Moby (00:00:06):

Hi, and welcome to another episode of Moby Pod. Hello, Lindsay.

Lindsay (00:00:10):

Hello, Moby.

Moby (00:00:10):

And hello, Bagel.

Bagel (00:00:12):

Hello, Moby.

Moby (00:00:13):

<laugh> <laugh> Bagel, Your voice changed. It got so much deeper.

Lindsay (00:00:16):

Is that's, well, she's a woman now. Is this,

Moby (00:00:18):

'cause it's winter. It's

Lindsay (00:00:19):

'cause it's winter. And now she's, she has to work extra hard to stay warm.

Moby (00:00:22):

So we had originally planned for this episode to be our year anniversary Moby Pod episode, but then something happened. We asked people to send in questions and comments and suggestions. And we got so many good ones that we wanted to leave a little more time for more people to send in well people you to send in questions and comments and thoughts and suggestions that we can go through for our year anniversary episode. Also, we've received a ton of really great comments and questions and suggestions, and we want to give ourselves time to go through it and also give you guys time to send in more comments, questions, and suggestions. I'm also wondering how many times I can say comments, questions, and suggestions in the course of this intro. So we will be doing our Moby Pod year anniversary for the next episode, but this one is really special 'cause we get to talk to one of my favorite young animal rights, progressive vegan activists. Ashley Jackson.

Lindsay (00:01:24):

Ashley Jackson when she came in, neither of us had met her properly before, really spent any time with her. I, I knew

Moby (00:01:31):

About her just because her dad with the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

Lindsay (00:01:34):

Yes. And she's so young, but she's already so celebrated in the vegan animal rights community. So we were so excited to meet with her. She's obviously an activist, but she's also an actress. She's a screenwriter, she's a producer. She's currently a student doing all of the stuff while she's in school. So she's a very impressive person. But she's also been in some Netflix film. She was in Beats, she was in Blast Beat and she's worked with PETA. She does a lot of work with them on making vegan food available, working in food justice. She's just a very inspiring person and so smart, so kind. And we had such a great time talking to her.

Moby (00:02:15):

Yeah. On one hand she's so smart and principled and amazing. It sort of gives me a little bit of hope for our species.

Lindsay (00:02:23):

Absolutely.

Moby (00:02:23):

Because I mean, I'm old and rotten and I've never been as sort of smart and self-possessed as she is.

Lindsay (00:02:31):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. No, I, when I was 21, I was just the dumbest trash pile.

Moby (00:02:36):

I guarantee. I was dumber <laugh> because I was probably dumber and entitled and obnoxious. So I was like, my, my stupidity was like compounded by the fact that I was also smug <laugh>. And as you know, like there's nothing worse than like a smug 21-year-old white idiot. And that was me <laugh>. So in any case, just a reminder, please send through more questions, comments, and suggestions for our one year Moby Pod anniversary, which will be next week. And also a little spoiler alert for the Moby Pod one year anniversary. Lindsay is working on Epic poem.

Lindsay (00:03:11):

I'm working on a poem. Look, no promises if it's gonna be good or not. It's just gonna be a thing that does happen.

Moby (00:03:18):

It'll, it'll be a great epic poem Okay. To be revealed in two weeks on the next mobi pod. But now let's go talk to our new hero, Ashley Jackson. Hi Ashley.

Lindsay (00:03:37):

Hi Ashley. Hello <laugh>. I'm so happy you're here.

Ashley (00:03:40):

I am happy to be here. A little nervous that I'm happy. Really? Aww. Yeah. I've never done an in-person podcast before. Well, what

Lindsay (00:03:46):

Are fascinating outright, because it's been, we've been very much covid Oy. Yeah.

Ashley (00:03:50):

In the

Moby (00:03:51):

Mouth. Yeah. To make you more nervous. What if we just sit here and stare at

Lindsay (00:03:54):

You and just let you come up with stuff to say. Just uncomfort,

Moby (00:03:58):

Just

Lindsay (00:03:58):

Uncomfortably outta anxiety.

Moby (00:03:59):

Yeah. I'm just gonna sit here, stare at you and whatever you say, we're not gonna respond. <laugh>, no emotion, no nothing.

Ashley (00:04:05):

I have a fidget ring and I would just be going like this for the whole time if you can. Okay.

Lindsay (00:04:08):

That is the most beautiful fidget ring. I thank

Ashley (00:04:10):

You so much.

Lindsay (00:04:11):

Ever seen? There's

Moby (00:04:11):

So much I want to ask this sort of begs one of my first questions is I'm a very old person <laugh>, so I'm gonna ask a question and maybe this sort of identifies me as a quasi boomer. What's a, what's a fidget ring?

Lindsay (00:04:26):

Oh, Moby. So <laugh>.

Moby (00:04:28):

Can I, can you, can I

Ashley (00:04:30):

See? Yes, you can see it. So basically instead of me having like a fidget toy or something Yeah. That people are staring at me dealing with fidgeting things. Um, I have a ring that's like kind of low key. So it looks like it's just a fashion statement. But in reality I'm sitting there like twist, twist,

Lindsay (00:04:45):

Twisting, you know, have like the fidget toys, which are like fidt spins basically like spin. Yeah. Or you know, do whatever, pop a thing in and out. Um, but the rings are basically wearable. And you knew

Moby (00:04:55):

About these

Lindsay (00:04:55):

Wearable Yeah. I basically use my own ring as a, as like a kind of Luddite

Ashley (00:05:00):

Fidget. It makes sense

Lindsay (00:05:01):

Toy. But those spinning ones are actually kind of cool. And yours is really Thank

Ashley (00:05:05):

You. They're like my new thing because like you can't really tell unless I like tell you about it, which really works. Especially on red carpets. 'cause I get very anxious doing those. So I'm just sitting next

Lindsay (00:05:13):

And you can't tell in pictures because

Ashley (00:05:14):

It'll just look like you're just sitting have like a long beautiful hand. 100% <laugh>. So,

Moby (00:05:19):

So before we get to our long list of fun, not too unpleasant questions, <laugh>, um, I noticed you're wearing and podcasting at present is not a visual medium. Ours is not yet. You're, you're wearing a Fela shirt. Yes. So for people who are listening, Ashley's wearing a Fela shirt. Um, does, do you have any connection? And maybe it's a bad question 'cause my friend Bill t Jones is the one who sort of wrote and directed the show. Fela Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the Broadway show.

Ashley (00:05:43):

And that's where I got the shirt, so. Oh, okay. Yeah. I am a huge Fah fan in general. Um, the Broadway show was fantastic. I must've seen it. I wanna say in high school or middle school, whatever it was, I was a bit younger and I was just blown away. So I've had this shirt for a long time and I'm glad it still fits

Lindsay (00:05:59):

<laugh>. I love a person that goes to a musical and gets the merch. The merch. Yeah. That is, you are a woman after my own heart. Because it's rare that I go to a musical and I'm not like, I need that. I need the mug, I need the shirt. 'cause I, I'm a big musical theater kind of, of the me too nerd fan. I'm obsessed. Well,

Ashley (00:06:17):

You're gonna be like super, maybe you'll be excited. I don't know. But guess where I am going next week. Where, where, where I am going to go see Parade on Broadway. And I am screaming inside like I'm so excited. Maybe

Lindsay (00:06:26):

I wanna go excited 'cause we're going to New York soon too. Moby, what if you went to a musical <laugh>?

Moby (00:06:32):

So here's, but here's, here's why. There's one reason I don't go to the theater and I also don't really like movies. And I'm gonna admit in public why that is because I get claustrophobic and I'm afraid if I have to go to the bathroom. Like, what if you have to go to the bathroom in the middle of a show? Especially, you know, those Broadway theaters where they have like 50 seats All right. Next to each other.

Ashley (00:06:54):

And don't let it be the Lion King where they're walking through the aisle. Yeah. That

Lindsay (00:06:57):

Would be bad if you like knocked over a giraffe or something.

Moby (00:07:00):

So what happens if you're like, wow, I I really have to go pee and I'm in the middle of long day's journey into night and there's like, I know there's no intermission. It's gonna be three hours. Like

Lindsay (00:07:10):

This is so vulnerable what you're sharing and I applaud you for that. What if we went and I got,

Moby (00:07:16):

We got no seat

Ashley (00:07:17):

<laugh>

Lindsay (00:07:19):

Seats on the back row right by the No. Okay. I

Moby (00:07:21):

Also really like television. Okay.

Lindsay (00:07:22):

That

Moby (00:07:23):

Track. I love that You guys wanna go to theater shows? I don't know what Parade is. I isn't that the magazine that used to come in like the Sunday? This is

Ashley (00:07:30):

About, this

Lindsay (00:07:31):

Is that, so this is not, it's

Moby (00:07:32):

Also, this is not the theater version of Parade Magazine Visual.

Ashley (00:07:36):

Actually I think it's a musical. It I think it debuted in the nineties.

Lindsay (00:07:39):

Yes. This is a, it's a revival. A revival of um Oh, okay. The old Parade.

Moby (00:07:43):

So, so when are, when are you going? 'cause we don't know when this is gonna air or debuted. Well, I'll

Ashley (00:07:48):

Be going, I guess is it the end of June? Is are we still in June? I don't even know. We're

Lindsay (00:07:52):

Still, we're still in June.

Ashley (00:07:53):

We're still in June. So then I think like the 28th is the day that I'm going. And I am so soon beside myself.

Lindsay (00:07:58):

I'm so excited for you. Thank you so much. We're going soon. I'm trying to, 'cause I really wanna see Kimberly Akimbo, it won all of these awards, but there, there's a ton of stuff I wanna see. There's just so much I wanna see the corn, the shucked, <laugh>. There's a musical about corn.

Ashley (00:08:11):

There's some really crazy musicals out right now. I looked and I was just like, wow, these people really are filling the vibes so good on them. <laugh>. I

Lindsay (00:08:18):

Mean we went a long time without theater. So I really want to just like from a personal standpoint, moral standpoint, go and support hundred percent theater. But also I'm obsessed and I just, I just love it so much. So when we go, I may have to go see a

Ashley (00:08:30):

Couple. I have some plugs I'll hook you up with to get the best deals on tickets.

Lindsay (00:08:33):

Oh my God. Yes, please. I mean it's better than standing at the TKTS counter and Times Square for like two hours that tracks, which I've done. So, so

Moby (00:08:41):

I have, when we talk to people, I like to sort of start at the beginning. Okay. So where were you born?

Ashley (00:08:47):

I was born in Washington DC Okay. In a hospital that is now a condo. Nice. Whoa. Which is so odd to me.

Moby (00:08:53):

The nature of all things. Yeah. And let's walk me through like the first 10 years of your life. Where did you grow up? Just

Lindsay (00:08:58):

Like did you grow up? What was your childhood like? Where did you grow up? What was school like? That kind of thing. Okay. I

Moby (00:09:04):

Mean also, and if you, if you want anything to eat or drink, we can always press pause and I can go get something to eat. We've

Lindsay (00:09:09):

Got so many granola bars.

Ashley (00:09:11):

Oh, thank you so much. It'll blow your mind. I'm good right now, but I appreciate that <laugh>. Um, okay. Let's see. The first 10 years of my life were like <laugh>, I hate to say the best 10 years of my life. I really did enjoy them. Um, I moved out to Los Angeles and I was really young. Um, my mom wanted to raise me close to her family. So I probably, I don't even think I was a year old when I moved out here. And we spent the first few years kind of like in the Baldwin Hills area. And then she got a job in the valley. So then I became a valley girl <laugh>. And I grew up out there just going to school doing the normal things. And I had a blast that was like, elementary school was my prime to be honest. <laugh> I had a great time in elementary school. Um, yeah. And that was up till I skipped second grade. So by the time I was 10, I think that was when I was in sixth grade. You

Lindsay (00:09:54):

Skipped second grade 'cause you were so smart.

Ashley (00:09:56):

Some might say, I guess you passed

Lindsay (00:09:58):

Some tests and they were like, you don't need to do second grade.

Ashley (00:09:59):

Yeah, they definitely, that's amazing. Were just like, I started school I think early too. Whatever it was. I was always the youngest kid in every class because Lindsay

Moby (00:10:06):

Did the second grade three times. <laugh>, <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:10:09):

I loved the second grade.

Moby (00:10:11):

They just, she was like, I just don't wanna leave.

Lindsay (00:10:12):

That was the puzzle grade. And I was really into the,

Ashley (00:10:14):

I feel like I missed a lot like second grade. I feel like that might've been when they taught you right from left. 'cause I'm still always like having to take extra seconds to calculate that. There's some things that I did miss.

Moby (00:10:23):

And just to be clear, Lindsay did not do a second. I'm just, I'm just trying for like cheap shot comedy. Sorry Lindsay. I

Lindsay (00:10:28):

Mean I blacked out the whole time, so there's a good chance I did <laugh>

Moby (00:10:31):

<laugh>.

Ashley (00:10:31):

But yeah, so ultimately that was my little journey. It was the beginnings of me understanding the world and what I saw at the time. I liked. Hmm. Um, oh, I was also, um, raised vegetarian my whole life.

Lindsay (00:10:41):

So Mom is vegetarian. Yeah, she was

Ashley (00:10:43):

Vegetarian for 12 years up until I was born and she had breast cancer, a whole thing. But yeah, so she raised me vegetarian and Ive at a very early age was like, I don't want to eat an animal. Are you crazy? So that's amazing. That was pretty early

Lindsay (00:10:55):

On. How was that in school for you when you would go in? Like, you know, it's for kids. People are just like, eat the thing I'm giving you and they're annoyed when you don't wanna do that. What, what was your experience like?

Ashley (00:11:05):

I definitely was the kid that kind of didn't care if you were annoyed <laugh>. Right? Like, I was just like, I'm gonna live my life. And I don't know, it was very much at the time when I was really young, like, this is Ashley's world and you're all living in it. I didn't have the concept of like, oh, this is really like bothering you. Like this existence, my existence is like unsettling to you. I just really didn't care.

Lindsay (00:11:23):

That's such a beautiful thing. Was your mother a very confident person and instilled this confidence in you?

Ashley (00:11:28):

Super confident and I think my dad is equally confident. So I I mean up until you get into the middle school years, like I was as confident as could be.

Moby (00:11:36):

Wow. I, as someone who's always been insecure, same. I'm just amazed when I meet people who are sort of congenitally innately confident. I can't even imagine what that would be like.

Lindsay (00:11:46):

I can't, I truly cannot. <laugh> I've been terrified of everything since I was so little, so I can't even imagine what that was like.

Ashley (00:11:53):

Yeah, it was interesting because then there was the shift where like I lost that confidence and had to like rebuild it, which took another 10 years.

Lindsay (00:12:00):

What happened when you lost it?

Ashley (00:12:02):

Um, childhood beliefs. <laugh> like really at some point, like I registered like, oh, you guys are not nice. Was that

Moby (00:12:08):

Still in Los Angeles or, yes.

Ashley (00:12:09):

Still in the valley actually. I started middle school and I very quickly went from like my family. They still kind of were very kind and loving. But when I got to school I realized that these kids didn't think that I was like supposed to be popular. And in my head <laugh> I was like, but we're all just like kids. This is a fun time. I just left elementary school and I was not in the popular group. And so that kind of shifted everything for me.

Lindsay (00:12:32):

Hmm. But you had this realization of I used to feel one way and now I feel this other way that is objectively less good.

Ashley (00:12:40):

Yes.

Lindsay (00:12:41):

How can I get back to feeling that way? And you did it. How did you do that?

Moby (00:12:45):

Without, without taking, without taking recourse as some of us did to say lots of alcohol and drugs. <laugh>. Yeah.

Ashley (00:12:50):

<laugh>. I definitely did not go that route. Um, honestly, it took therapy as an adult to kind of sit through that and figure out like where I was on a new path and like assessing the things in my childhood that I was still holding onto like 10-year-old Ashley just still existing down the street. Like that's what blew my mind. I was like, oh, I didn't know I was holding onto all of these things. Mm. Um, but it was really weird because like, there was, there was the era when like Instagram and all those things and Twitter started coming out probably when I was approaching high school. And so that was kind of the period in which cyberbullying became a thing and I had to go through that. But prior to, I was really just bullied by sheer, just like exclusion. You're just made to not fit in. Yeah. And you're like different, but that's no longer a good thing. So I went through that for like middle school, high school, first few years of college <laugh>. And not until I transferred to my second college. And I felt like, okay, I kind of belong here. And then I still had to do like all the hard work, all of the long sessions with my beautiful therapist

Moby (00:13:45):

<laugh>. Wow. I feel like if you ever became a life coach, Lindsay and I would be your first clients <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:13:50):

That's that's real. Because I'm like, how do you do it?

Moby (00:13:53):

Uh, when Lindsay and I were talking about having you on, we realized your father is Reverend Jesse Jackson. Yes. And is that something you feel comfortable talking about?

Ashley (00:14:04):

Hundred percent. So you certainly

Moby (00:14:04):

Don't wanna like, bring up

Ashley (00:14:05):

Anything. It comes up quite frequently. So we're all good. Yeah. I feel open talking about it. No problem.

Lindsay (00:14:09):

Yeah. I mean he's been such a figure for such a long time, but also I feel like it's given you a really unique insight into the world of politics and civil rights from a seat that most people don't get.

Ashley (00:14:21):

Yeah. For

Lindsay (00:14:22):

Your whole life.

Ashley (00:14:23):

100%. I mean, I will say I have two childhood stories that are kind of funny to me. One, my mom said, I think I must've been around four and like my dad had a staff. So like, I was always walking around in an entourage when I was with him. And I was like, when I thought of people with staffs and entourages, I would think of royalty. So I remember like being like four or five, my mom says, I asked her, is dad a king? Like are we <laugh>? Are we some sort of like royalty? Like what's happening? She explained to me like the things I needed to understand at four or five. But that was, I think the first moment where I went, something is different here. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Like, this is not the way that everyone else is living life. Um, but then I remember also growing up and he would like take me to his like profound speeches at churches and I was like, if this man does not take me to Disneyland, we're fighting. Like, I don't wanna be here. So it took me a long time to kind of, I mean, I had to get through childhood to like be like, oh wait, who are you? Like, who is my parent as an adult, as a human? And like understanding his work and his legacy. I just turned 24, but like I'm finally starting to be like, oh, I really get it now. 'cause I did not get it when I was a kid. I was just like, okay. Yeah. It's hard

Lindsay (00:15:23):

To wrap your head around Yeah. When you're, you know,

Ashley (00:15:25):

100%.

Moby (00:15:26):

Have you ever watched the episode of SNL that he hosted?

Ashley (00:15:31):

Yes. I actually just watched it like within the last year.

Moby (00:15:34):

One of my favorite things, it's worth, if it's on YouTube, it's worth watching with, um, Ed Grimley, Martin Short's character. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So Ed Grimley was a recurring character on SNL and it's, it's really worth watching. Okay. So it's your dad getting on an airplane and the, the flight attendant's like, okay, Reverend Jackson, like, we'll make sure that you're not disturbed and that Ed Grimley sits next to him and Ed Grimley is the most obnoxious character on the planet who can't, who can't shut up. So I highly recommend that you get to a YouTube and watch Ed Grimley and Reverend Jackson because it's comedy gold <laugh>.

Ashley (00:16:07):

Yeah. I was really surprised watching that. I watched the whole episode and I was just sitting there. I mean, it's one thing that I think I grew up also seeing some of like the caricatures of him, but I had never seen him on SNL like being a part of the sketches. And that blew my mind. I remember that when it was very funny. He was funny, funny, funny,

Moby (00:16:21):

Genuinely funny. Great comic timing.

Ashley (00:16:23):

And that's really kind of how he is on a day-today. Like he's still like at 81 is like very funny. <laugh> just sitting there. I'm like, how are you saying this right now? Yeah, <laugh>. Like, he's he's hilarious to me for sure. But I mean, it's funny too, when I think about growing up with him, I always kind of considered myself like the black Hannah of Montana in the sense that like, which is why I probably had to go to therapy. Um, I, I really had a moment where I would be with my mom, we'd go to the grocery store and no, I would say a word I would get to live my life. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then I'd go with him and everybody knew who I was and everybody knew who my dad was. And like, I had to kind of put on this persona to get through life. And then it was just like topsy-turvy my whole childhood. I'd go out with him, I would be deemed important by people. Mm. And then I'd go home and no one would give a about what I had going on. So it was very weird.

Lindsay (00:17:06):

I have to clarify something for Moby Hannah Montana is a character played by Miley Cyrus. Okay. In her regular life, she was like a regular girl, but then she would put on her, oh, I'm blonde wig,

Moby (00:17:17):

I'm, I'm familiar with Miley's Ra <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:17:19):

Okay. I didn't know if you knew about Anna Montana

Ashley (00:17:22):

Just made me so happy. <laugh>.

Moby (00:17:24):

Um, I, I knew Miley back in the days when she was a vegan, which she no longer is. And I used to own a restaurant in Silver Lake and she would come in and we made a very weird music video together with this band, the Flaming Lips and in the video Miley. And I'm clean and sober. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> in the video. Miley looks like she's smoking marijuana. What I used to call pot back in the thirties. <laugh>. Uh, and she was not smoking marijuana, she was smoking DMT Rainforest. Psychedelic

Ashley (00:17:57):

<laugh>. I love the

Lindsay (00:17:57):

Gasp. That's a very intense drug that's not like a drug you can do. And then that's a joke. Quirk <laugh>.

Moby (00:18:02):

So I, I at least that's what I was told for her scenes, it looks like she's just enjoying a marijuana cigarette, <laugh>, what do people call it? Marijuana? Sure.

Ashley (00:18:12):

Okay. Yeah. There's there's a myriad of names. I, you

Lindsay (00:18:14):

Can call it whatever

Moby (00:18:14):

You want these days. Uh, 10 years ago I referred to it as pot and someone laughed in my face. I mean pot

Lindsay (00:18:19):

Is a pretty funny, funny they were like,

Moby (00:18:20):

What funny are you at, at Woodstock? Yeah. <laugh>. Um, so I'm familiar with Miley and Hannah Montana. Okay,

Lindsay (00:18:26):

Good. I just wanted to make sure,

Moby (00:18:27):

Especially 'cause like going from like Hannah Montana, like squeaky clean Disney was that Disney thing. Yeah. That

Ashley (00:18:32):

Was Disney.

Moby (00:18:33):

Yeah. Like to go from squeaky clean Disney to like smoking DMT in a Flaming Lips video

Lindsay (00:18:38):

Pendulum really swung hard for Miley Cyrus. Yeah. Yes it

Ashley (00:18:40):

Did.

Moby (00:18:40):

I love her voice. Good. Amazing. And she

Ashley (00:18:42):

Fantastic.

Moby (00:18:42):

Voice. Voice. So, okay, so sorry for the random Miley DMT aside. No, I but thank you for, thank you for,

Lindsay (00:18:48):

I just wanted to be sure

Moby (00:18:49):

Accommodating my

Lindsay (00:18:50):

Elder Lee status and also for any listeners that, that are not aware of Miley Cyrus, um, of Hannah Montana specifically. Um, so you have this time where you get to be normal kid at the grocery store and then where you are this kind of like daughter of this celebrated civil rights leader, political figure, all the things. Yeah. Um, what do you think that did <laugh> to you?

Ashley (00:19:14):

<laugh>? It really sent me to therapy. I mean, it was even weirder because for context, like the schools I went to in the Valley were quite interesting. But the school I graduated high school from is called Sierra Canyon, which is a very well known school now. And like there are a lot of celebrity children that graduate from this school. Like a lot. I mean, the year before I got there, 'cause I ended, I was on the cheer squad the year before I got there. Kendall and Kylie Jenner were on the cheer squad. There's also a weird disconnect because my dad is a bit older than the other. Like their parents knew who my dad was, but the kids could care less. So it was kind of like, I would have these moments of like being with him and doing these amazing things and I'd get back to school and they're like, but you're not a Jenner. We don't care about what you have going on. So it was a lot of layers of just like trying to figure out how to live a double life at one time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and like where you kind of feel whole in the spotlight, but like not really. And then you go home and you don't feel whole at all. 'cause everyone's telling you that what just happened didn't happen. So it was, it was weird. <laugh>, I have to say, it was really weird.

Lindsay (00:20:08):

And I think as a kid you're always looking for a sense of belonging, a sense of oh, a

Ashley (00:20:13):

Hundred percent community.

Lindsay (00:20:14):

And it's kind of hard to figure out when you're like, where where do I belong? Yeah. Which, which group am I in? Where do I feel, feel?

Moby (00:20:23):

And also where is my value? Yes.

Lindsay (00:20:24):

Where's

Ashley (00:20:25):

My 100%? Those are all the questions that I was subconsciously asking at the time and I had no answers. So I just figured out how to get through school. I transferred I think five years into my Catholic school experience. 'cause I was just like, when I had been with the same kids for five years and like, if you're already not popular year one by year five, no one could care less <laugh>. So I really was like, I've gotta go. But it didn't, it took me to get to like college and like do the whole finding myself thing to kind of really sit with like, who is Ashley? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Someone just asked me that question I think yesterday. And I was, I gasped, but like Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I'm still kind of answering that question, but I at least attach my value to like, tangible things instead of like attaching it to like how my career is going. 'cause that doesn't end well for anyone. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh> absolutely. My kid absolutely doesn't.

Moby (00:21:08):

Wow. I'm kind of amazed that at the tender age of 24 you've been both addressing these issues and figuring them out. It's really impressive. Uh, because people normally respond to that sort of dichotomy with either like anger, resentment, addiction, et cetera, et cetera. Like there's so many unhealthy ways of responding to it as opposed to saying, oh, these are my circumstances. How has it informed who I am? What do I wanna do with it? What do I want my response to be? So kudos to you for, I don't know, being it's what, it's what seems like a really healthy part of that process.

Lindsay (00:21:44):

I also have to say, and you are our very first Gen Z guest.

Ashley (00:21:48):

Oh my goodness. This is so exciting. Um, so

Moby (00:21:51):

Normally we talk to my peers where like, like we had Ed Begley Jr. On recently, and he and I were reminiscing about like TV shows in the seventies. And, and I was like, and Lindsay was just rolling her eyes like, who are these geriatrics <laugh>? Like,

Lindsay (00:22:05):

Um, happy to add that to the job description <laugh>. Um, but I do think that, I've noticed there seems to be a different approach to internal discomfort. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> for the gen Zers than there was for any of the other previous generations. Whereas like Moby's generation and even mine to a certain extent, responded to internal discomfort by drinking or engaging in toxic behaviors or developing bad habits. Yeah. But something I've noticed in the Gen Zs is that they're less dependent on substances. They are more dependent on mental health care. They are far more open-minded when it comes to places they can communicate these feelings that they're having. Yeah. Would you say that's generally true?

Moby (00:22:48):

Oh, Lindsay, can I ask you a quick question? Yeah. Are you a millennial? Yes. What are, yes. Really?

Lindsay (00:22:52):

I'm a millennial. You're

Moby (00:22:53):

Actually like demographically a Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. 'cause I'm Gen X, I'm solidly Gen X.

Ashley (00:22:58):

Well, I have to say it's really funny because my best friend literally just said, you belong in Gen X. You're not one of us <laugh>. So she just said that to me the other day. So sorry,

Moby (00:23:06):

Interrupt. I was just curious. I was, I never understood like demographically. So are you, you're actually a millennial? I'm

Lindsay (00:23:11):

A millennial. Okay. Yeah. Which I do really relate to the millennial kind of on weight sensibility.

Ashley (00:23:17):

Yeah.

Lindsay (00:23:18):

That we have <laugh>.

Ashley (00:23:19):

So, well I'm actually technically considered a al Oh right. 'cause I'm on the cusp because I grew up with VHSs younger than cassette tapes and all the things <laugh>. Yeah. And then my little cousins are like, what's a CD player? Oh. And it makes me wanna cry. So

Lindsay (00:23:30):

Would you call yourself an elder genzer? Oh

Ashley (00:23:33):

My gosh. The elder millennial thing cracks me up. But elder

Lindsay (00:23:36):

Millennial, I mean, I'm kind of an elder millennial. You're

Moby (00:23:37):

An elder millennial? Well,

Lindsay (00:23:38):

Not really. I guess I'm right in the middle. But, um,

Ashley (00:23:40):

Yeah, it's a, I mean, I don't necessarily call myself that, but I do have, like, it took me a while, like I would always vent to my friends about being frustrated about the fact that I was lumped in with these beautiful new kids who had no understanding of the world that I lived in. Like, I used to play with dirt. I remember like before Instagram, like these are things that

Lindsay (00:23:56):

Like, are you trying to say kids don't play with dirt anymore,

Ashley (00:23:58):

Do they? I

Lindsay (00:23:59):

Don't know

Ashley (00:24:00):

Know when you I haven't seen it recently. Um, I'm like, I don't really know what's happening on the playground, but I think it involves a lot of tablets now. So I think things

Moby (00:24:07):

Have changed. Yeah. Do you wanna hear an interesting thing about dirt? Yes. Yes. Okay. <laugh>. So, uh, you know how little kids are always like, they love dirt. They love putting dirt in their mouth. They love just like rolling around in the dirt and parents are always trying to clean them up. Turns out dirt is filled with tiny little worms, microscopic worms that are necessary to jumpstart our immune system. So without those little bitty worms, microscopic worms and dirt, our immune system suffer. So it's actually somebody

Lindsay (00:24:37):

Get these kids back in the dirt. I know. So

Moby (00:24:39):

When kids are like, I mean, I'm not advocating that kids like shovel dirt into their mouths, but like when they're doing it, it's like on some istic level, their brains know like, oh, this is good for us. Like this is good for our immune cyst. So fascinat, that's my little aside

Lindsay (00:24:51):

About dirt fascinat. Thank you. Sending

Ashley (00:24:53):

My incredibly future children into i'll,

Lindsay (00:24:55):

That's where they go. Dirt piles for babies. Yes. 100% is my new, I

Ashley (00:24:58):

Think we should go on Shark Tank, you know, to do a little

Moby (00:25:01):

Wow. What a good idea. Like, we got the product, guess what we're gonna monetize Dirt <laugh>. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:25:09):

For light consumption. <laugh>.

Ashley (00:25:11):

Um, but I would say too, I mean, thank you so much for the compliments. I mean, I think the way that I responded to like the weird dichotomy of my life was anxiety and depression. So I definitely, I didn't go to substances, but I definitely had my You

Lindsay (00:25:25):

Suffered. There was suffering, there was definitely suffering. But it's the way you responded to the suffering by seeking out a therapist. Yeah. And by being really honest with yourself and even us right now, I think that a lot of people from my generation or yours wouldn't gain the awareness that you have because they would be drunk in bars for about five years enjoying their suffering <laugh> Right. Before they actually did, did anything to get to the other side of it Yeah. And actually make changes in, in their perspective. Yeah. So I think that is a really beautiful thing. And something I've seen a lot of people from this Gen Z and even millennial group is, um, being like, yeah, the toxic stuff is a quick fix. Toxic behaviors are a quick fix, but why don't I actually do something about it? Yeah. And maybe, maybe it is because of social media because a lot of the reason because I didn't have social media when I was younger and having these weird toxic things 'cause nobody saw me doing it. But now I kind of am held accountable by the fact that everything is reported widely, you know? Yeah. Maybe that's a part of it. I don't

Moby (00:26:20):

Know. When I was growing up, social media was like the message board at the supermarket. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:26:24):

<laugh>.

Ashley (00:26:25):

I didn't even know if there was a message board. So you learn something new every day. There you go.

Moby (00:26:28):

So if you wanted to get like a used lawnmower, oh

Ashley (00:26:31):

My goodness. That's fascinating.

Moby (00:26:32):

If you needed like, lessons on how to play the harp, you could go there. Would

Ashley (00:26:37):

They do it with like a little like stick tech? Yeah. Then you

Lindsay (00:26:39):

Pull the number off the

Ashley (00:26:40):

Thing. Oh goodness. I do, I do know this, but not That's fascinating. At

Moby (00:26:43):

The local supermarket, by the entrance and exit, there was always like the little message board. Like, if you needed to adopt a kitten.

Ashley (00:26:48):

Yeah. I feel like I'm always just like nostalgic for like the life I never would've ever had. Like I'm like, I was born in 99 and yet I'm like, had I been born in the sixties, I would've been able to experience X, Y, and Z Not accounting for all the horrible stuff that happened in the last like 50 years. True. But I just, I think there's a part of my brain that's always just longing for like life without social media and all the things that we have now.

Lindsay (00:27:09):

Well there's all these reports coming out about how actually harmful social media is. It's

Ashley (00:27:13):

Incredibly harmful

Lindsay (00:27:14):

For children. But even for, for adults, it raises levels of depression, anxiety, isolation, all of that

Ashley (00:27:22):

100%.

Lindsay (00:27:22):

See? Not

Moby (00:27:23):

Great. It dovetails into something I really wanna talk about, which is to me there's the one great use of social media is animal activism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Like, I feel like animal sanctuaries, vegan activism. Like, so social media can be so toxic and so destructive, but it's been such a boon to the world of animal rights. Right. Can you tell us about, you said you've been a, a vegetarian since you were born. How, what you, where you are right now in terms of like your animal rights journey. You mentioned doing something with PETA. Yes.

Ashley (00:27:54):

So I am now a vegan. I transitioned in the last few years. It was a slow kind of weird transition, but like now there is no, I, I decided to just not draw the line. I'm just vegan and everything in my life. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is revolving around that. But it started for me because I developed long covid, um, at the start of the pandemic. Mm-Hmm. Um, I still have long covid. I'm sorry. Yeah. It was a doozy. But I think the first few years of be having long covid and then a subsequent set of illnesses that came from that dairy and me just no longer became friends, I was like, I don't know what's happening here, but dairy and gluten no longer belong in my body. I don't think they ever really did, but we can talk about that later. But mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I just cut it out and I was like, I feel a bit better.

Ashley (00:28:36):

I think the, the reactions that I was having stopped, um, as a result of getting rid of dairy and gluten. And I am very happy with my vegan gluten-free diet now <laugh>. I'm like, the food I eat tastes the same to me. And so yeah, that's the, on the one hand, that's like me just being like vegan in terms of the way that I eat. But now more recently, and even in working with PETA, like I've been able to really assess the ways that I can be vegan and transition to a vegan lifestyle, which is not something that I had, I don't think considered growing up because until you really, I think are educated on like the harms that like not being vegan can like cause to, to the planet, to other people, to other animals. Um, I didn't really have that knowledge, so I just was existing. But as soon as I was educated, it was just a no-brainer. I was like, well then why would I keep doing this? I have climate anxiety already <laugh>. Why would I contribute to the, like, death of the planet

Moby (00:29:23):

To sort of state the obvious. It's hard. And I think we all grew up with a similar thing of like if meat and dairy and leather and testing things on animals, like these are the status quo. Right. You know, this is what happens at Thanksgiving and Christmas and the 4th of July. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, this is what the government supports. This is what, like, there's just this assumption. Even if we question authority, we still sort of believe that like the status quo knows what it's doing. Right. And it's very hard when something is normalized to reject it, as we all know. Like, it, it can be very isolating. It can be very lonely, it can be very challenging. Right. But then once you sort of pull back the curtain and you realize how destructive meat and dairy production is,

Ashley (00:30:05):

It's incredibly destructive.

Moby (00:30:06):

Yeah. It's really hard to then look at the status quo with anything other than sort of either contempt or pity.

Ashley (00:30:12):

I would agree. I would definitely agree.

Lindsay (00:30:14):

I mean, it definitely is something you have to create a barrier in your mind so that you're not constantly walking around being like, you are making the wrong decision <laugh>. You know what

Moby (00:30:24):

I mean? Like, I saw a video, speaking of the social mediums. I saw a video on Instagram the other day of an animal rights activist who had video of pigs and cows being butchered, but he was showing it outside of a butcher shop. And the police came up to him screaming at him like, you can't show that here. And he's like, I'm just showing what leads to what's in there. And they're like, you're horrifying people. You're offending people. They don't want to see this. And he's like very calmly saying, but they're going in to eat what I'm showing. And they're like, we should arrest you. Like you're disturbing children. You're disturbing all these people. And he's like, all I'm doing is showing exactly what's being sold inside. And it was just so that that dichotomy again is so horrifying and fascinating. Yeah. That like, you can't show images of how the food that people love is produced. It's just like once you take that step back, you're like, it's just mind boggling that people won't look at footage of how their food is made.

Ashley (00:31:20):

And the impact I think of that footage is so strong in a lot of cases. Like people are repulsed when they actually see what's going on. And yet they're deciding not to allow people, people to see it. That's fascinating. I'm gonna sit with that for a minute, <laugh>. 'cause it just kind of doesn't make sense unless you look at like larger, not necessarily schemes, but the way that we like maintain the status quo is by preventing that, that level of activism I would think. But also

Lindsay (00:31:47):

They do a really good job of the beautiful storefront of the butcher place. The packaging where you never have to see a face or a Yeah. You know what I mean? The, the leather jackets that just look pretty and shiny and you don't have to think about where they came from. They did a very good job of separating product from reality,

Moby (00:32:04):

Even to the point of creating like happy cartoon animals. Like there's a, there's a slaughterhouse in Vernon. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> if you know Vernon, it's like way deep in downtown LA and we used to go to vigils there. Mm-Hmm.

Lindsay (00:32:18):

The Animals Save vigils the Animals Save vigils. I don't dunno if you've ever heard of it. I

Moby (00:32:21):

Haven't. It's you, you bear witness to animals who were being brought into the slaughterhouse. It's

Lindsay (00:32:25):

Very sad. You give them their last bit of water. Oh my

Ashley (00:32:27):

Goodness. That's traumatizing. It is.

Moby (00:32:29):

It's

Lindsay (00:32:30):

It's, it's hard. It was hard to

Moby (00:32:32):

Do. It's a, it's super intense, but they don't do them anymore there. Um, it's, I'm very glad I went because boy, it's, it's profound and intense and horrifying, but life changing. But what was so weird, the slaughterhouse, this giant slaughterhouse was covered with murals of happy animals and like,

Lindsay (00:32:51):

Just like dancing in a field and like all like actual smiles on their faces

Moby (00:32:57):

At a slaughterhouse. Like it's even said like farmer john's slaughterhouse, like, like they're, they're processing tens of thousands of animals a day with happy cartoon animals on the outside. And you're like, how, how, what, how did someone think this was a good idea? It's

Lindsay (00:33:10):

Like comically dark.

Ashley (00:33:11):

One of the things that I've come across in my journey into like I would say full veganism if that makes sense, is like this whole idea of access too. Um, because for a while coming back from college and I think even when I was, um, in college at Spelman in Atlanta, like I was in food deserts. And so it's really interesting to see also like how difficult it is to get access to the things that could allow someone to live a healthy vegan lifestyle. And so that's one of the things I'm working on with PETA is finding ways to promote food justice so that it's not just the rich people that go to Erewhon that can become vegans. It's like to be able to live in a vegan society, you have to be able to live in a society in which people are not separated by things like finances and economics. So it's been really interesting kind of looking at that. But also like when you get rid of the meat and dairy subsidies, you can reallocate that funding to support people vegan lifestyles.

Moby (00:34:02):

Yeah, exactly. You hit nail on the head. I co-authored a book a while ago. It was an academic book about meat and dairy production. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and everything came back to subsidies. Right. You know, a family of four going to Burger King without federal, state, local subsidies would be spending a hundred dollars. Everything about meat and dairy and basically all the industries that kill people and make them sick, they're all subsidized. If you wanna be an organic broccoli farmer, there probably aren't really any federal, state local subsidies for you. Right. If you wanna mass produce terrible sick chickens that are going to be deep fried in fast food restaurants, there are billions and dollars of subsidies available to you. Right. It's one of my personal missions is to try and somehow address the subsidy issue. It's borderline impossible because obviously the entrenched industries who benefit from the subsidies are so powerful and they know how to control congress, they know how to control state legislatures. But I really wanna try and figure out how to do something to end the fact that we're subsidizing industries that kill animals and kill people planet and destroy workers

Lindsay (00:35:05):

And destroy,

Moby (00:35:05):

Destroy communities, planet and the planet and create antibiotic resistance and et cetera, et cetera. So Yeah. But you hit the nail on the head by identifying subsidies.

Ashley (00:35:13):

Yeah. 100%. Well, we are one and the same in terms of that fight. And I think that's something that my parents, my mom's a political scientist and professor too, so I get the whole nerdy and scholarship. Where does she teach? Um, she's at California State University Northridge and she's been there for a while, but before that she was on the East coast doing that kind of thing. I think that's the one thing that kind of sets my brain apart is like understanding the politics and the policies that prevent these things from being adjusted. Yeah. I'm definitely gonna try to do my part for sure.

Lindsay (00:35:39):

Yeah, that's, well, I mean it's all about legislation. 100%. That's the only way to move the media

Ashley (00:35:44):

Public policy is like how we function in America. And you see what happens when policy is not supportive of people or animals and like we self-destruct. Yeah.

Moby (00:35:51):

Yeah. And the precedent for that. I read an article in the Atlantic a while ago talking about the power of policy shifts. Yeah. And how like civil rights, for example, when, uh, the Civil Rights Act was being advanced, a lot of people were saying, oh no, just let culture take care of this. You're like, no, you legislate it and culture catches up. Same thing with, uh, same-sex marriage. You can't let things change. Like of course you want things to happen on a, you know, more organic groundswell level, but when you legislate something it changes, you know, 100%. When the military was integrated, it was integrated overnight. Congress said, you now need to be racially integrated the next day. The military integrated as opposed to waiting for culture to catch up. So

Ashley (00:36:35):

100%, I I firmly agree with everything you just said. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:36:38):

Do you think that a lot of these politicians, especially Republican politicians, but I'm sure democratic politicians to some extent as well, are so beholden to such a small but vocal part of their constituency?

Moby (00:36:54):

Well, the people who pay for their campaigns. Yeah. Yeah. That

Lindsay (00:36:57):

They feel like they can't, even if they, they might really want to, you know, because then they lose they lose their, they lose their power. Yeah. They

Ashley (00:37:05):

Lose hundred percent.

Moby (00:37:06):

Sorry to interrupt. You're, you're a grad student, right? Um,

Ashley (00:37:08):

Yes. I start at USC in the

Moby (00:37:10):

Fall. And what are you, what are you gonna study?

Ashley (00:37:12):

Um, I am going into the Peter Stark producing program. So essentially learning about becoming a TV and film producer. My undergrad degrees were primarily in aam cinematic history. Hmm. And screenwriting. So I am adding from acting, which is what I already do, to getting the screenwriting degree and getting the producing degree so I can have my introduction

Moby (00:37:29):

Company and having a sort of almost by experience in osmosis, a political science degree.

Ashley (00:37:35):

100%. I I mean honestly, at some point I might go get a political science PhD, which my mom is very happy about, which annoys me. 'cause I'm slowly turning into her <laugh>. But

Lindsay (00:37:42):

I mean, there are worse people to turn into it sounds like. Yeah, true. <laugh>. Um, do you ever think about pol, I mean, obviously as a creator, a content creator, which is something that you are interested in doing, it will be naturally political because you are, you live by these morals, these moral standards. But do you ever think about a more proper career in politics? Does that ever occur to

Ashley (00:38:05):

You? Um, I mean, it's been floated around I think throughout my entire life. Not in a way that I think people would expect. Like I genuinely think while I'm watching Madam Secretary, I'm like, this is how I can impact the world. To me, art is so vital to the way that we can move culture. And so seeing how I'm being taught about how legislation is being constructed and how your constituents are basically your, your mouthpiece in, in some cases Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, um, and to getting things done. I feel like if I were to produce or write or act on a show like that where there's actually real change being affected based on exposing people to new ideas. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that might be it for me. I can't imagine myself going on the campaign trail as my own self or as someone's wife. I don't wanna do it. Yeah. But, you know, never say never, but I just don't think that that's in the cards for me. I think within this industry, I, I hope to have impact in that way. Yeah.

Moby (00:38:55):

The, the world of politics, especially campaigning, I was talking about this with some friends who've been around the world of politics, and imagine if you described it objectively, like, okay, you're gonna spend a couple of years, seven days a week, 18 hours a day going out, shaking hands, being disingenuous, spending all your money, spending all of your family's money with a 50% chance that you won't get the job. Yeah. And then once you get the job, you immediately have to start reapplying for the job. And your salary is, is less than an la sanitation worker. Like, it's so like the, I'm so glad that well-intentioned people get into politics, but I fully understand why a lot of sane, rational people run away from the idea of being involved in the world of politics.

Ashley (00:39:40):

Yeah. And I mean, I obviously like my dad and my brothers have gone into that space. God bless 'em. But I think too, for me, I also have, having this kind of front row seat to the life of politics, I've seen also what politics can do to people. Not to necessarily my family in particular, but watching like what the media can do to people. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> how it can destroy not only like their lives, but like their kids' lives and their parents' lives and their spouse's lives. Like to me, I just don't feel like that's the most valuable way for me to communicate with people is to potentially put myself on a world stage to get just taken down <laugh> immediately while I'm trying to do good. So I've been trying to assess in my future, I mean, I'm only in my twenties now, what ways I can do good that may not involve necessarily going that to my, in my opinion, cutthroat route.

Moby (00:40:25):

I'm curious because it seems like you occupy your history is so fascinating and unique. You're in like self-aware and erudite and very self-possessed. How does this affect your dating life? <laugh>? Like, how, if

Ashley (00:40:38):

You're like, no, I can totally answer this <laugh>, you're like

Moby (00:40:41):

Young and smart and self-aware speaking as someone who used to be in his twenties. There is no such thing as a smart self-aware boy or girl. Like, I mean, I I feel like you occupy an incredibly unique place and might, my assumption is it might be hard for you to find people who you would respect and appreciate enough to want to date them.

Ashley (00:41:01):

You have hit the nail on the head. It's very difficult. Um, I mean, I've never been in a relationship, not that I don't want to be, but I, I think basically what you said is one of the main reasons why, and I think as I've gotten older, I would say because I've become increasingly aware of myself, but then also like what it is that I want and trying to live life with intention. I mean, the dating apps really are not going to cut it <laugh>. Like it's just no. And then I'm walking down the street and I'm like, that's not gonna cut it either. Like, so I don't know if I'm gonna have to have an arranged marriage at this point. <laugh>. I'm not really sure. Yeah. I think it's incredibly challenging, but I mean, I also like, am very particular about the people that I consider my friends.

Ashley (00:41:37):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Like, I, it's weird because I think, so my parents are older, which I think is one thing too, like my sensibility of the world was not shaped by the parents of basically everyone around me. So I'm like, I have a father who's lived through the forties, the fifties, the sixties, like, and then some. And so when I think about the world that I was exposed to, it's hard to meet someone who kind of understands the world the way that I see it or can show me new things. So, um, yeah, I'm still in that space. I mean, I'm going to grad school, so fingers crossed, but <laugh>, I don't know right now, <laugh>.

Moby (00:42:13):

Well, you're smart and wonderful and you deserve to be happy and find love.

Ashley (00:42:17):

Thank you. I received that today. Yeah. I'm gonna put that on a shirt. <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:42:21):

But it's good that you're not wasting your time on these clowns that don't deserve you. I

Ashley (00:42:27):

Appreciate that. I mean, it took me some time to see that too though. 'cause I think, I mean, as much as I was different growing up, like all I wanted to be was normal. Yeah. I finally got into the space where like, I'm okay with not being normal. I'm okay with being the only one in my group of friends who knows who Sam and Diane are from Cheers. Like, I'm okay with that <laugh> <laugh>. But the way that I used to think was like, okay, but I know I'm different. How can I become like one of them? Yeah. How can I dress like them? How can I talk like them? How can I try to figure out how to date this guy who doesn't understand most basic things, let alone like how to have an intellectual conversation with me. And then, yeah, it took me, I think after I graduated from college to kind of be like, okay, now you're becoming an adult. I still feel like I'm becoming an adult. Um, but what does that look like for you? Like, what is it that you want out of life? And if this person doesn't align with that, why would you waste your time? So now I just don't, I just spend my time working and watching tv <laugh>. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:43:17):

<laugh>. That sounds, well then you and Moby will have a lot to talk about. I,

Moby (00:43:20):

I do love both those things. Work is great and oh boy, TV is fantastic.

Ashley (00:43:25):

So good. So, so good. <laugh>,

Lindsay (00:43:27):

I wanna talk a little bit more about your life as an activist and how, I mean, we've talked about a lot of it and I know you have this thing coming up with PETA, but because I think we have a lot of people who engage with this podcast who are very committed to their own veganism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and wanna find ways to be a better activist. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I guess, what would you say to someone that doesn't really know the way forward or how to be a better

Ashley (00:43:54):

Advocate? I mean, I'm still kind of figuring that out, but I think one of the best things for me thus far is just finding ways to reach people where they are. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So if your discussion with me about why you can't be vegan is that you don't know how you would eat, like you don't know what foods you would eat that you wouldn't be able to enjoy anything else that you typically enjoy, then let's talk about what substitutes, let's talk about what you eat already that's vegan and you don't even realize it's vegan. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like, starting the conversation where somebody is I think has been the most beneficial to me thus far in having the dialogues. 'cause if you try to meet someone like light years away, like well, subsidies, they just may not hear you. Yeah. <laugh>. So finding, finding ways to meet people where they are in the, the conversation is really just like kind of one of those like boots on the ground way to be, um, an activist. And then, I mean, I'm just doing my best to be, I think, outspoken in this space. Like if I'm a vegan and I'm a proud vegan and I want others to understand the importance of adopting a vegan lifestyle, then like I just have to be okay with using my voice, even if it's not popular, just join the unpopular club

Moby (00:44:50):

<laugh>. I think that's such great advice, what you're describing. I see that in the world of not just animal rights activism, vegan activism, but activism in general is instead of actually like effectively addressing an issue and being an advocate is insisting that people agree with you where you are. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and so, like for example, I'm mainly a vegan for animal issues, right? And if I go to someone who doesn't like animals, why in the world would I try to convince them to care about animals? Yeah. Like, if they already don't, they don't. Like, I, I sort of have to accept that it's like a function of respect, but also effectiveness, reaching people where they are. And certainly to your point, it's, it's a lot easier to move people an inch as opposed to a mile. Right? I think that's great advice. 'cause activists definitely are very guilty. At least I've been very guilty in my life of trying to like try and force people to agree with me where I am. Guess what? No one's where we are like everyone's had different life experiences. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I needed to hear that. Thank you for saying it. For

Ashley (00:45:50):

Sure. And we live in such like a polarized culture right now anyways, that really trying to get someone to agree with you right off the bat is just unlikely <laugh>. So trying to find the, the loophole that will get the conversation started seems to be the only way that we can get something done now without someone deciding to cancel you tomorrow on the internet. 'cause you disagree.

Lindsay (00:46:07):

Yeah. Yeah. And conversations that build connection as opposed to creating any sort of division even between two people. Right. The more you, you find ways that you relate, the better these conversations will go as opposed to seeking out and finding the ways that what you believe is opposed to what I believe. Finding the common ground first I think gives you an opportunity to have a much more effective conversation.

Moby (00:46:33):

And Yeah, you're absolutely right. And especially within the context of the fact that all algorithms promote conflict. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, all algorithms promote divisiveness. Like there are no algorithms on social media that promote people agreeing with each other. Right. You know, there's no such thing as like a 24 hour news network that prioritizes people agreeing with each other. Everything is division and conflict. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So like if you can somehow figure out a way of bypassing that, it's certainly a remarkable challenge.

Ashley (00:47:02):

Yeah. 100%. I'm like with the dog. Oh.

Moby (00:47:06):

And it's like a little dog visiting so far. Our listeners a little aside, we just had a moment where Lucy, the dog was an doing downward dog. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> doing a sort of like tiny dog yoga pose and it was especially adorable. Absolutely. It was

Lindsay (00:47:21):

Very special. Oh, she did you

Ashley (00:47:22):

Doing anything? My So

Moby (00:47:23):

Cute. Hi,

Ashley (00:47:24):

I'm having a time with these dogs right now. I'm like, focus, Ashley, answer the

Moby (00:47:27):

Question. They just doing her downward dog too. <laugh>.

Ashley (00:47:29):

That's so cute.

Lindsay (00:47:30):

Wow. Wow. Very impressive dog. Well, Ashley, it's so inspiring to talk to you as such a young, I mean, when I was 24, activism was really just the last thing <laugh> on my mind. And to see you in your youth starting off on this journey and being so principled and driven is such a, it makes me feel like maybe the human race is gonna be okay. <laugh> <laugh>.

Moby (00:47:53):

Thank you. Can you, can you tell us what your campaign is gonna be with PETA?

Ashley (00:47:56):

Um, on the, on the actual poster it says Food Justice for all. Amazing. So, um, I mean I went with that one so I thought it was like the simplest way to say it. We want food justice for all people, all beings. Yeah. Food justice to support animals, to support all creatures on this planet and to support the planet. So yeah. Food justice for all kind of encapsulates it.

Moby (00:48:15):

I think it's something we've talked, we had our friend Gwenna Hunter was on, she's an amazing vegan activist. I was talking about how, because I've been a vegan now for 37, 38 years. Long time. Wow. And for most of that time, the world of veganism was very white, very white, a little older. And something started happening around 10 or 12 years ago. All of a sudden I would go to vegan restaurants and half the people in the restaurant would be people of color. Yeah. It's been really fascinating and inspiring to see that change happen. Yeah. Uh, like, um, a movie that my friend, do you know John Lewis? He's named after John Lewis. Oh

Ashley (00:48:53):

Yeah. I was like, I know John Lewis, but I don't think

Moby (00:48:55):

I know. So John Lewis, he's badass vegan on Instagram. So he happened to look John Keegan who made Keegan made "What The Health" and "Cowspiracy". Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. They made this movie called "They're Trying to Kill Us", right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and Billie Eilish produced it. I don't know where it lives online, but it's specifically about how sort of like colonialist and I feel weird as like a cisgendered white guy from Connecticut saying this, but like colonialist food and food systems are designed to keep people of color sick and designed to keep people, you know, like buying pharmaceuticals and buying like, it, it's a, it's a, it's an insidious form of oppression. So I'm really grateful that you're doing more to draw attention to that. Yeah,

Ashley (00:49:38):

100%. I mean, I think that equity is the, at the root of every fight in terms of activism, um, that is on the side of supporting beings and not, um, taking away from them. But yeah, when I think about oppression, as you said, I think it, it stems so far back that sometimes we don't even, can't even quantify the ways that we're still tied to things like colonialism or imperialism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So it's just fascinating when you think about like how a vegan lifestyle may be impacted by colonialist rule. It just blows my mind. Yeah. Or the lack thereof rather. Yeah.

Moby (00:50:08):

I I have one thing. We sort of addressed it, but I still find it so interesting when we were doing our research about you Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. There was this like wonderful, and it's sort of in keeping with you talking about how you sort of have occupied different worlds Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but like the, the images of like you at the White House at the United Nations, but then images of you also being like a USC student <laugh>. I found that to be really fascinating at this point. Where do you feel more yourself, like if you're at the UN or at the White House or surrounded by political luminaries or at USC with your peers?

Ashley (00:50:43):

I mean, I think the, the main transition that I've had now is like instead of looking at my life in like these two kind of spheres is like looking at it as a fusion. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So how can I exist in a world in which being at the White House in the UN makes me feel whole just as much as being on set or being at USC does. And like, so now I think I kind of can exist in any of those spaces and kind of feel like myself and kind of feel grounded. But I would say it it, there are some times where it is still a little weird. I'm, I just had a friend the other day who I had mentioned that I wasn't able to attend the Juneteenth celebration at the White House because I had the pita shoot and I was just having a casual conversation and she was like, that's not something normal that comes out of a lot of people's mouths.

Ashley (00:51:26):

<laugh> <laugh>. Like you have to decline an offer from the White House to go do a pita shoot. Maybe a lot of other 24 year olds are doing this. Maybe they're not. So like kind of looking at my life, I think I'm just now coming to this space of like still asking myself the question like, what is it that you're doing <laugh>? Like I'm sitting here talking to Moby right now. What is happening? <laugh>. So I think I feel grounded in these spaces, but I'm also still just in awe at life itself and just a little confused about what's happening. Like, I think one of the interesting stories for me is I kind of say yes not to too much anymore, just I'm trying to be more selective as I get older about how I spend my time. But like, I remember when I was younger I, I had a casting director who I'd worked with on another project and she was just like, Hey, can you come in and be a reader for me for these chemistry reads for this project? And I was just 16-year-old, me, 17-year-old, I was like, yeah, sure, I'll come over and do that. And I literally walked in and did the chemistry reads and booked the role because the directors and producers were there. And so like that was just it. And then I was in a Netflix movie and I was just like, this is not normal <laugh>. But, so I think I still have moments like that where I'm like, I don't understand what's happening.

Moby (00:52:28):

But the wonderful thing is, especially in the world of entertainment, that weirdness is normal. Yeah. That old expression like man plans and God laughs. Like that's a

Ashley (00:52:39):

100% true.

Moby (00:52:39):

That's actually true in the broad world of entertainment. Like our mutual friend Mayim Bialik, did she ever tell you how she ended up on The Big Bang Theory?

Ashley (00:52:47):

Um, I vaguely remember a little bit of the story, but please refresh my memory. So

Moby (00:52:52):

She's so fascinating. Um, also an amazing vegan activist, but she was a mom and married and had two kids and had gotten her PhD in neuroscience I believe.

Ashley (00:53:02):

Yeah. From UCLA.

Moby (00:53:02):

Yep. And an agent called her up and said, oh, I know you're not really acting, but would you be in any way interested in auditioning for this show? It would mean you can keep your health insurance. And so the only reason apparently she auditioned for Big Bang Theory was a

Ashley (00:53:18):

Insurance. Yeah.

Moby (00:53:19):

Keep health insurance. I just think that's so far. Like it's not like I want to be an actor. I wanna go out and conquer the world and I wanna go to red carpets. It's like, oh, I want to keep my health insurance. Which

Ashley (00:53:28):

Also illuminates so many problems with this country and health insurance. But it is a beautiful story in that sense that it does kind of like there is just like this universal non normalcy in the way that we exist. So I think I'm just now coming to the point where I'm accepting that things just may not be normal. But also like I've planned, I think at a very young age like this, just like magnanimous huge life for myself at like four or five. Like I was the girl that, like I started out in music when I was really young though I would host girls over and I'm like, we're having like, we're in a singing group. I'm the lead singer 'cause that's just how it's gonna be. Sorry guys. And we're having rehearsals. This is, I know this is a play date for you, but this is rehearsals, this

Moby (00:54:03):

Is when you

Ashley (00:54:03):

Were four. I was around 4, 5, 6. Okay. That whole era. And so I would write out my PowerPoint agenda of how rehearsals were gonna go. <laugh>. I would have the rehearsals if you weren't up to par, you'd get cut from the group. Oh my. While you're still at my house though. My so like <laugh>, when I think about the way that I saw the work that I wanted to do as like in my single digit years and where I am now and where I want to go, I am just as I said, like becoming okay with like, maybe you just didn't choose a normal path <laugh>. Like maybe that's just what it is. And so how do you feel like safe and secure and grounded in that non-normal? See I think I'm still kind of answering that question right now, but it is something that I'm considering deeply. Yeah. Because I'm like, this is just kind of odd. I love people's origin stories though. They're so fascinating. Yeah.

Moby (00:54:46):

No one ends up Mo I'd say the majority of interesting people rarely end up where they planned on ending up. Yeah. You know, everything is circuitous and there's just so many happy accidents, so many weird accidents. And I think it's sort of like being available to the happy accidents and not being decimated by the bad accidents.

Ashley (00:55:05):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that is literally such a beautiful way to look at life. I mean I think it's really profound when you think about it. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:55:11):

It's a hard thing to do.

Ashley (00:55:12):

Oh my god. It takes a

Lindsay (00:55:13):

Lot of fortitude. I'm not a fan of adulting a joyful Yeah.

Ashley (00:55:17):

<laugh> I have to say. Like I know that. I'm like, okay, 24 Phil. No, I wish I could go back to the single digit here. So bad <laugh>. There's just something I, I think what you've said allows me to kind of put adulting in a different lens, but like on a day-to-day, like paying bills, rent responsibilities. Yeah. I did not sign up for this. I don't know what I signed up for, but I don't think it was this so I'm upset about it, I have to say. Yeah.

Moby (00:55:40):

The only, the only good part of that, well, apart from paying bills and not having the gas turned off is the compassion that you can have for the fact that everyone's going through it. Yeah. Like I had this experience that I've talked about before. 'cause I repeat myself a lot. Uh, I was on the 10 driving to Coachella the last time I played there and I was in traffic. It was hot, it was ugly, it was miserable. And I was feeling so sorry for myself. Like, woe is me that I have to like sit here in traffic and this is so unpleasant. And I looked around and I suddenly realized, oh, everyone hates this. Yeah. In fact, most people probably hate this way more than I do <laugh>. Like I'm driving to Coachella where I'm gonna stand on stage in front of a hundred thousand people. Like it's really not something to complain about. Most people are like going to and from jobs, they hate to homes. They're having a hard time paying for dealing with illness. And like, I just had this wonderful moment of like satori of this expanded sense of compassion of like, oh, my struggle is educational 'cause it gives me a foothold for compassion for the struggle that everyone's going through.

Ashley (00:56:40):

I mean, it's, it's really true. And I honestly think becoming sick. Like I remember right before I got, because I got Covid three times, which is just like absurd God. And like I'm also a person who doesn't leave my house. So it wasn't like I was the one at the rager trying to go like hang out with no masks on

Moby (00:56:55):

One of, one of Lindsay's neighbors <laugh>. Oh boy.

Lindsay (00:56:58):

I had a neighbor who like early pandemic was going to these like underground, oh no party like bottle service parties. It's upsetting. And I was like, and then he of course got covid and got really, really sick and I was like, if only you weren't constantly going to underground bottle service parties. Yeah. I mean

Ashley (00:57:16):

That

Moby (00:57:16):

Was, it's so unfair. But no, actually it's just logical.

Ashley (00:57:19):

So yeah, I'm like, yeah, things just happen that way. But so when I got sick, this was like right after I had had a film premiere at Sundance and like, I must've been like 19, 20 and I was in my senior year of college and I was like, life can't get any better. And then my world stopped. It grounded me to the point to where I didn't know if I was gonna wake up the next day. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I think when you kind of, which is probably why sometimes seems so mature at this age too, is like when you think that your life is gonna end before you're 21, you kind of just don't care about the things anymore that like other people care about. Like I don't really care about how many likes I get on Instagram, I'm just grateful to have breath. But like in that sense, like it does universally allow you to sit with other people and have a different level of compassion because I'm like, I'm just happy to be here guys. <laugh> like, even though I'm not happy about the bills and things, like I can see how that type of experience it does kind of unify you even if we don't like them as a, as a whole. Yeah. We are just still on this planet together.

Moby (00:58:08):

Well I'm sorry you went through that, but as weird as this might sound, I'm also glad that you went through it. Yeah. Because it sounds like you've emerged stronger and wiser.

Lindsay (00:58:16):

100%. And with this kind of beautiful perspective of what matters and how do I want to spend my precious energy in this lifetime?

Ashley (00:58:25):

100%. And that's me fighting for humans, fighting for animals, fighting for the planet and making my art <laugh>. No,

Moby (00:58:30):

I can't think of a better place to end

Lindsay (00:58:33):

Other than however we can support you. Yeah. In this journey. We are here for you forever. Thank

Moby (00:58:40):

You. <laugh>. Oh yeah. So where, where, I guess that's the practical question. Where can people find you on a daily basis? They

Ashley (00:58:46):

Can find me on a long username on a few apps. <laugh>. So I'm gonna say it out loud and then I'll spell it. Ashley Laverne Jackson. A-S-H-L-E-Y-L-A-V-E-R-N-E-J-A-C-K-S-O-N. And I'm on Instagram, TikTok occasionally when I'm forced. And Facebook. And I have a website, same name. So that's kind of where people can reach me. Yeah.

Moby (00:59:11):

TikTok scares me every time I go there. I'm like, why are these people yelling at me? <laugh> like, it's so loud. <laugh>. I feel like such a boomer. I'm like, I don't wanna watch people having fist fights in parking lots. Like why

Lindsay (00:59:21):

Wait till I introduce you to clean talk? Oh no.

Ashley (00:59:23):

Oh my God. Is it the, the TikTok where they do the organization,

Lindsay (00:59:25):

It's a part of TikTok where they just show you different ways to clean things. Yes.

Moby (00:59:30):

I do like cleaning. I'm, it's,

Lindsay (00:59:32):

I'm

Moby (00:59:32):

Really And you love it.

Lindsay (00:59:33):

I'm

Ashley (00:59:33):

I'm it. It's well with my soul. Yeah. I think I just need to find like my TikTok people. Yeah. Because I feel pressure to dance on TikTok and I sometimes I just don't feel like dancing. So it'd be really nice to find like, how can I best organize my pantry? Like that would work for me. Yeah.

Moby (00:59:45):

I need tips on how to clean stoves and also tops of baseboards. Like there has to be an easier way to clean the tops base.

Lindsay (00:59:53):

There's tools for that. There's tools. 'cause

Moby (00:59:54):

I just use like a rag and I get outta my hands and knees and I like no clean the tops of the baseboards, but I got a lot of baseboards. Yeah,

Lindsay (01:00:00):

No, you did this. It's

Moby (01:00:01):

Amazing. There's stuff that we've covered here. <laugh>.

Ashley (01:00:04):

Oh yeah. We fit all the topics in

Moby (01:00:06):

One can. Like federal subsidies, long covid, cleaning baseboards, <laugh>. Okay. So now we're gonna let you go because we've taken up so much of your time and we're really grateful for it.

Ashley (01:00:15):

Well thank you so much for having me. This was like an absolute pleasure. I'm like fangirling real hard right now. Oh good. <laugh>.

Lindsay (01:00:22):

Okay. Yay.

Moby (01:00:31):

Well that was amazing. What

Lindsay (01:00:32):

A gift Ashley Jackson is. I feel so lucky that we got to have her and that she's our friend now. Yeah. Like what a gift. It's so cool.

Moby (01:00:42):

And it gives me, I know I said this before, but it does actually sort of give me a little bit of hope. Maybe there is the possibility that like new generations, whether it's Gen Z or even whoever's gonna come after Gen Z are going to be smart and hardworking and principled and fix the horror show that the boomers and Gen X are leaving them.

Lindsay (01:01:04):

Well I think a lot of these young people are starting to realize that they are not going to be left with much, it could get dark. And I think they're trying to come up with ways to make their children and their children's children's lives better.

Moby (01:01:19):

Or their children and their children's lives even exist.

Lindsay (01:01:22):

Yeah, exactly.

Moby (01:01:23):

There's that. I think it was an Albert Einstein quote, what is it? World War III will probably be fought with nuclear weapons, but all subsequent wars will be fought with sticks and stones. So oof.

Lindsay (01:01:35):

Dark mouth. Yeah.

Moby (01:01:36):

Dark. Okay, <laugh>. So on a happier note, well we just had a wonderful conversation with Ashley and we're sitting here with Bagel who's taking a little nap. And next Moby Pod episode will be the one year Moby Pod anniversary with Lindsay's epic poem. And your comments and questions and thoughts. So please send more stuff through, 'cause you've sent through a lot and we love everything, almost everything we've received. And we really want to take the time to go through everything that you've sent through. So please send us more stuff. And Lindsay, do you wanna say thank you to anyone?

Lindsay (01:02:10):

I do wanna say thank you. I wanna say thank you to you, our listener, but also to anyone that has sent in their amazing stuff. And thank you to anyone who hasn't sent something in yet, but is about to. I also wanna thank Jonathan Nesvadba for editing this podcast like a champion. I also wanna thank Bagel for being a teensy tiny baby

Moby (01:02:32):

And Bagel's also the best, smartest, greatest creature I've ever met in my entire life. I

Lindsay (01:02:37):

Couldn't agree more. Yeah. Could not agree more. And I would like to thank our dear friends at Human Content for getting this podcast out in the world and into your precious little ear holes.

Moby (01:02:49):

And we will talk to you in two weeks. And again, send through questions and comments and thoughts because boy, we want to go through them and everything we've seen so far has been really great. So please send us more stuff and we'll talk to you in two weeks. Bye.