I remember just thinking, dude, this guy's like outta control. He is the most famous guy in the world right now. He is just sold out a huge theater tour with one tweet. I was like, man, if I got loaded, I could really <laugh>

Moby (01:12:20):

<laugh>. So the, the career expediency of relapsing. Yeah. Right.

Steve-O (01:12:24):

Like, I mean, how funny is that? Because once again, like confronted with the most horrific display of the destruction of addiction. It looks like a good idea to me. <laugh>

Moby (01:12:35):

<laugh>.

Steve-O (01:12:36):

Like, uh, yeah. I mean, there were a few times I just thought, oh man, I'd get a lot of attention if I just said, it. But

Moby (01:12:42):

Then it's not, it has diminishing returns.

Steve-O (01:12:46):

Oh, I, I couldn't agree more. And, um, the, uh, actually I wrote about that in my second book, which, um, I I, I fully acknowledge it, you know, but the, this is particularly pertinent, your point about how entertaining celebrity rehab was, there's nothing inherently entertaining about recovery. It's just li like entertaining television programming mm-hmm. <affirmative> and meaningful recovery, mutually exclusive.

Moby (01:13:21):

I, yeah. I

Steve-O (01:13:22):

Mutually, it's, it does

Moby (01:13:23):

Seem weird that someone had the idea of like, okay, we're gonna take people at their darkest Right. Most vulnerable moments and we're gonna monetize it.

Steve-O (01:13:31):

Right. And the, the concept of, uh, the, I mean, it's just so based on like the, the, the crashing and burning and the salacious of the mm-hmm. <affirmative> of the disease, like the actual recovery part is, uh, really the boring part. You know? So again, I'm really glad that, that I didn't fall for the celebrity. I didn't go for the celebrity rehab thing. I also think that there's a legal question about whether, uh, people can sign the binding contracts agreeing to be on it, considering the shape that they're in. Yeah.

Moby (01:14:06):

So, but one thing about the second step, it's the only language in the 12 steps I take issue with is when it says, return us return to sanity. And I was like, but I've never been sane. Right. Like, how can I, how can I become sane, restored to sanity, restore to sanity? Like, I can't be restored to something I've never experienced. Like I've been mentally ill and dysfunctional probably since before I was born.

Steve-O (01:14:32):

I, I, I, I agree with that. That wasn't one that I particularly took issue with, but, uh, but yeah, you sold, you got me on that one. The one that, the, the problem I have with the language in the 12 steps is on step four, we made a fearless

Moby (01:14:48):

And searching inventory

Steve-O (01:14:49):

And searching moral inventory. Oh, yeah. Like the, the word fearless in there just seems to suggest that the fourth step is something that we should be afraid of. Like, why, why, why that? Why, why would I, why would I be fearless about it if, uh,

Moby (01:15:05):

Even though it is a something terrifying? It's so, it's a having Lindsay, have you done the for It's a

Lindsay (01:15:10):

Scary I have, and it was, I was afraid because I had to look at things I was terrified to look at, which is why I was engaging in the addictive behaviors to begin with, is to avoid looking at the scary thing.

Steve-O (01:15:21):

Right. Okay. And then a moral inventory, like

Moby (01:15:25):

Moral part seem very sort of early t 20th century

Steve-O (01:15:27):

<laugh>. So, so fear, the, the words fearless, immoral to me suggests that, that it's an exercise that I should be afraid of and that it's got something to do with how I'm a bad person. Mm-hmm. And, and I think I particularly feel that way because my first approach to the fourth step, it was just kind of like, okay, now I'm just gonna, I'm gonna make an an inventory. I'm gonna write down a big list of, uh, of what makes me a terrible person. You know, like, uh, my, it's a

Lindsay (01:15:55):

Leading thing. It says, right. You're gonna be afraid and you're gonna write down

Moby (01:15:59):

They're, they call 'em personality defects. Right. Which is definitely language wise, like, I feel like they could come up with something better than personality defects. So,

Steve-O (01:16:05):

So I, I, I had a thing, and at the top of the page I wrote icky guilt, you know, just things that, the icky terrible things I had to confess to the, like, um, you know, and, uh, and in the 12 and 12 it talks about, um, many of us balked at this moral inventory and we'd, you know, pride in reverse and self-loathing. And, and, and I basically just kind of put down all the reasons why I thought I was a terrible person. All of the evidence of me being a moral just piece of. And, uh, by the time I got done with it, I remember, I remember going through it with my sponsor and thinking like, man, I don't understand how people can say they do their fifth step and they feel a weightlifter off their shoulders. Like, I just feel like, like the, the worst, terrible piece of. Like, uh, I can't forgive myself. And I ended up, uh, with the Fourth Step blues in, in Psych Ward number two, which I actually turned myself into. 'cause I was like, I just feel suicidal. Like, I hate myself. Like, I'm a piece of. And I don't, I can't forgive myself for what a piece of I am.

Moby (01:17:07):

That's also one of the paradoxes of a right. Is like, I'm not, I'm not just a loathsome piece of. I'm the most loathsome piece of of all time. Like the sort of the, like, the biggest, I definitely suffered from that of like, almost like nihilistic narcissism. Sure,

Steve-O (01:17:22):

Yeah. The biggest piece of the world ever revolved around. I'm the best

Moby (01:17:26):

Piece of that the world has ever seen. Yeah. And

Steve-O (01:17:28):

I took it to crazy, like, like, oh yeah, this is all about God. Well, like, I can't respect any God that would forgive me, <laugh>,

Moby (01:17:36):

The Groucho Marks thing. I'd never want to belong to any club that would have me as a member. Right.

Steve-O (01:17:40):

So having had that experience and, and spent another three weeks and Psych Ward number two, I, I just, I look back on it and I, I think, you know, for me, when I take, when I take people through the steps, I say like, the, the, the fourth step inventory is we're, we're, we're, we're, we're making it. We're we're gonna, we're gonna list as many examples as we can think of, of things that make us uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we're gonna, you know, like, then there's really three buckets that discomfort is gonna land in. You know, we're not comfortable when we feel angry and, you know, resentful. So, and we're not comfortable when we're gripped by fear, when we're terrified, and we're not comfortable when we feel guilty. So there's the anger list, the fear list, and the guilty list. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, so the purpose of this isn't to determine whether we're good or bad, or, or whether we, you know, it's not supposed to be scary. We, it's gonna make example. We're gonna, we're gonna come up with as many examples of things that make us uncomfortable as we can, so that we can look at them and figure out how to protect ourselves from being uncomfortable.

Lindsay (01:18:50):

It becomes more actionable instead of just a pity <crosstalk>, it becomes Right. Here's things I can actually heal and fix. Right.

Steve-O (01:18:56):

So, so maybe if it's, if instead of saying a fearless and searching moral inventory ourselves, if it said, you know, we made a thorough inventory of things that made us uncomfortable and, uh, took a new approach or, you know,

Moby (01:19:11):

And saw how they might not have been based on reality as well. Right?

Steve-O (01:19:14):

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so

Lindsay (01:19:15):

It's now less self-flagellating Yeah. And more evolution.

Moby (01:19:19):

Yeah. Um, so before we say goodbye and let you go on to your fun day. Yeah. <laugh>, uh, there are a couple of quick things I wanted to bring up. One, um, after your metal period, did you in fact have a sort of punk rock period, or did they overlap big

Steve-O (01:19:36):

Time. Okay. The, the heavy metal gave way to punk rock, and that was, um, punk rock initially being the sort of a soundtrack to skateboarding.

Moby (01:19:46):

Yeah. So, okay. So then quick fun, lightning round, top five punk rock bands of all time. Yeah. Yeah. Favorites. I

Steve-O (01:19:53):

Think Gorilla Biscuits is a big deal for me.

Moby (01:19:56):

Yeah. We talked about like Cats and Dogs. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (01:19:58):

Yep. Gorilla Biscuits, Bad Brains. I mean, just as like, it's so ingrained in my, in my youth and Misfits, I'm gonna count them. Oh,

Moby (01:20:07):

You have your Alfred e Newman Misfits tattoo. Yeah. Uhhuh <affirmative>.

Steve-O (01:20:11):

Um, you know, this is a totally different one, but, uh, how many, um, punk rock band acronyms. MDC? Yeah. JFA

Moby (01:20:20):

DRI

Steve-O (01:20:21):

DRI

Moby (01:20:22):

GBH. Yeah, that's a good one. Punk rock band acronyms. They're so like,

Steve-O (01:20:26):

R K L <laugh>,

Moby (01:20:28):

I don't know. R K L,

Steve-O (01:20:29):

Uh, Rich Kids on L S D.

Moby (01:20:30):

Okay. No, I didn't know them. <laugh>,

Steve-O (01:20:32):

They're great. Okay. They do. There's so, there's so many of 'em.

Moby (01:20:36):

Yeah. 'cause there was a lot of people who went from like punk rock to metal, and then some people went from metal to punk rock. Okay. So then favorite metal bands. You mentioned Iron Maiden. You mentioned Mötley Crü. Yeah, I mean, mean Iron Maiden. As weird as this is gonna sound, I don't wanna get in trouble with maiden fans. I never really saw them as being metal. Like, to me, they're sort of like British hard rock in the sort of like,

Steve-O (01:20:56):

No, they're definitely metal. Then. Uh, I'm, I'm go back to the, the best punk. I don't know why I keep leaning towards S N F U, but, but, but I don't, I I'm not, I'm not giving them, uh,

Moby (01:21:08):

Any of the like, early Amer like Circle Jerks, Fugazi. Okay.

Steve-O (01:21:11):

Fugazi. Like go, I'll go Fugazi big time. And Fugazi over Minor Threat too. Really?

Moby (01:21:16):

I think so. Okay. Wow. I can <laugh>. I just minor. 'cause minor threat were so profoundly important to me when I was, I mean, I love Fugazi. Yeah. But like, Minor Threat. It was the first time I'd ever seen the punk rock kids who looked like me and Uhhuh. Like, it was the first American hardcore, it was like, oh, they're like, like, like they're, they're wearing jeans and t-shirts and sneakers and hoodies and so am I. Like, I, there was such a sense of identity when I saw like, the picture of them sitting on the steps at Discord House.

Steve-O (01:21:48):

Um, so then I just need one more

Moby (01:21:50):

Okay. Gorilla. You know what, Gorilla Biscuits, Bad Brains. Um,

Steve-O (01:21:54):

Misfits.

Moby (01:21:54):

Misfits. Fugazi

Steve-O (01:21:56):

Fugazi. Yeah.

Moby (01:21:58):

I can see you sort of like mentally going through your record collection right now. <laugh>.

Steve-O (01:22:02):

Yeah, for sure. You know what, like this, this is not, not even gonna count, but, you know, a band that, have you ever heard of Firehose? Yeah.

Moby (01:22:10):

Mike Watt, right? Yeah.

Steve-O (01:22:11):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Did I tell you about how I go on a trip and I'll just listen to an album on a Loop? I did that with Firehose with their first two albums for my three weeks in the uk. Just those two album

Moby (01:22:21):

Done. See, I think I'm gonna, I think that would count. 'cause Mike Watt was in the Minutemen, right?

Steve-O (01:22:24):

Oh, I, I didn't even know that. But I

Moby (01:22:25):

Think Mike Watt was in the Minutemen maybe for a while. I thought he was in Husker Do. But I think he was in the Minutemen and obviously the Minutemen were legendary punk rockers. So like, I feel like anything that comes from the world of hardcore is still like hardcore by adjacency. Yeah.

Steve-O (01:22:43):

D r I made me really happy too.

Moby (01:22:46):

But Lindsay DRI stands for Dirty Rotten Imbeciles, and they were one of the first bands who sort of moved into the metal realm. They were legendary for having the shortest song, the fastest, shortest songs. Like,

Steve-O (01:22:57):

Ooh, Descendants. Yeah.

Moby (01:22:58):

My

Steve-O (01:22:59):

Where where are they at? In my list. They're

Moby (01:23:00):

Still Oh yeah, but they're still touring. Descendants are still out there. Um, but DRI,

Steve-O (01:23:04):

I think I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna swap out DRI with Descendants. Okay. Just because descendants I feel is just somehow more meaningful.

Moby (01:23:11):

The songs are a little more composed. Like DRI would play a show with 30 songs and it would be 18 minutes long <laugh>. Wow.

Steve-O (01:23:19):

Yeah. "Every day I gets pissed slip my wrist slip my wrist "<laugh>. Yeah.

Moby (01:23:23):

Well, I would love to both come and hang out with you and the thousand rescued animals. Yeah. And also maybe like, um, do some circus tricks on stage. I love keeping in mind, I don't know how to do circus tricks. Yeah. I

Steve-O (01:23:37):

Love it. But you can, I I I can, I can teach you, uh, I can teach you some cool tricks.

Moby (01:23:42):

Not, not slice my tongue open with a razor blade.

Steve-O (01:23:44):

Right,

Moby (01:23:44):

Right. I last time I, I saw you perform at a fundraiser a couple years ago. Oh wow. Okay. And on stage you sliced your tongue open with a razor blade. And the audience,

Steve-O (01:23:53):

It was broken glass, but

Moby (01:23:54):

Okay.

Steve-O (01:23:54):

I broke a light bulb over my head.

Lindsay (01:23:56):

And then cut your mouth with it as you do naturally. What else would you do for a fundraiser? The tongue

Steve-O (01:24:01):

Is, the tongue is the fastest healing organ. It stops bleeding right away. And you got like, yeah, there you go. I have my Nicky six my time Heal. <laugh>

Lindsay (01:24:10):

<laugh> <laugh>.

Moby (01:24:12):

Um, Lindsay, anything, any last minute? Well, I

Lindsay (01:24:14):

Wonder if we should talk, 'cause I know you've done a couple of comedy specials. Yeah. I've written some books. Are you gonna do either of those things again or are you gonna do something?

Steve-O (01:24:22):

I just taped my third comedy special in London.

Lindsay (01:24:26):

Amazing.

Steve-O (01:24:27):

And it, it's, it is absolutely the crown jewel of my entire career. I could not be more thrilled about it. Wow.

Moby (01:24:34):

Congratulations. For this

Steve-O (01:24:35):

Third comedy special. I really genuinely believe that my standup has caught up to my stunts. Awesome. And it's a multimedia affair, which, um, brings all of my worlds together. So

Lindsay (01:24:47):

You've got video, you've got stunts, you've got standup.

Steve-O (01:24:51):

Yeah.

Lindsay (01:24:52):

That's incredible.

Steve-O (01:24:53):

And because it's a multimedia show, my lady's the production designer. Nice. She came up with the idea. Well, it's a multimedia show. And after each bit in the act, you played, you know, footage the, of the story happening. She says she, she came up with the idea to, to build a, a wall of a retro TV sets behind me.

Lindsay (01:25:15):

Amazing.

Steve-O (01:25:16):

Well over a hundred TV sets, all of them fully functional.

Moby (01:25:21):

And when and where is this being released?

Steve-O (01:25:24):

Um, it's, uh, particularly naughty. So it, I don't think it's gonna be allowed <laugh>. I think it's gonna be direct to consumer.

Lindsay (01:25:33):

Well, something I saw was that your last special you self-released Yeah. Which is what we did for punk rock. Vegan movie is self-released and mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. It's an amazing pathway to being able to say exactly what you wanna say Sure. And connect directly to the people that are interested in whatever it is you're doing.

Steve-O (01:25:54):

Yeah. I mean, I, I was, I was, um, super thrilled with, uh,

Lindsay (01:25:59):

She did this Yeah, she designed that. Yeah. Look at that. It's really cool.

Steve-O (01:26:05):

Yeah. So kind

Moby (01:26:05):

Of bleeding roses.

Steve-O (01:26:06):

Yeah.

Lindsay (01:26:06):

The Bleeding Roses are sick. That's, that's amazing. What's her name? Yeah.

Steve-O (01:26:11):

Lux.

Lindsay (01:26:12):

Lux. Yeah.

Moby (01:26:12):

Not Lux Interior. That was the singer for The Cramps. <laugh>.

Steve-O (01:26:15):

Yeah. Um, but yeah, so that, that should come out in, in October, I think. Unless there's this other project which, uh, takes precedence and pushes it down the line.

Lindsay (01:26:24):

That's amazing. I can't wait to see it.

Moby (01:26:26):

Well, this has been wonderful. 'cause I know like, well, just as a recap, like we first sort of met

Steve-O (01:26:32):

In Russia.

Moby (01:26:32):

In Russia. So Lindsay, here's a funny little story. I was getting ready to go to bed at my hotel in St. Petersburg, and around one in the morning or so, I get this call from Johnny Knoxville and Steve-o saying like, Hey, Moby, it's the guys we're, or, or the wild boys, I forget whom. Yeah. We're in the lobby. Come hang out with us. And this was before we were sober and a seven hour drunken lunatic crawl through St. Petersburg and sued. And I think one of the next times I saw you was cutting your tongue open on stage with broken glass from a, and I started seeing you at AA meetings. Yeah. Like, I love that we've gotten the chance to like, get to know each other like this. It's really, I

Steve-O (01:27:11):

I do too, man. I, uh, I'm, I, I worship your music. I, I genuinely love your music.

Moby (01:27:20):

Well, thank you.

Steve-O (01:27:21):

And, um, I, uh, every once in a while, I, I, I feel really strongly that music will come out of my shuffle, like, um, with some divine purpose. And, um, it, it, it was very recently where I'm, I'm sure that I had it on shuffle, but somehow my phone just switched over to nothing but Moby. Hmm. And, um, and, and I, I felt that then I was like, man, I really wanna talk to Moby. And, and we reached out to get you on the podcast after that happened.

Moby (01:27:49):

I'm thrilled that God was controlling your Pandora shuffle. <laugh>. Yeah.

Steve-O (01:27:54):

Yeah. It wasn't even Pandora. It was, uh, just what, what I have downloaded in my, uh, my I music. But, but yeah, it's been, it's been a joy. And, uh, yeah, reach out anytime, man. I, I,

Moby (01:28:04):

I don't wanna come over and visit the goats. Come the goats and Lindy, can I try a skateboard thing? Uh,

Lindsay (01:28:09):

Yeah. A hundred. Oh. I mean, you know, maybe holding on to something, holding

Steve-O (01:28:13):

Onto the rings. Yeah. And maybe I, I'm shocked that, that my little gymnastics rings help her out. Or like I, with skateboarding, I did it on my tour bus. I had my mounted gymnastics rings to the, to the ceiling inside the bus. So that,

Lindsay (01:28:27):

That's a business right there.

Steve-O (01:28:28):

Yeah. I mean, to

Lindsay (01:28:30):

Just installing like Steve-O's own like gymnast gymnastic

Moby (01:28:34):

Rings everywhere,

Steve-O (01:28:34):

Like gymnast, it's so anti Steve-O <laugh>

Moby (01:28:36):

They can install. So

Lindsay (01:28:37):

You don't get hurt when you're doing stuff. Right.

Moby (01:28:39):

Yeah. But install them in the shower. Install them in the bedroom, <laugh> and install them in, in the subway from

Lindsay (01:28:44):

Room to room to room. But

Steve-O (01:28:45):

We start building the ramp, uh, Wednesday of next week. Okay. And, uh, about that time I get the initial line cut for, uh, this, this multimedia comedy special,

Lindsay (01:28:55):

Really exciting.

Steve-O (01:28:57):

Next. And then today is my first day shooting the first vignette for my next tour. Wow. My next tour is, um, is, is, uh, gonna tell the story of how I'm confronting middle age and lashing out at father time. So today is, that's

Lindsay (01:29:11):

Great. I will, I will be front row for that one.

Moby (01:29:13):

And so, one, just one quick thing to end on is how remarkable. 'cause none of this amazing stuff would be happening if you were still out there drinking and doing drugs. Ah, for sure, for sure. You know, like right now, I sometimes like to think like, okay, if you and I had gone out drinking and doing drugs last night, I would, we probably be like, passed out hungover, sick asleep, gobbling Xanax and Vicodin just to feel better and like, and like five in the afternoon getting up and feeling sick and disgusting as opposed to like playing with goats, building a halfpipe. Is it, do they call them Halfpipes?

Steve-O (01:29:46):

Uh, yeah, it's a mini ramp. A mini halfpipe. Okay. I just, and

Moby (01:29:48):

Uh, I just like to sound like I sort of know what I'm talking about

Steve-O (01:29:51):

<laugh>, and now I'm off to go see how, uh, how it works. Trying to do a back flip off the roof of a moving car. Okay.

Moby (01:29:57):

Excuse

Steve-O (01:29:57):

Me.

Moby (01:29:57):

<laugh>. Um, yeah.

Lindsay (01:29:58):

Oh, God. Will

Moby (01:30:00):

On that note, will say goodbye. Hopefully not for the last time. Yeah, for

Steve-O (01:30:05):

Sure. Thank you, <laugh>.

Lindsay (01:30:13):

Well, that was unexpected and fun and lovely.

Moby (01:30:16):

Yeah. I love being surprised. Me too. But I also love showing sides of people that the general public might not assume are even there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, like no, as we said at the beginning, like no one would expect this crazy stuntman clown college graduate to be so thoughtful and introspective. I, I love that we're able to have these conversations. And so thank you to Steve-O for coming on and giving us so much of his time and for being such a thoughtful, funny, kind person

Lindsay (01:30:54):

And for leaving. Like, I'm walking away from this conversation with Steve-O feeling so inspired to see someone who has, you know, he's always put himself out there in so many amazing and notable ways, but to see him having this hard time and have given up on himself and have turned his life around and care about himself and the world around him so much to make that change from helplessness to empowerment is so beautiful and encouraging. And it makes me really happy to see him living that.

Moby (01:31:26):

Yep. And my hope is that at some point, relatively soon, we can go visit him and his partner on their gigantic sanctuary and visit a thousand rescued. I don't know. I mean, I'm curious to know how you ever will have a thousand, but like maybe a thousand rescued animals on a sanctuary with a nuclear bunker and a clown performing college area could be achievable and fantastic.

Lindsay (01:31:51):

It's the kind of operation, I think I've been longing for my whole life.

Moby (01:31:55):

<laugh>. In fact, maybe we won't, once he has his gigantic animal sanctuary, nuclear apocalypse, bunker, we might just visit and never leave.

Lindsay (01:32:03):

That's kind of my secret plan. Um, thank you so much to you for listening. Listener, you make this worth it. And when you respond and let us know what you think about the episode at mobypod@moby.com, it really makes our day. So please keep up the conversation with us on email. It is very meaningful. Uh, I also want to thank Jonathan Nesvadba, who masterfully edits these podcasts, um, and does the music production on them. Um, and I wanna thank human content for getting this podcast out into the worldwide app web <laugh>,

Moby (01:32:42):

And, um, yeah. So thank you everyone, and we will see you very soon.

Lindsay (01:32:46):

Bye bye.