Lindsay (00:00:07):

Hi, Moby.

Moby (00:00:08):

Hi Linds. Hi Bagel.

Lindsay (00:00:10):

So the last couple of weeks we have been listening to our interview with Gene Baur, which just what a magical human, and I'm really, really glad we got two whole weeks of Gene. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But because it's your v anniversary, it's your 36th V anniversary. Wouldn't it be fun, maybe <laugh>, if we went on a sort of al and oral journey through everything that you were doing through your vegan life, musically, <laugh>. And also you can tell us all of the other things that were going on, what you were listening to, what you were inspired by, what you were eating, what politically was going on for you. But we can do it through the magic of song.

Moby (00:00:59):

So, okay. I've been vegan for 36 years. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, my awkwardly named vegan anniversary. And if we break that up into, how about we break it up into six year increments?

Lindsay (00:01:12):

You know, it's a nice even number.

Moby (00:01:15):

But here's the weird thing about break. This is, this is where math confuses me. Oh,

Lindsay (00:01:19):

Don't, I can't, I'm no. How to you

Moby (00:01:21):

Here. Okay. So are you ready for some bizarre math if you break 36 years up into six year increments? How many increments is that?

Lindsay (00:01:30):

17. It's

Moby (00:01:31):

Seven 17. What do you mean?

Lindsay (00:01:34):

I'm joking. I don't, I'm not good at

Moby (00:01:36):

Math. Oh, okay. I, I was like seven. Did I do something wrong?

Lindsay (00:01:38):

I'm honestly shocked that I said seven and that was close to what we were

Moby (00:01:41):

Doing. So I assumed 36 years broken into six year increments would be six increments. Turns out it's seven. Isn't that weird? It's

Lindsay (00:01:50):

A little weird.

Moby (00:01:51):

So to your point, so what we're gonna do is like, look at 36 years of veganism starting in 1987 and then going forward in six year increments. Great. Listening to like a piece of music and one thing. Okay. So 1987 I was not releasing music. I had, I was making music, but I hadn't released anything really. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So what if I play an unreleased piece of music from 1987 Ooh.

Lindsay (00:02:16):

From the Vault? That's really fun. What an exclusive experience we're having. Yeah. I

Moby (00:02:20):

Love it. A piece of music that no one has ever heard, except for me.

Lindsay (00:02:23):

Let's do it.

Moby (00:02:24):

Doesn't mean it's good. I just thought, because I didn't start making electronic music records under my name until around 1990.

Lindsay (00:02:32):

Wow. Okay. So we're, this is, this is really exciting. And

Moby (00:02:35):

Then at the very end, how about I play an unreleased song from now today?

Lindsay (00:02:40):

This is getting more exclusive by the second. I can hardly handle it. <laugh>. So,

Moby (00:02:44):

Okay. So let's go back to 1987. Okay,

Lindsay (00:02:46):

Let's go <laugh>.

Moby (00:02:52):

So the year is 1987. Uh, and here in my ignorance, I believe that Ronald Reagan was still president.

Lindsay (00:03:02):

That sounds like it could be correct. Even though it feels like, are we in, um, George Bush Sr. Yet? No,

Moby (00:03:08):

George become, George Bush senior was vice president. Ronald Reagan was president. 'cause George Bush Sr. Was president from 88 until 92.

Lindsay (00:03:17):

Okay. So we have one year left of Reagan at this point. Yeah.

Moby (00:03:19):

So Reagan was president. It's 1987. Uh, I had been a vegetarian for three years. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I was living in an abandoned factory in Connecticut. And I've told this story many times, so I won't dwell on it too much. But I didn't have running water. I had a bathroom that was like about two or 300 yards down the hallway. And it had never been cleaned, or at least

Lindsay (00:03:42):

It haven't been. You also had a bathroom that was a bottle.

Moby (00:03:45):

I did pee in bottles. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:03:46):

<laugh>.

Moby (00:03:47):

And so I was squatting, I was paying no rent. Uh, I paid a security guard $50 a month to sort of look the other way. And I loved it, you know, and it was this, I mean, it was just amazing. There were so many cheap places to live back then. Like even living in New York. My first apartment in New York, which we haven't gotten to yet, was $120 a month.

Lindsay (00:04:08):

That's so insane to me. That's just so not a thing anymore.

Moby (00:04:12):

Back then, you could look at the entire world and just sort of ask yourself like, what interesting, inexpensive city do I wanna live in? Do I wanna live in, is it London? Is it Berlin? Is it New York? Is it Los Angeles? Is it Mexico City? Is it where everything was cheap

Lindsay (00:04:27):

And now you can't get a studio apartment in New York or LA for less than $3,000 a month. Yeah.

Moby (00:04:33):

So that's the scene. So I'm living in this one room, little tiny industrial squat and working on electronic music. And there's a sad component to this.

Lindsay (00:04:45):

Okay.

Moby (00:04:46):

Which is one of my grandmothers had just died. That's

Lindsay (00:04:50):

Very, very sad.

Moby (00:04:51):

She also left me a little bit of money. And with that money I didn't, I, most people would go out and maybe buy clothes or soap or move to a home that had running water. When I say a little bit of money, it was like $10,000, which was, at the time, back then, that's

Lindsay (00:05:07):

A lot of money.

Moby (00:05:07):

I was making $2,000 a year, so it was like five years of my yearly income. So I took the money and I ran out and I bought equipment and I bought a little a, a very early digital sampler. And I bought a drum machine and a sequencer and a four track cassette recorder and some headphones. It was very exciting. How

Lindsay (00:05:27):

Did you learn to use all of that stuff?

Moby (00:05:30):

Simply by wanting to learn how to make electronic music? So I had grown up playing in rock bands. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and New Wave bands. And I was DJing and all the interesting music I was playing as a DJ was electronic. And I just kept wondering like, how do I make this, I want to make the, you know, like, and I knew it was some combination of a drum machine, a sampler and a synthesizer. And so I just knew that I had to own those things in order to make electronic music. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So that's the story behind that piece of music is like one of the first things I ever wrote with my er drum machine and sampler.

Lindsay (00:06:06):

So you got the song, has some samples.

Moby (00:06:09):

Has some samples. I don't know what they are. Really. No, I, I mean this was like a million years ago. <laugh>. I don't know what those samples were or are. I hope I'm, I mean, maybe we'll get in trouble for having uncleared samples. 'cause clearly I didn't even know what a cleared sample involved back then. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So that's the story behind where I was living, what was going on. And then I was also playing in a band we are called Gin train.

Lindsay (00:06:36):

Okay. Gin. Like the um,

Moby (00:06:37):

Like the drink train. Like the train. Okay. <laugh>. And we had a rehearsal in New York one day and I got a piece of cheese pizza. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. 'cause I was still a vegetarian. And I bid into it and I think there was like a piece of meat in the, like an accidental piece of meat in the cheese pizza. And my teeth touched it. And I was like, Nope, I'm done. 'cause I had been reading about veganism. I read this book Diet for a New America, which was about the consequences of meat and dairy production. Who wrote that one? John Robbins.

Lindsay (00:07:06):

John Robbins.

Moby (00:07:07):

And I was going hanging out in health food stores, which was the only place you could find information about veganism back then. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so I bit into this piece of cheese pizza in New York City and my teeth touched what I think was some piece of disgusting meat. And I was like, that's it, I'm done. I'm a vegan. And that was 36 years ago today, basically. Wow. And to put it in a little context, the vegan world back then, I believe consisted of, I think there were two vegan restaurants in the entire world. There are lots of vegetarian restaurants, but I believe in 1987 there was a grand total of two, not one, not three, but two vegan restaurants in the entire global world.

Lindsay (00:07:53):

That's so insane to me. Yeah. Especially because I feel like it just requires so much more effort to include dairy and meat.

Moby (00:08:02):

But back then vegetarian was normal. Like vegetarian, right. Like ev like vegan was so weird. No one even knew how to say the word vegan.

Lindsay (00:08:10):

Even when I went vegan in 2005, people didn't know how to, how to say it. So I can't even imagine what it was like in 1987.

Moby (00:08:17):

Yeah. So walking into a restaurant and I would say like, do you have veg food? They're like, you mean vegan? Like, it was just this constant question about how do you pronounce vegan? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And the restaurant that I would go to whenever I had enough money to go there was Angelica's Kitchen, which at that point was on eighth Street. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> in New York City. And I believe, I mean, that was the only vegan restaurant I knew of. And boy oh boy was it amazing. It was in New York. It was in the East Village when the East Village was super cool. And it was just so fascinating, like this fascinating subculture of veganism and punk rockers and yeah, it felt like every time I was there I felt like I was in the most interesting place on the planet. <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:09:06):

Well, to you, you were.

Moby (00:09:08):

And should we talk about what a vegan diet consisted of in 1987?

Lindsay (00:09:14):

Yeah, absolutely.

Moby (00:09:15):

Okay. So when I was cooking at home and I was broke, I cooked a lot of oats.

Lindsay (00:09:22):

We're talking like oatmeal,

Moby (00:09:25):

Oat oatmeal. But I also invented a thing that I called a whole cake.

Lindsay (00:09:31):

Okay. This feels on brand, but what was it, <laugh>?

Moby (00:09:34):

It was 'cause my grandmother had given me one of her old toaster ovens. 'cause I had free electricity in this where I was squatting. Wow. It sounds so unglamorous, doesn't it? Like your, your grandmother's toaster oven. But what's

Lindsay (00:09:47):

Worse, the most unglamorous part of it is that you told me this once, is that uhoh your bed was a rug you found in a dumpster?

Moby (00:09:55):

No, the rug was a rug I found in a dumpster and the walls.

Lindsay (00:09:58):

Oh, I thought that the bed you were sleeping on a rug as a bed.

Moby (00:10:00):

I did sometimes.

Lindsay (00:10:02):

What did you sleep on as a bed?

Moby (00:10:03):

I had, uh, my childhood twin mattress that I'd had since I was four years old.

Lindsay (00:10:10):

<laugh>.

Moby (00:10:11):

And I was sleeping on that. And because I didn't have running water, um, I don't know if I even want to go into like how infrequently slash never the sheets got washed.

Lindsay (00:10:23):

Yeah, that feels like a step too far. <laugh> <laugh>.

Moby (00:10:27):

Suffice it to say I have no recollection of ever washing the sheets.

Lindsay (00:10:31):

Yeah. And I thought that's what you might say. Yeah. I'm worried uhoh about

Moby (00:10:34):

You long time ago, <laugh>. So

Lindsay (00:10:36):

Maybe that's why you're so impervious to illness now. Um

Moby (00:10:41):

Hmm. Possibly. 'cause I was just living in such a petri dish of my

Lindsay (00:10:45):

Owns Exactly. <laugh>.

Moby (00:10:46):

So I invented this thing called an oat cake or ahoe cake. And what I would do was, and um, yeah, I'm very embarrassed. I was gonna want, okay, one, one more embarrassing little story

Lindsay (00:10:58):

If you're willing to volunteer. I, but

Moby (00:11:00):

Why am I willing to comfort volunteer? I'm comfortable with

Lindsay (00:11:01):

Me

Moby (00:11:02):

Listening to that. I want to tell you this because it's, it's embarrassing in a way that makes me uncomfortable. Not embarrassing. Like, oh, that's kind of cool, but

Lindsay (00:11:09):

Well, maybe it's a kind of exposure therapy, you know? Well, it's bad though. You have to, you can't.

Moby (00:11:13):

Okay. Are you ready?

Lindsay (00:11:13):

Get over it. You have to go through it.

Moby (00:11:16):

And I can't believe we're still only on the first year <laugh>. It's a

Lindsay (00:11:18):

Good year.

Moby (00:11:19):

<laugh>. So I lived in this abandoned factory on this huge abandoned factory complex in Stanford, Connecticut. And I had spray paint. And so I would go around and I would spray paint ho cake posse. 'cause I made little ho cakes. And I was like, so

Lindsay (00:11:40):

It was like the call to people that were like, no, it was only hankering for a whole cake.

Moby (00:11:44):

So they knew cake posse of one. Like, oh, you

Lindsay (00:11:46):

Were your of the whole posse

Moby (00:11:47):

<laugh>. And I thought it was such a funny idea that it's like the saddest posse in the world. It's like a vegan oat cake posse of one person who makes these little oat cakes in his grandmother's cast off toaster oven. Yeah. You're looking at me with pity. Understandably. I'm just,

Lindsay (00:12:05):

It's it's cute in a way you were tagging oat cake

Moby (00:12:10):

To myself and to like, on the rare occasion when like a friend would come over, they'd be like, oh, that's that. That's you. That's kind of sad that you,

Lindsay (00:12:18):

I have to say, if I came into, um, the kind of the abandoned factory that had never been cleaned with sheets that had never been cleaned, where you didn't have running water where

Moby (00:12:28):

The walls were made out of plywood that we found in the dumpster,

Lindsay (00:12:31):

Et cetera. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I would accept your ho cake. Even if it was from the ho cake posse. Yeah.

Moby (00:12:40):

It, well the food, I mean, it was ground up oats. You, you just take oatmeal, put it in a blender and you grind it up and make oat flour. And then you add water. And I would add some, maybe some sesame seeds, some raisins for extra protein. Maybe some, some soy bits like soy grits or something. They're really good. You

Lindsay (00:12:59):

Have soy bits.

Moby (00:13:00):

You'd go to the whole food store in the bulk bin. You get soy bits. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:13:03):

Don't even really know what soy bits are. But I'm really glad that you found them.

Moby (00:13:06):

I don't really know what they are. They were like little yellow things. It wasn't textured veg, texturized vegetable protein. It was like, I guess chopped up soybeans. Crazy.

Lindsay (00:13:13):

Yeah.

Moby (00:13:14):

So crazy. So that was my staple. I made that constantly.

Lindsay (00:13:19):

Soy bit gang. Yeah. No. Be and the soy bit gang <laugh>.

Moby (00:13:22):

Okay. So that's 1987. Was there, what else do you want? What else should we talk

Lindsay (00:13:26):

About? Like, well, I really wanna hear the song.

Moby (00:13:28):

Okay. Well, so here is, that's the aforementioned song. One of the first things I ever made with my, the drum machine and sampler and, uh, sequencer and synthesizer I bought with the $10,000 I inherited from my grandmother.

Sampled Vocals (00:13:44):

We must be in heaven. We must be in heaven. We must be in heaven. We must be in heaven. We must be in, we must be in heaven. We must be in heaven. We must be in heaven.

Sampled Vocals (00:14:15):

Revolution in America. Revolution in America, revolution in America, revolution in America. Revolution in America, revolution in America, revolution in America. The man next. Use your brother Revolution in America, the man next to use your brother.

Sampled Vocals (00:14:53):

We must be in heaven. We must be in heaven. We must be in heaven. We must be in. We must be in heaven.

Lindsay (00:15:16):

Moby, that song was really fun, but I wish you could remember what that came from. Because to me it sounds like, is that Jeff Bridges?

Moby (00:15:22):

I don't think it was Jeff Bridges.

Lindsay (00:15:24):

Well, it was really cool. I

Moby (00:15:26):

Love, I I have no recollection of where the samples came from. That's

Lindsay (00:15:29):

A Did you, would you just like record an active of television or how, or like a radio or like how did you record that? Y

Moby (00:15:37):

You would, sometimes it was from an old. So what I would sometimes do is go to local public libraries and check out vinyl. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and weird vinyl of like news reports from 1936 and spoken word poetry. Like I had this other song, I found this old recording of Ezra Pound the Poet Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> reading his poetry at the end of his life. And so I used some of those samples in a song. So a lot of the samples, boy, that's how am I so good at taking something that could be cool and making it the least cool thing possible, like electronic music, underground music, squatting in an abandoned factory. And I'm going to the public library to check out records. And that's where I get my samples from.

Lindsay (00:16:20):

I mean, I think it's pretty inventive and fun and cute.

Moby (00:16:23):

It was free. I was broke. It's

Lindsay (00:16:25):

Super nerd

Moby (00:16:26):

Core. And so I would, I would go to the public library and check out vinyl and take it to my studio, play it on a record player and record it into the sampler. It's

Lindsay (00:16:34):

Really fun. So, okay. So the next year it would be, um,

Moby (00:16:38):

Moving forward six years, moving forward

Lindsay (00:16:40):

Six years to 1993.

Moby (00:16:42):

Correct.

Lindsay (00:16:43):

And what song do we have here? Because now we might be getting into a place where we've got some recognizable tage. Do, are we,

Moby (00:16:51):

What, what did I pick? Or is I just,

Lindsay (00:16:53):

Uh,

Moby (00:16:53):

Okay. 1987, I was living in the abandoned factory desperately trying to get a record deal, DJing and dive bars. And then in 1989, I got my first record deal with this label called Instinct Records. And then the rave scene exploded. And somehow I very enthusiastically got caught up in the rave scene. And I moved to New York and I was DJing at Limelight and all these other cool clubs and making rave records. And then all of a sudden I had a hit in the UK and I'm flying back and forth to Europe. And then the rave scene in the States just started exploding. And I went on tour with the Prodigy and I went on tour with Orbital and Apex Twin and all these different people in the world of electronic music. And it was so exciting. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So 1993, uh, I was living in New York.

Moby (00:17:43):

I was living at 3 0 8 Mott Street. Uh, my friend Lee and I were living there together. We had this tiny little apartment. And each of us, I think we were paying $400 a month rent, which at the time made us feel like millionaires <laugh>. Like, how in the world can we afford $400 a month rent? And I was just touring constantly. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> back and forth to, to Germany, to Japan, to Australia, to South America, everywhere in North America, Canada, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Just constant touring. And it was so exciting. And this song, ah, ah, was the first song I ever licensed to a movie. What movie? Movie called Cool World. I love

Lindsay (00:18:25):

That movie.

Moby (00:18:25):

You're kidding. I

Lindsay (00:18:26):

Love that movie.

Moby (00:18:27):

You've seen Cool World, huh? No one's seen

Lindsay (00:18:29):

Uhhuh. No. 'cause it was, who did the voice of, like the Pretty Lady? Was it Kim? Kim Inger?

Moby (00:18:34):

Well, there was, there were, okay.

Lindsay (00:18:35):

There's like a pretty cartoon

Moby (00:18:37):

Lady. Well, there was Roger Rabbit and then there's Cool World and Yeah. No, no, this is not Roger. This is, oh,

Lindsay (00:18:41):

I know. This one had, what was it? Was it Brad Pitt? Brad

Moby (00:18:44):

Pitt. Brad Pitt was

Lindsay (00:18:45):

In it. Yeah. A young Brad Pitt. And I think that Kim Bessinger did the voice of like, the kind of like sexy blonde lady.

Moby (00:18:51):

I get this confused with Roger Rabbit. 'cause Roger Rabbit was a huge success. Cool. World was not,

Lindsay (00:18:57):

I loved Cool World. Interesting because I also loved Roger Rabbit. But they both live very separately in my head. Because, because the thing that they have in common is that they both are, uh, live action with animated characters within the live action of it

Moby (00:19:11):

All. I can't believe you've seen Cool World. Oh

Lindsay (00:19:14):

Yeah. I loved

Moby (00:19:14):

It. Wow. So the Cool World soundtrack was the first techno soundtrack. And it was kind of like, 'cause at this point, especially in the United States, techno rave music, electronic music was so underground. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> didn't get played on the radio except for one station in Los Angeles called Mars fm. So it was so underground and all of a sudden there was this soundtrack for a Hollywood movie that had techno on it. And it was so unprecedented. And so this song, ah, ah, that was my first film license to This to Cool World, was also the song that I opened every live show with. So that's why I picked this song in particular. 'cause it just sounds like that period, the sort of like, it was dance music, but it was kind of aggressive. It was a little bit inspired by industrial music, but ravers still liked it. So

Lindsay (00:20:06):

Have you ever, when you're making a song, had to bang on a pipe as an instrument, have you ever done pipe banging as an instrument? Uh,

Moby (00:20:13):

Because

Lindsay (00:20:13):

When I hear when you say industrial, I hear, oh, Moby was probably banging on hella pipes back then. You know

Moby (00:20:18):

What I mean? Well, industrial was stuff like Nine Inch Nails. I see. NRE Industrial originally. So a little sidebar about industrial music. It did start out with people banging on pipes. So you're absolutely right. Like test department where this early industrial band, and they were legendary for when they played a live show on their way to the venue, they would stop in abandoned lots and grab pieces of metal to, to perform with when they played live. Wow. So industrial did start with banging on pipes, but then by the end of the eighties it just became like ministry and Nine Inch Nails. I

Lindsay (00:20:54):

See.

Moby (00:20:55):

So, and, and a ah, some early techno was popular with the industrial kids 'cause it had an aggressive quality. Were you

Lindsay (00:21:02):

Really getting something outta your system there? Oh yeah. You had a lot of aggression.

Moby (00:21:06):

No, a lot of just enthusiasm. I was so Oh, I see. I was so excited by everything <laugh>. I was excited by music. The, the world in 1993 was so new. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Bill Clinton was a new, he was a young president. He was a democrat. Al Gore, this new vice president who was concerned about climate change, the internet, the worldwide web hadn't been invented yet.

Lindsay (00:21:30):

So crazy.

Moby (00:21:31):

But the internet existed and we were like, wow, someday this might enable people to like, make phone calls without using the phone. Like the, the future. It felt like there was this wonderful new future that was unfolding.

Lindsay (00:21:44):

Everything felt so hopeful. Yeah. We didn't know how dark it would become.

Moby (00:21:48):

We re the Soviet Union had ended and Russia was Yeah. Was joining, was talking about joining nato. Yeah. It was a pretty idyllic time. And rave music reflected that, you know, with this enthusiasm and this joy and like the equipment was new, the sounds were new, the genre was new. It really felt like the world was moving in this wonderful, optimistic, futuristic direction.

Lindsay (00:22:13):

That must have felt so nice. I think I was a little too young to really grasp how hopeful things felt. But boy, I bet that felt cool.

Moby (00:22:21):

It, but it also, and we're sort of getting away from the vegan part, I guess. We'll, okay, we'll get back to the veganism in a second. But 1993, that trajectory of history, the weird thing is it also made sense. Like the optimism seemed like a very logical extension of everything that had come before it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, like we had recognized the problems of the 20th century. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, fascism, intolerance, racism, homophobia, sexism, and we were moving past them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and culture was getting smarter and funnier. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, this was the era of the Simpsons criticizing politics and Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Twin Peaks had already happened. So like culture felt very smart and interesting and we just assumed it would keep getting smarter and more interesting. And we assumed everything would keep getting better. And clearly that has not been the case. Nope.

Lindsay (00:23:11):

So <laugh>, um, very, very sad, laughing and all the while

Moby (00:23:15):

Because the alternative is to just jump off a building. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:23:17):

All the while they were like, you know, what we should do is we should take all the funding away from public education and make this nation into a very scary place. Anyway. Um, so here's what I'm imagining. I'm imagining you having the time of your life. It's all very exciting. You're DJing until late and

Moby (00:23:33):

Playing and also DJing, but also mainly playing live Uhhuh. So I'd show up with like keyboards and drum machines and play these live shows.

Lindsay (00:23:40):

And you're having these exciting, energetic live shows and you're sweating and you're jumping around and everyone's freaking out. And then you get home and you're like, I wonder if I have enough yeast to make a little loaf of bread.

Moby (00:23:51):

Uh, I, at this point, I was not doing a lot of bread baking. Okay. I had done bread baking in the late eighties. 'cause I needed to Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, 'cause also during this time I was, I was a sober vegan Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I was going to Angelica's Kitchen a lot, but also discovering the world of vegan Asian food. Mm. Because I lived on Mott Street and so I lived right next to Chinatown. Yep. And my friends and I ventured down on Mott Street and I was like, oh my God, there's vegan Chinese food everywhere. <laugh>. And it was so good. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> not the healthiest, you know, 'cause it was kind of greasy, processed, fried, but oh my goodness. Some. And they all were so e it was so easy to find these restaurants. 'cause they all had the word veggie in them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, there was vegan paradise. There was, I mean, just like everything. Veggie heaven, ve you know, so you'd walk down Mott Street and you'd walk on these little side streets in Chinatown until you found another Buddhist vegan Chinese restaurant.

Lindsay (00:24:58):

I love that. Here's, here's a question because I know you were touring a lot at this time. But here's something I also know about you is that when you travel now you take a loaf of bread from the little package, like the Ezekiel Mm-Hmm. Four nine bread. And you take all the bread out of the bag and you make all of that bread into little sandwiches. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches

Moby (00:25:22):

And some hummus and

Lindsay (00:25:23):

Vegetables and some hummus and vegetable sandwiches. And then you stick them all back in the plastic.

Moby (00:25:28):

Well, sort of. No, I I I 'cause if you put like peanut butter and apple butter

Lindsay (00:25:34):

Oh yeah. You don't wanna mix the

Moby (00:25:35):

Sandwiches next to hummus and onion and unpleasant. The, the onion and the hummus definitely does not help the peanut butter, apple butter sandwich.

Lindsay (00:25:45):

So you have them separate, but you still put them.

Moby (00:25:47):

So, so basically when I travel, I make sandwiches. When

Lindsay (00:25:49):

You travel, you make sandwiches. But the way that you do it, I think I've never seen anything like it in my life. It all feels very novel to me. So what I wonder is, were you doing that at this time?

Moby (00:25:58):

Back then, I mean, touring as a vegan in 1993 was very challenging. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, there was no internet. There was no Happy Cow website. And so when I got to a place, I would just ask everybody. I was like, where's the health food store? Where is there a vegetarian restaurant? Um, and you started learning that you could get vegan food in non-vegan places. Like if you're in some part of Eastern Europe that doesn't have vegan restaurants, you could go to an Italian restaurant and just order like spaghetti with tomato sauce. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, but I also, I traveled with so much food back then. Mm. I traveled with soy milk, I traveled with bread, I traveled with cereal. Anything you could get your hands on, you would just like pack your luggage with food

Lindsay (00:26:50):

Smart.

Moby (00:26:51):

I'm a little more methodical now, but also, 'cause now I only need to eat while I'm getting somewhere. Like once almost everywhere you go now has vegan food and has great big whole foods or health food stores. So back then, yeah. You are sort of like showing up in Macedonia or showing up in, I don't know, Hungary, the Czech Republic. Back then it was Czechoslovakia, you know, showing up in all these places, not knowing if you're going to eat. And so the staple then when you toured was bread. Bread and peanut butter. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and oats again. But like, 'cause if you had those things, you could, you could always keep yourself from starving. Wow.

Lindsay (00:27:32):

Survival, man. Yeah. So do you wanna listen to the song? Yeah. Let's play the, the 1993 song. Let's

Moby (00:27:37):

Play. I mean, do you wanna play the whole thing or just play part of it? Let's

Lindsay (00:27:40):

Play, let's play a little

Moby (00:27:41):

Snippet. Okay. So here's ah, ah, the first song I ever licensed to a film 1993. And also the song that I opened my live sets with forever for the longest time. Ah,

Lindsay (00:28:51):

Um, let's do a little jump ahead. Let's,

Moby (00:28:53):

So we're going forward in increments of six years. So we're, I guess we're now at 1999.

Lindsay (00:28:58):

It's true. And so, 1999, I feel like there's a lot of action in 1999. Would you say

Moby (00:29:04):

1999 was a very interesting year for me. Selfishly. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> politically. Let's just, 'cause we keep talking about politics. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like 1987, Ronald Reagan was president in the United States, felt like conservative and kind of dull. 1993. Bill Clinton. When Al Gore, the world felt kind of dynamic and exciting. 1999 was the end of the Clinton presidency. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And we just assumed that in 2000 Al Gore would be elected president. But it's 1999. So at the end of the Clinton presidency, the world is still feeling pretty optimistic. The worldwide web is this new thing. There are these websites that people go to to get information. And I, at the beginning of 1999, I was, so I was living on Mott Street. I'd moved a block south of where I'd been before. And I bought my first apartment, which not surprisingly when I bought it, had no running water and no bathroom.

Moby (00:29:56):

So slowly over time I renovated it and we put in a kitchen and a bathroom and running water. But more importantly, I built a studio there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But before, let's go. Like, so let's go back a little bit. 1998. Um, and of course I'm still vegan, but I started drinking again. Uhoh. Yeah. Uhoh. So I was out constantly like drunk, hung over, anxious. I was having these terrible panic attacks. 'cause I had lost my record deal and my mom had died and I was going broke. It was just, it was a bad time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, and I was making what I thought was going to be my last album, which was play. And so,

Lindsay (00:30:32):

And you thought you were, you thought you were making your last album as like a farewell to music. And then what did you think you were gonna do?

Moby (00:30:37):

Become an architect, or go back and get my master's in doctorate in philosophy and become a professor. Crazy.

Lindsay (00:30:44):

Well, there's still time. Yeah.

Moby (00:30:45):

<laugh> <laugh>. I have the hairline for it. <laugh>. So, so may of 1999 play is released and it does better than we thought. Okay.

Lindsay (00:30:55):

So what song do you feel like encapsulates this moment in time in 1999? The best? Well,

Moby (00:31:01):

The song, I mean, obviously on play, a lot of those songs ended up becoming surprisingly well known. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But the song that that first started, it was, why does My Heart feel so bad? 'cause play was released, we thought it was gonna fail, and then all of a sudden the song, why does My Heart feel so bad? Became a hit in Germany. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> based on the video. And I couldn't believe it. Like, it, it was getting played like on all the pop music radio stations. The video was getting played constantly. And I thought this record was gonna be a failure. And all of a sudden it was selling, you know, the single of why does my heart feel so bad was selling hundreds of thousands of copies. So that was the sort of the first sign that I had that play was gonna be successful. So how about will we listen to why does my heart feel so bad? Let's

Lindsay (00:31:46):

Do it.

Speaker 3 (00:32:09):

The,

Moby (00:33:27):

So now you want to, should we fast forward six years?

Lindsay (00:33:30):

Yeah. Let's go another six years. Let's go to 2005.

Moby (00:33:37):

Okay. Uhoh, this is when things go start to go bad. Okay. So 2005, as the, the vegan adventure continues at this point, things had gone both terribly right and terribly wrong. Okay. You know what I mean by terribly right? Was I was touring constantly and I had just to my great shame, bought this crazy apartment on Central Park West. Like I was becoming the worst alcoholic drug addicted rock star cliche. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, uh, on tour I had an assistant whose only job was throwing parties like crazy, just terrible. Like really, like in hindsight, like really kind of gross cliched touring musician stuff. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I was drinking every night doing drugs whenever I could get my hands on them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, uh, just horrible. The one thing that was never, ever in question was veganism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It's the only thing I was unwilling to compromise. I could compromise my ethics. I could compromise my physical health. I could compromise my spirituality, my friendships, my relationships, family, everything. The one thing I would never in a million years compromise was veganism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So even when I was out doing drugs that I found behind public toilets and drinking 20 drinks a night, it never dawned on me to eat meat dairy.

Lindsay (00:35:03):

Yeah. That's amazing. Um, it's the one thing that was always the kind of like grounding

Moby (00:35:08):

Yeah.

Lindsay (00:35:08):

Force.

Moby (00:35:10):

And I guess the subtext of it, or not even subtext, the obvious part was I was perfectly okay hurting myself, but I would never be involved in anything that would hurt an animal.

Lindsay (00:35:19):

Why do you think that is?

Moby (00:35:21):

I don't know. Or hurting me is like, I'm like, I know what I'm in for. And also it's not that bad. Whereas like, contributing to the suffering or death of an innocent being seems like so pro profoundly wrong to

Lindsay (00:35:36):

Me. Yeah. I feel, feel like there's something about the innocence factor Yeah. Of animals and the, and the innocent and vulnerable aspect, you know?

Moby (00:35:45):

Yeah. Broadly speaking, I completely agree. The idea of contributing to the suffering of an innocent being just seems like there's no gray area there. It's just, it's wrong. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> for, for me Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Maybe other people have figured have a different perspective on it, but it's also why, one of the reasons why I have a very hard time understanding how people knowingly contribute to the suffering and death of animals. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. 'cause like, who's okay with contributing to the suffering and death of an innocent being. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because that's, you can't make meat and dairy without contributing to the suffering and death of an innocent being. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Lindsay (00:36:20):

Paying for it. Yeah.

Moby (00:36:21):

Yeah. So it's, it's very, it's just, I I I understand for a lot of people it just involves a sort of ethical blindness. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, they just, the same way I did before I became a vegan. Like you just, you, they, you look away and you,

Lindsay (00:36:33):

Or you dis dis dissociate the fact that your food came from a being that has feelings and didn't wanna suffer. Yeah.

Moby (00:36:41):

So, so 2005, I'm bottoming out as an alcoholic and a drug addict, my career was failing in some places, like in the United States, it really was not doing well. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But in Europe, I had my biggest ever single, which

Lindsay (00:36:54):

Was

Moby (00:36:55):

Called Lift Me Up. Ooh.

Moby (00:36:57):

And it was like, I had had successful records before this, but I'd never experienced this. This was rockstar hit single territory where like, playing at Versailles in Paris. Well, a hundred thousand people scream the words to the song. It's crazy. Like, and it was so interesting because yeah, I'd had hit songs and hit records and stuff, but this just was, this was different. And it was also so interesting 'cause it wasn't happening in the English speaking world. Right. So now if I'm on tour and I, or on the rare occasion I'll play a live show. If I play Lift Me Up in the United States, that's when people check their phones. Mm-Hmm. If you play Lift Me Up in Anywhere in Europe, that's the biggest song of the night.

Lindsay (00:37:39):

Yeah. That's so weird how the different regions have their own hits. 'cause I always assume that like, if something is a big hit in America, that that is global, but it's just not. It's

Moby (00:37:50):

So weird. Well, I remember one time sort of to that end, I was playing a festival in Belgium and Dave Matthews band were on the bill. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> massive. And this was when they were huge, massive, like in the United States states, massive. And they were like playing at like 1130 in the morning and I was one of the headliners. And I remember talking to them and they were like, yeah, this is so funny. 'cause like if I had gone in the States at that point, I would've maybe bought a ticket to see them and you know, or like I would've been playing at a, a little bar while they played at a sports stadium. Yeah. And it was just so funny that like in Europe, no one knew who they were

Lindsay (00:38:24):

So bizarre. Yeah. I guess I never think of it. That's probably just like me being a selfish egotistical American, but it never occurs to me. But I guess probably most countries just assume or don't care, you know?

Moby (00:38:36):

And, and also a lot of American music, especially like country music. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> doesn't leave the United States. Right. You know, 'cause it makes sense here, but it probably doesn't make the same way. Like a lot of German hip hop wouldn't necessarily make sense in the United States. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So, yeah.

Lindsay (00:38:50):

That's really interesting. So

Moby (00:38:51):

2005. And so my, because I was touring constantly and I was a super indulgent, cliched touring musician. I did something I'd never done before. What? I had a chef on tour with me.

Lindsay (00:39:05):

That's so fancy. That's like the fanciest thing ever. Like on the tour bus? No. But like, would fly from place to place. No,

Moby (00:39:11):

They, we had, we had, I mean, again, the environmental aspect of this is so gross, but we had multiple buses and trucks and things like cliched standard over the top touring. And so I had a chef, and here's the only thing I got right, is I had the, I wanted because I knew that I was poisoning myself with liquor and drugs and treating myself terribly. So the chef only made incredibly healthy food. That's awesome. So almost every night on tour I had brown rice, broccoli, Tempe, and sesame seed.

Lindsay (00:39:43):

Wow. This chef really was living the life making like the most I know. Simple <laugh>.

Moby (00:39:48):

But that was, I, I don't know how I, 'cause like, I was so indulgent, but I was like, you know what? I need to take care of myself while I'm killing myself and poisoning myself. And so yeah. Almost every night I would have this like, really nice vegan borderline macrobiotic meal before doing whatever drugs I could find. And drinking 20 drinks a night, your

Lindsay (00:40:09):

Will to live always impresses me so much that you always

Moby (00:40:13):

Wanna like, well I just have cockroach, DNA stay

Lindsay (00:40:15):

<laugh> that you wanna always stay healthy and make these amazing choices for yourself. And even when, like, obviously you must've been feeling pretty good about yourself when you are doing these massive tours. But like, also when you're in the, the kind of the, in the darkness of addiction, I can imagine that would also take its own mental toll on your mental health. But then while you also are like having this amazing success and taking such good care of yourself at the same time, it's all this kind of strange, like, they, they contradictions, I guess

Moby (00:40:44):

Everything was a contradiction. Yeah. You know, and that's the nature of addiction and insanity. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is like, I, it all made sense to me to like poison myself after 10:00 PM but eat broccoli and like, I wouldn't buy broccoli if it wasn't organic. Yeah. Like, I'd go to the, the supermarket and if they didn't have organic broccoli, I'd be like, well, I'm not gonna buy conventional broccoli, but I will do $300 of cocaine that I buy from a strange guy in a subway station. Yeah. Made perfect sense to me at the time. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:41:16):

Well that's what I guess what addiction does to your brain, but it's also beautiful or at least interesting that even when you were kind of like giving up so much of yourself to, to this addiction that you were also so, so careful about being so healthy. It's just so funny to me. <laugh>

Moby (00:41:33):

None. It, it luckily though, I think by being a sort of macrobiotic vegan that year and during the, the depths of my addiction, I think it actually is the reason I can string sentences together now. Barely. Yeah. But you do. Okay. Um, so that's 2005. Should we listen to part of Lift Me Up? Yeah. Let's listen to

Lindsay (00:41:50):

A little bit.

Moby (00:41:50):

So people outside the United States would be like, oh, I remember this song. I love it. And people in the United States will be, well, what's this? Yeah.

Song Vocals (00:42:11):

Lift, lift Making us, making us so strung and cold and cold feeling so, so has ruined us now you Okay.

Moby (00:42:55):

So Linds, in our journey, we have arrived at 2011, A

Lindsay (00:43:01):

Wonderful year.

Moby (00:43:02):

A weird year. Weird. It was great. Obama was president.

Lindsay (00:43:06):

Yeah. It was, things were, things were feeling pretty good in this

Moby (00:43:09):

Time. Think. Yeah. It felt like, again, some of the problems of history, I was like, oh, we're not gonna make those same mistakes of like Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and like, and also I think that, um, at this point, same-sex marriage had become legal in the United States.

Lindsay (00:43:20):

I was living, I was living in New York and it was, everything felt so good. And so like, oh my God, we are on the right track.

Moby (00:43:26):

<laugh> it definitely seemed like, yeah. Again, like we'd learned from our mistakes. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, you know, we were gonna move forward culturally, spiritually, politically, and getting over

Lindsay (00:43:38):

Those bush years, which were so bad then we didn't even get

Moby (00:43:41):

Compared how bad it could get compared to Trump. It's like, Bush years were like a walk in the park. Yeah, exactly. So, okay, so 2011 and I had gotten sober and I moved to Los Angeles Mm. For so many weird reasons. One, so I could go hiking in the wintertime, but also because New York was a, for me, it was like, and you lived in New York, it's like, it's a late night degenerate city. Like everything. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> New York is wonderful. I love it. It's beautiful. It's dynamic and culturally fantastic, but it is degenerate. Oh yes. Everybody drinks, everyone does drugs. Ev I mean, I'm sure someone's listening right now and they're like, I don't drink and do drugs and I live in New York. It's like, well, you're the exception. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:44:21):

There, it's a, it's a party town. Yeah. And it's a place where you just wanna like go out and spend money and eat food and see people and drink all night long. Yeah. Until, you know, the bars don't close till four. And then there's bars that are open 24 hours.

Moby (00:44:36):

It's crazy. And that's that. Yeah. So that in New York, when I got sober in New York, I found it really hard to be in that environment. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> especially. 'cause every street corner in New York was a place where I had either been drunk or bought drugs or b or thrown up or passed out. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so I, I had to get away from New York and I moved to LA so I could look at sunshine and look at trees. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and smell sage and lavender and so gentle. And the, the song that I finished in 2011, I actually started writing it in New York, uh, was perfect life. Mm. And

Lindsay (00:45:11):

I love the song.

Moby (00:45:12):

It's one of my rare, just over the top happy songs. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Except the lyrics are about drug addiction. Wow. So it's a little bit Wow. It's a little bit of a confusing song. So like, it sounds so joyful, but the lyrics are pretty dark. And if you, if you actually listen to them, they're pr they're like bottoming out drug addict lyrics.

Lindsay (00:45:32):

I really love when you do that. <laugh> it reminds me of like, when we talked about South Side and how South Side is just kind of like, fun, exciting, you know, you just wanna sing along. But it's

Moby (00:45:45):

Actually about post-apocalyptic a a meaningless existence after a terrible apocalyptic.

Lindsay (00:45:50):

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. You're very good at, um, contradiction it would seem Yeah. In so many ways. So, and but also you, this recording, are you gonna play the one with Wayne Coyne? Sure. And Wayne Coyne is

Moby (00:46:00):

From the Flaming Lips. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:46:02):

His name is really funny to say. Wayne Coyne. Wayne Coyne. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It, it's funny. Yeah. It's very cool that he did that with you. And I love this song so much. It's so fun.

Moby (00:46:12):

Um, so vegan wise, 2011 at this point, let me figure this out. I, so at that point, I've been vegan 28 years, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. My, my math is not good, but neither

Lindsay (00:46:20):

Is mine. So I'm gonna say yes. Wait,

Moby (00:46:22):

87 to 2011. That's 24 years.

Lindsay (00:46:25):

Whoa. 24. 24

Moby (00:46:27):

<laugh>. So I, so I've been vegan at this point for 24 years. And at this point, veganism has started to become a big thing. Like, like I remember going to Cafe Gratitude once and seeing Beyonce and Jay-Z there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, you know, hearing about all these fancy celebrities being vegan. And I remember thinking to myself like, wow, in 1987 there was one, maybe two vegan restaurants in the world. And now in Los Angeles, there's like 50 of 'em. And also people, this is around the time the vegans figured out that you could really easily make vegan junk food.

Lindsay (00:47:03):

Oh

Moby (00:47:03):

Yeah. I know. This is your sweet spot. So th this was around the first time I went to Mies. Oh, you love dummies. I love dooms. It's maybe it's a little too comforty indulgent for me, but I love

Lindsay (00:47:17):

It.

Moby (00:47:17):

But this was, you know, it was, 'cause up until this point, veganism was synonymous with health food. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And someone Sunday more realized, oh, we can fry vegan food just as well as we can fry other food and

Lindsay (00:47:31):

Cover it in sauce. Any kind of sauce.

Moby (00:47:33):

It, and they were, it repenting vegan cheese and vegan ranch dressing and vegan donuts and vegan, like, it was almost like people were like racing to the bottom of vegan junk food. And, and that's

Lindsay (00:47:45):

Where I found them.

Moby (00:47:45):

And it, you know what? God bless because it made veganism acceptable to so many people who otherwise were not going to be eating brown rice and broccoli. Mm-Hmm.

Lindsay (00:47:55):

<affirmative> because I love the animals. I just don't love to take care of my body in that way. <laugh>. Yeah. I, when I, in 2011, when I lived in New York, I lived in Harlem and right across the street from me, there was a vegan soul food restaurant. And I went there just about every single day. It was incredible. It was so good. Everything was just like fried and like vegan mac and cheese and oh God, it was so

Moby (00:48:16):

Good. So that's 2011. So sober living in Los Angeles and going out to restaurants constantly. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, whether it was Sage or Real Food Daily, I don't even remember all the restaurants that around that were around then, that might not be around now, but it was just a really delightful time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> with Obama president and the veganism spreading like crazy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Lindsay (00:48:41):

Well, I know perfect life is about addiction, but it also feels really happy to sing it. Yeah. So maybe we'll play it and celebrate the 2011 vegan times. Yeah.

Moby (00:48:49):

Maybe just pretend the lyrics are not about addiction. A

Lindsay (00:48:51):

Real perfect life.

Perfect Life vocals (00:48:56):

You open up when you have me, your hands slip slipping away with the world at your command. You sing me sleep and then you hit me away. It's a perfect life. A perfect life. I only want be when y'all by my side. Oh, I believe now. I love you. Till I die, you'll,

Moby (00:50:20):

Okay. So we're, we're getting to the end of my 36 year vegan journey. Okay. Thank you. Here we go. For thank Lindsay, thank you for, um, escorting me on this, this 36 year musical al and Oral <laugh> trip down vegan memory lane. It's been

Lindsay (00:50:38):

A real journey. Yeah. It's like I was there almost

Moby (00:50:40):

<laugh>. So we're, we've entered a weird period now.

Lindsay (00:50:45):

2017

Moby (00:50:48):

Uhoh both good and bad.

Lindsay (00:50:50):

Why bad

Moby (00:50:52):

'cause Trump, well,

Lindsay (00:50:53):

I know why <laugh> Trump

Moby (00:50:54):

Had, Trump was president and what

Lindsay (00:50:56):

A dark, dark time.

Moby (00:50:59):

And you remember we were recently reminiscing about like 93 mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and how we thought the internet was gonna be a force for good and how Russia was joining the West and was gonna be our ally. And how politics were becoming more evolved and racism and homophobia were things of the past. And all of a sudden it's 2017 and like Trump is President Bolsonaro ISS president. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, um, Erdogan, Victor Orban, Putin, Duterte, all these dictators. All these tyrants, like the world just

Lindsay (00:51:33):

Violent dictators.

Moby (00:51:34):

And, and Facebook was being, was just this source of egregious misinformation. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, leading to like, the massacre of the Rohingya. Like just time, like, just all this information being put out there that was like skew like skewing elections towards right wing dictator. So culturally it was a really bad time. It

Lindsay (00:51:57):

Was bad. It was bad. I remember having nightmares about what Trump would do Yeah. If the pp tapes ever came out, you know,

Moby (00:52:04):

It was so, it was such a scary time and it was such a dark time. But in my little bubble, in our little bubble, I was living in Los Angeles, the sun was shining and Little Pine had opened. Yeah.

Moby (00:52:17):

And Little Pine had a, the first few months were a struggle, but in 2017, which let me think, that would be my 30 years <laugh>. So I've been, so 2017 is my 30 year vegan anniversary. Crazy. So I've been vegan for 30 years and Little Pine was thriving and we were getting all sorts of interesting people showing up there like that one day when like Cory Booker and Ellen DeGeneres were having dinner at two separate tables. Or like Solomon Rushdi and Miley Cyrus have having dinner at different tables, or David Fincher and Leo and, uh, Joaquin all having dinner at different tables. Like it really felt like this, like the world is collapsing, the countries are being overrun by right wing dictators, just spewing hate and misinformation. But in my little, Little Pine microcosm, it felt kind of special. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:53:08):

I loved Little Pine. It was so beautiful. The food was the best vegan food I've ever had. I loved that place. It did feel magical. Like it was this little magical oasis in the middle of Silver Lake

Moby (00:53:20):

And it was stressful. It was

Lindsay (00:53:21):

Stressful for you, but it was really great for everyone else. <laugh>

Moby (00:53:24):

<laugh>. So that's what's going on in 2017. And then the, the record I'd put out that year was called Everything was Beautiful and Nothing Hurt. It's a quote from a Kurt Vonnegut book. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I'm gonna pick a song from that that we could listen to. Part of that almost no one knows, but I it's self-involved. Selfishly, it's one of the favorite songs of mine that I've ever released.

Lindsay (00:53:48):

And it's called The Ceremony of Innocence, which,

Moby (00:53:53):

And which is a, a line from the Ys poem. The second coming. 'cause I had read this article that after Trump was installed as president Google searches and downloads for this poem, the second coming skyrocket because it's about the apocalypse. It almost feels like it's, it foretells trump crazy. If you ever read the second coming. Do

Lindsay (00:54:14):

You want me to look it up? Do you want me to read it?

Moby (00:54:15):

Yeah. Do you wanna read it? Yeah,

Lindsay (00:54:16):

Sure.

Moby (00:54:17):

Okay. And it, you'll, as you read it, you'll see like so many titles come from this poem, including this one of ceremony of innocence. When you read it, it's just, it's, there's a reason why all of a sudden after Trump was elected, everyone was Google searching the second coming. Okay.

Lindsay (00:54:33):

It's not that long. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna read it. Yeah.

Moby (00:54:35):

It's a short poem, but it's, it's arguably one of the most powerful, visually impactful apocalypse poems ever written.

Lindsay (00:54:41):

Okay. I'm gonna read it William, but your but

Moby (00:54:44):

Your <laugh> William, but yeah, go to a William, but-yer Yates

Lindsay (00:54:49):

<laugh>, William Butler Yates. Okay.

Lindsay (reading Yeats) (00:54:52):

Turning and turning in the widening gyyer, the falcon cannot hear the falconer things fall apart. The center cannot hold. Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world. The blood dim tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned, the best lack all conviction. While the worst are full of passionate intensity, surely some revelation is at hand.

Lindsay (reading Yeats) (00:55:20):

Surely the second coming is at hand. The second coming hardly are those words out. When a vast image of Spiritus Mundi troubles my sight somewhere in the sands of the desert, a shape with lion body and the head of a man, a gaze blank. And pless, as the sun is moving its slow thighs, while all about it, real shadows of the indignant desert birds, the darkness drops again. But I know now that 20 centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle. And what rough beast, its hour come round at last slouches toward Bethlehem to be born Holy Mother of Mary.

Lindsay (00:56:05):

Yeah. That's pretty intense.

Moby (00:56:07):

So that's where my title ceremony of Innocent comes from. I also have a song called Mere Anarchy and all the other titles in that. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:56:15):

There's a lot of gold in there. Yeah. That's one rich poem.

Moby (00:56:18):

Everybody has borrowed something from that. Yeah. Um, I mean, things fall apart, uh, slouching towards Bethlehem. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So should we listen to, uh, Ceremony of Innocence? Let's do it. Okay. But

Lindsay (00:56:31):

You're <laugh>

Moby (00:56:32):

<laugh>.

Lindsay (00:56:34):

Okay.

Moby (00:57:49):

We're here, we're now it's 2023. Right.

Lindsay (00:57:52):

Technically for a little bit more. It's gonna be 2023.

Moby (00:57:55):

So, so we've reached the end of this 36 year vegan journey

Lindsay (00:58:02):

And let's contextualize this time period. I know that it's gonna be a bright one for you. I, because we hang out a lot and do this podcast together and what could be better <laugh>

Moby (00:58:12):

And I get to see bagel every day. Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay (00:58:15):

<laugh>. So, you know, no downsides.

Moby (00:58:19):

Yeah. So 2023, it's very hard to talk about 2023 without referencing the pandemic. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> to state the obvious and the pandemic affected everybody on the planet in myriad different ways. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. One of the weird ways I feel like I'm, I'm being kind of a narcissist in saying that, but one of the ways it affected me, and I don't mean this in a good or bad way, in fact I think I mean it in a good way, which I'm very hesitant to say, because normally you don't talk about pandemics and, uh, how it's affected you in a good way. But when the pandemic happened, I, like many people had to start cooking again. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. You know, before the pandemic I was going to Little Pine, I was going to Crossroads. I was going to all the vegan restaurants in Los Angeles. And when the pandemic happened, Little Pine shut down. 'cause every restaurant shut down. And I was like, I have to start cooking again. And something very delightful happened. So you moved into the guest house

Lindsay (00:59:16):

For what, like a month, two months,

Moby (00:59:18):

Maybe? Let's say a couple months. Yeah. And you adopted Bagel at that time. Uhhuh. So the pandemic was raging. It was terrifying. But you and Bagel were living in the guest house and I started making soup again.

Lindsay (00:59:31):

Yeah.

Moby (00:59:32):

And I was making tons of soup, more soup than I could eat. So on a almost daily basis, I would bring you in bagel. Well, you, because bagel couldn't eat the soup. 'cause it had garlic in it. Yeah. But I'd bring, so like, it was this really kind of sweet time where I was making soup and I hadn't made soup in forever. Like so much soup in decades. And so I was reacquainted with cooking, and then I started baking bread again. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so, I have to say, as awful as the pandemic was as destructive and terrifying and life-threatening as the pandemic was, it was really nice hanging out with you and bagel Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Lindsay (01:00:07):

From afar we would stand like Yeah. 20 feet apart

Moby (01:00:10):

<laugh>. And, but also the, the, the simple humble act of having more time and spending it baking bread. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and making soup and making sorbet and learning how to make all this like, really healthy, simple food again. Yeah. So that has sort of stuck with me where like, I, I still, like, I go to restaurants, but I don't feel like eating as indulgent as I was before the pandemic. 'cause Little Pine was great, but it was indulgent. Oh

Lindsay (01:00:41):

Yeah. But I loved that. And boy do I still love

Moby (01:00:44):

It. I mean, I did as well, but there was always that guilt. Like I'd eat the chocolate chip cookies or the banana cream pie or the cinnamon rolls. And I was like, this is amazing. This is so delicious. But oh boy, it's, uh, it's not the healthiest thing.

Lindsay (01:01:00):

I think that's part of my problem is I have just no guilt about it. I'm like, oh, that was awesome. <laugh>.

Moby (01:01:04):

Okay.

Lindsay (01:01:05):

So that's where we differ. Maybe one day I'll have guilt about

Moby (01:01:07):

It. Yeah. I always, and I love, I I, I just always, for me, I, I felt kind of guilty, but I loved, like people would come in to Little Pine and just get so excited by this super indulgent food. So I loved that it was representing veganism. Well, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But me personally, I knew it wasn't doing me any favors. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:01:26):

Especially if you're there all the time. Like, you were there multiple times a week. Yep. It starts to kind of, it starts to add up. Yeah. Not just a treat.

Moby (01:01:33):

Although I say like,

Lindsay (01:01:34):

It becomes a lifestyle.

Moby (01:01:35):

The vegan chocolate chip cookies at Little Pine with the vegan vanilla ice cream that we made with the Paco Jet. Like, oh,

Lindsay (01:01:41):

That was, yeah. That was amazing. Remember when you came on talk show the game show that we did when I was producing that TV show and you gave the judges cookies from Little Pine

Moby (01:01:50):

To bribe them. To bribe them. Yeah. Intentionally. And

Lindsay (01:01:52):

They loved them so much. Yeah. They couldn't believe how good they were. That's how everyone felt about them. They were crazy delicious. Yeah. But also everything there was, so those cinnamon rolls, I still think about those cinnamon rolls. They

Moby (01:02:02):

Were, they were pretty special. They were really

Lindsay (01:02:04):

Good.

Moby (01:02:04):

But now it's 2023. And, um, tomorrow I'm gonna go to celebrate my vegan anniversary. I'm gonna make some black bean, pinto bean soup with

Lindsay (01:02:14):

Cool <laugh>. Sounds really exciting. Nothing

Moby (01:02:18):

Fried. I'm sorry. And I might even bake some bread. Wow. I what a So now I feel like I've disappointed you. Like we're,

Lindsay (01:02:26):

No, I'm not, I'm just making fun because it's so very virtuous. Um, virtuous and wholesome.

Moby (01:02:31):

I might enjoy some sorbet, which is basically just berries and red grapes and some water in a blender. Yum.

Lindsay (01:02:39):

<laugh>. No, I've had it before. It actually is quite delicious.

Moby (01:02:42):

Okay. Because I'm so good at apologizing for everything. I feel like I need to apologize for this new boring, virtuous phase of my veganism. But I love it.

Lindsay (01:02:50):

No, I know. It makes you so, so happy. Yeah, I know. It, it thrills you to know that you're having this like unbelievably nutritious diet with lots of antioxidants and nutrients that you need to be a healthy boy.

Moby (01:03:04):

And the health. It, it's in a weird way, the health is not the goal. It's more that I find healthy food to be really interesting.

Lindsay (01:03:13):

I also think, I feel like you look at it like this challenge. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Like, how can I have the healthiest diet anyone has ever had? And you, like, you research it, you've become kind of your own version of like scientists about it. Every time I'm sick you're like, okay, this is what's going on with you. Here's the, here's these 10 things you should be eating or including in your diet.

Moby (01:03:35):

And your immediate question is like, but what about ranch dressing? Exactly.

Lindsay (01:03:38):

Where does ranch dressing fall on the list? <laugh>.

Moby (01:03:41):

So when I think of healthy food, when I think of black beans or tempeh or walnuts or ginger or red charred, obviously I appreciate that there're health benefits to that. But to me it's the fascinating molecular aspect of it. That these things are cheap and abundant for the most part. They don't really quite require much effort to grow. Like they're really easy, like growing red charred, super easy. Oh yeah.

Lindsay (01:04:10):

But

Moby (01:04:10):

They're, they're magical. And to me it, it's, there's the spiritual component of it. Like what does it say about the underlying nature of the universe? Then when left that when left to its own devices, it creates magic, healthy food. It's

Lindsay (01:04:25):

Pretty cool.

Moby (01:04:25):

Like, I just think that's So there's something really sublime and special about that.

Lindsay (01:04:31):

I think so too. And I, but but you, you really, it really tickles a part of your brain so intensely. Yeah. That I feel like is very unique, but also really fun to see and inspiring. Maybe even it's

Moby (01:04:43):

Because it's like if I, nothing against junk food, but like, we had this conversation the other day with our friends, Lindsay and Julie. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you guys were talking about french fries. Ooh. And I confused you guys maybe even made you a little mad that I said, I don't really like french fries.

Lindsay (01:04:58):

Yeah. Honestly, that makes me not trust you anymore. <laugh>.

Moby (01:05:01):

<laugh>, I don't dislike them. But the reason I don't like them that much is I think they're kind of dull.

Lindsay (01:05:06):

But they're salty. And sometimes they put herbs on top and herbs are like, and they're oily, delicious, crunchy.

Moby (01:05:12):

But it's the same reason I don't like sugary desserts. Ugh. I know, I know. I'm, you're mad at me and I don't, I'm, I apologize.

Lindsay (01:05:20):

Oh God. I just don't, it doesn't make, that's like somebody saying like, like, um, the, the sound of a harp is grading on my ears. Like

Moby (01:05:29):

Yeah. Or someone saying like, they don't like chocolate. Like, I'm like, I don't understand. Or someone

Lindsay (01:05:32):

Saying they don't like french fries, which to me is Eno. Like, that's how crazy it is

Moby (01:05:35):

To me. But the thing is, it's not that I dislike them, I just think they're kind of dull. And I know that because there's no, there's no complexity to them. Like when I, and I'm not, I'm not even criticizing french fries. I'm not saying, oh, they're bad for you or whatever. I'm saying they're just simple and as opposed to

Lindsay (01:05:54):

Like, but you think a bean, you like a,

Moby (01:05:55):

A black bean to me is like worthy. Like you should tear down every cathedral and just worship a black bean. Like a black bean.

Lindsay (01:06:03):

I don't, I don't know <laugh>.

Moby (01:06:05):

'cause it, it costs nothing to grow. It pulls carbon out of the atmosphere. It's a, it's a carbon sequestration machine and the end result is something filled with fiber, protein, antho, sign, and iron. All these magical things that it pulls out of the soil <laugh> while replen, while at the same time replenishing the soil. Like, to me, that's just so fascinating. And you get to eat it and it's good for you. So that's, it's the, it's the complexity of that on, on a ontological molecular level that I find so remarkable. And it actually reinforces my veganism because I'm like, wow, I get to like eat this food that nature produces that is, as far as I can understand it, it's just like magic.

Lindsay (01:06:50):

I'll never forget you saying, I think we should tear down every cathedral. Worship. Worship. Replace them. Worship, worship. Be <laugh>.

Moby (01:06:57):

Yeah. I say, I say stuff

Lindsay (01:06:59):

<laugh> <laugh>. Well, on that note, I wonder,

Moby (01:07:02):

And what's a cathedral? I mean, like, there's even, there's a, there's a cathedrals are okay, they're

Lindsay (01:07:06):

Architectural wonder. Some of them. Most of them.

Moby (01:07:08):

Sure. But they're dead. They're, they're stone buildings. Great. Nice. Even even our old pal, Jesus from the Middle East <laugh>, he basically like when, when he was at one point going into Jerusalem, his followers said, look at all these temples. And he said he's basically, yeah, they're dead. They're buildings. They're not, they're not alive.

Lindsay (01:07:28):

They're not beans.

Moby (01:07:29):

Yeah. <laugh>. Whereas like a bean is a product of whatever divinity there is. Like it's alive and it's complicated and magical and does a trillion different things. Okay.

Lindsay (01:07:41):

You heard it here first. People

Moby (01:07:42):

Yeah. Tear down the cathedrals and worship beams. In other words, I am a ridiculous human being. Makes perfect sense to me. But I also understand why I don't have friends. <laugh>. Except for you and bagel, because you're polite.

Lindsay (01:07:55):

<laugh>. Well also, you know, I, I, I think I am catching a whiff of the logic. Um, so do you wanna talk about a song? Oh,

Moby (01:08:05):

Sure. So it will end with an unreleased song. Just something I'm working on. What is it? I don't know what it's gonna be called. <laugh>. Uh,

Lindsay (01:08:11):

What if it's called, um, worship Beans?

Moby (01:08:14):

I don't know if it should be, because at some point I would like people to actually listen to <laugh>. And if you could release a song called Worship Beans, I don't know who would make an effort to.

Lindsay (01:08:23):

I feel like Ariana Grande had a song called God As a Woman. I feel like you could have a song called God as a being. <laugh>

Moby (01:08:30):

<laugh>. Even though that's true. I don't know if I wanna necessarily compete with Ariana Grande in the Gender versus being Divine category.

Lindsay (01:08:40):

King Princess had a song called Pussy is God. I feel like You should have, you could have a song called Bean Is God.

Moby (01:08:45):

Okay, maybe I could go with that. Yeah, that's, I'm a little more comfortable with that. So, so the

Lindsay (01:08:49):

Song is called Bean is God.

Moby (01:08:51):

It's, I don't know if it's gonna be, I don't know if, I don't know if this is being, this is gonna be called being his God. Um, it has, so my friend Apollo Jane is singing

Lindsay (01:09:00):

Love Apollo Jane.

Moby (01:09:01):

And we recorded these vocals a while ago. And just recently I was playing around, I found these old vocals that we had recorded and I started adding different chords to them. And then I realized the song was half as fast as a sort of breakbeat almost jungle song. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Like, the song was like 72 beats per minute. And I thought to myself, oh, interesting. What if I have these quiet pretty vocals, these slow chords, but then create these really frenetic, breakbeat, jungle inspired drums. Contradiction

Lindsay (01:09:37):

Really works for

Moby (01:09:37):

You. And I find it to be such a lovely combination. So I'll play this. It doesn't have a name. Um, she, the, the, uh, we were basically in the studio and I was like, well, 'cause I'm an old raver. I was like, what if you just say like, you know, like, um, I feel love Classic disco rave, vocal line. But that title has been taken by Donna Summer has, so I gotta think of something else.

Lindsay (01:10:00):

I feel being,

Moby (01:10:02):

So in any case, so the working title I feel being <laugh>, um, bean is God. God is a Bean Bean. Bean Bean. Yeah. So should we play that and then do, are we drawing my 36 year vegan odyssey to a close? Yeah.

Lindsay (01:10:19):

And what I wonder is, should we just play us out with this song and listen to the whole thing? You want to?

Moby (01:10:23):

Yeah, let's do it. Should we say, should we say thank you everybody?

Lindsay (01:10:25):

Let's just say a quick thank you and goodbye. First of all, I wanna thank Mike Formanski, who's here, who's recording this, um, video for this, uh, this podcast vid. And I also wanna say thank you to Jonathan Nesvadba, who is editing the audio for this. And Mike will also be editing the video. And I wanna say thank you to Human Content for, for getting this podcast out into your cute, tiny little ear holes. And now let's play the song, right?

Moby (01:10:52):

The song that doesn't have a name that you're just calling God as a beam. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Okay. And I don't wanna get in trouble by saying God as a beam. Like I don't necessarily,

Lindsay (01:11:00):

It's just a title we're through. It's we're work shopping. Yeah.

Moby (01:11:03):

Working title God is a <laugh>, <laugh>. And anything else vegan wise, we wanna go over with, because this has been the month of, you know, with Gene Baur, with this vegan anniversary. Uh,

Lindsay (01:11:17):

I'll say this, I think it's a beautiful thing to celebrate because one of the easiest things you can do to save our planet and to save a gazillion animals and your lifetime and yourself is to stop eating meat and dairy. It's so easy and it's so available. Like, if you look back to your stories about 1987 or even 1993, like, we're in a world where vegan food is so unbelievably accessible. Even in the tiny town in Texas where my parents lived, there's a massive aisle of vegan food in the middle of nowhere, Texas. So I know for a fact that vegan food is available, and it's a beautiful thing to do for everything I mentioned. And it's a great reminder.

Moby (01:12:02):

Thank you. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. So now we'll play the Beans Song, beans song that that will eventually probably not be called The Beans Song. Beans, beans, beans, beans, beans, beans, <laugh>. Okay. Thank you everybody.

Lindsay (01:12:12):

Bye.