Moby (00:00:07):

Hi, Lindsay, and Bagel.

Lindsay (00:00:08):

H``i, Moby and Moby's Dark thoughts.

Moby (00:00:11):

Do I, do I have dark What? A, what a strange way to begin. <laugh>, do I have dark thoughts?

Lindsay (00:00:17):

Well, no, I just, your light thoughts don't need to be addressed because they're happy and doing really fine right now.

Moby (00:00:22):

Um, well, how about, here's my suggestion. We

Lindsay (00:00:25):

Start over.

Moby (00:00:26):

Uh, we either start or, or orver we <laugh> or maybe, I mean, this is comedy gem, like dark thoughts and me mispronouncing words like over. So

Lindsay (00:00:35):

Should we just start over <laugh>?

Moby (00:00:37):

No, I think we should just keep, like, the further we go with this, the worse it gets, which means the better it gets and we should just absolutely not start

Lindsay (00:00:44):

Over. So I think anyone watching or listening is just cringing so hard. They're like, get me outta here. This reminds me of my childhood.

Moby (00:00:50):

Okay. So we'll continue <laugh> with that. Now, do you know why today is special?

Lindsay (00:00:57):

Well, I have an idea, but what do you think? Because

Moby (00:01:00):

We have another really fascinating, interesting podcast interview. Hey,

Lindsay (00:01:06):

Yes, that is what I was thinking. Uh,

Moby (00:01:07):

So today we're gonna be talking to

Lindsay (00:01:10):

Talking to our friend Billie Lee, who I have been a fan of for a long time. And I'll tell you why Billie Lee is (a) really, really hot, but (b) and other letters after that is an amazing standup comedian is an unbelievably outspoken vegan, is an activist on her huge platform. And also, and this is just a fun thing, Billie was on Vanderpump Rules and also something Billie did is make this really cool hoodie that I'm wearing, um, that says, be kind to every kind and it has a really cute cartoon of like a pig and a cow and a chicken and a sunshine. And I love this

Moby (00:01:50):

Sweatshirt and a sunshine. Yeah, <laugh>, I mean in terms of occupying a unique space like a trans vegan comedian, reality TV star

Lindsay (00:02:03):

And podcast host. Yeah. And producer and writer. I mean, I don't think there's anything that Billie doesn't or hasn't done and been very good at. So it was very fun to talk to her and I'm really, really excited to share this with her and for her to have the opportunity to share her journey because she's just seen so many things and been through so much and still manages to live a life of service and laughter and is just a very inspiring person.

Moby (00:02:36):

So, uh, we'll get started, but in the episode we talk about vegan journey, her comedy journey, her reality TV journey, her trans journey, her everything journey, her sweatshirt making journey, and let's go talk to Billie.

Lindsay (00:02:48):

Okay, great. And if you enjoy all of those journeys, Billie is on a comedy tour right now, so go check the Big Happy Comedy Tour and see if, uh, they're in your town. Um, yeah, let's go talk to Billie.

Moby (00:03:11):

So to begin, hi Billie.

Lindsay (00:03:13):

Hi Billie.

Billie (00:03:13):

Hi.

Moby (00:03:14):

Thank you for coming on to Moby Pod.

Billie (00:03:17):

Yes.

Moby (00:03:18):

Coming all the way from Sherman Oaks, which I assume was about 12 minutes away. <laugh> Yeah.

Lindsay (00:03:23):

Close.

Moby (00:03:24):

And there's so much that we want to talk about, but sometimes what I like to do, because I'm basic, is ask biographical questions because that puts everything in context. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it's even like sometimes we've interviewed people I've known for years and I knew nothing about their history before I knew them. So in your case, super simple. Where were you born? <laugh>? Or you can approximate if you want.

Billie (00:03:48):

Yeah, No, no worries. I was born in Indiana, a very small town.

Lindsay (00:03:52):

What small town? It's

Billie (00:03:53):

Called West Terre Haute, but it's connected to Terre Haute, which is a little bit bigger.

Lindsay (00:03:57):

Oh. I lived in La Porte, Indiana, north, north for like four years.

Billie (00:04:01):

Really? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. I love the land in Indiana. It's just like all the farmland and you know, the crops. It's like, and yeah, 1984, I'm 40 years old and I I'm just really grateful that I'm 40, you know, like I'm happy with my age and you know, all the things that I've gone through as a trans woman. I think it's, you just have to be grateful for every year, every day.

Moby (00:04:21):

And when you were growing up, what did your parents do? What was home life like? Uh, again, unless you don't wanna talk about that. No,

Billie (00:04:27):

I'm an open book, literally <laugh>. Um, they are very, well, they didn't graduate high school. I think they just made it past middle school and they had me when they were 16.

Lindsay (00:04:38):

Oh my gosh. Both of them were 16.

Billie (00:04:40):

My mom was 16, about to turn 17, and my dad was like, I think a year or two older. That's so young. So young. I mean, it's definitely like a very hillBillie story. Um, <laugh> like trailer park and my dad was a roofer. My mom was a stay at home mom. And, um, a lot of government assistance, but a lot of crazy just childhood trauma when it comes to my parents and stuff. However, they are still like very loving and accepting and um, have a great relationship with my mom now. So it's

Lindsay (00:05:09):

Good. That's great. Do you have siblings?

Billie (00:05:11):

I do. I have a brother who is, um, a year younger than me, but we don't have a relationship.

Lindsay (00:05:17):

Got it. That sucks.

Billie (00:05:18):

Yeah, he's very, very, um, let's just say Trump supporter. Yep. You know, total opposite of me paints a

Lindsay (00:05:23):

Picture, <laugh>. Um, but everything was, I mean, obviously there were challenges, but it seems like if they're accepting now, they were probably like, how was that? I mean, and, and then eventually you decided to go to college somewhere. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Billie (00:05:37):

Well, we didn't have the language for it then. And my parents, you know, it was just shame. And I realized this through my ayahuasca ceremonies and a lot of therapy <laugh> that like my parents just did the best they could do and they were receiving like judgment and shame from the community. So it just internalized and then it came out within our relationship and a lot of people mistaked me as their daughter, so they had to like constantly correct them because I was so feminine and had this feminine energy. And then my parents and my therapist and everyone just said that I would be gay, like a gay male. We really didn't have the language that we do now. So there was a lot of shame to purge over the years, but now they are like my biggest fans and they call me daughter. Like there is no, like, I forget that I'm trans sometimes. It's crazy <laugh>, especially with my family.

Moby (00:06:27):

I mean that, that's amazing. Yeah. I mean especially, I mean, like, I did this type of therapy a while ago called somatic therapy and part of it, or somatic psychodrama. And anyone listening is like, oh wow. How can you tell me you're from Los Angeles without saying you're from Los Angeles <laugh>? It's like, well, I did somatic psychodrama therapy at a house in Woodland Hills. Like, so it was super interesting. But one of the most interesting things was I was able to recreate a scene from my childhood with other people in this group psychodrama. So I was able to say like, this one person was gonna be my mom, her boyfriend, and then also pick someone who's gonna be young. Me. And I stood back and directed it and watched and told them how to interact with each other. And it was fascinating 'cause I had a a, a similar-ish upbringing.

Moby (00:07:18):

I grew up very, very poor government assistance, lots of weirdness and, you know, dysfunction, addiction, trauma. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But, uh, I had this very self-evident realization, and you guys can stop me or ignore me if this isn't interesting or relevant, but all my life I had assumed is that like the grownups were powerful, that the grownups were big. That, that, that they, my mom and her boyfriends and whomever, like they knew what they were doing 'cause they were grownups. Like I was tiny, you know, four years old looking up at these beings. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And when I did this psychodrama, I suddenly realized like, oh, they were idiots. They were just stupid kids. Yeah. Who were, to your point, sort of in their own clumsy way trying to do their best. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And hearing about your, your parents' sort of transformation and imagine, like, imagine being, well, not even imagine, you don't have to 'cause you grew up with it. Imagine being 20 years old, 21 years old, having a non-conforming child in rural Indiana. Yeah. First of all, being 21 years old, like 21 year olds don't know anything.

Billie (00:08:27):

I know, but

Lindsay (00:08:28):

Also at the time, I mean, because I'm about the same age. Like yes, we're like, you know, our parents knew a little bit more, but not in rural Indiana. No. Like, there, there wasn't as much of a language for any of that. Yeah.

Moby (00:08:44):

Was there a time, like, do you remember when you became aware that you were, and, and again, I apologize if I don't have the perfect language, so that's fine, <laugh>. Um, but like gender non-conforming when you realized that you were not, you know, identifying with the gender you were born with.

Billie (00:09:00):

Um, I feel like there was a moment, like I always was very feminine and attracted to very feminine things, but there was a moment that I learned that it was wrong. And that was a Easter egg hunt. Like I found, and I think I was five, I wanna say I was five years old. I found like one of the golden eggs and I could get like a bike or something big and you choose from like all the boy toys in a tent or all the girl toys in a tent. And my dad had me on his shoulders and he like passed the girl's tent and wouldn't let me and the girls tent to pick like a pink bike. And so I feel like that's when I realized, okay, I'm not like what's going on in this boy tent or being a boy, but I'm not allowed to be the pink. Hmm. Like, that was, and I didn't have the words or the language for it, but like, that's when I knew that it was something very wrong and I was wrong, is what I was told. Ugh. At the time. Ugh.

Lindsay (00:09:58):

That's so painful. But it's also painful in a way that you can't, you can't describe, you don't have the words to explain what the experience is, you know?

Billie (00:10:06):

Yeah. And I mean, I dealt with a lot of microaggressions growing up and one of the things my dad always, he would try to get me to go fishing and hunting and to be like a man and he's like, you gotta man up. Like he was trying, and his mind was to protect me. Mm. My son needs to grow up and be able to protect himself and one day have a family of his own. Like this is literally what he tells my brother <laugh> <laugh>. But like that, and I know he was, their intention was to protect me. Um, but it was also harming me. Yeah. Uh, and I learned that through just experiences of, you know, growing up and also knowing what microaggressions are. And then I've recently, like I wrote a book about it and it's like knowing how many microaggressions I experienced as a child, and the, even though they're micro, they really affect you.

Lindsay (00:10:54):

And boy do they add up, especially over time when you start to realize, why am I reacting this way? And then you're like, oh yeah. Decades of teensy tiny little cuts. Yeah.

Moby (00:11:02):

And especially when that becomes, when that's the norm. Yeah. You know, it's not like you have like a stable healthy norm outside of the microaggressions. Like the microaggressions lead us to define like who we are, how we are. Like, we're like, oh, this is normal. Mm-Hmm.

Billie (00:11:17):

<affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Lindsay (00:11:18):

But especially when it's coming from your parents, who you are as a child entirely dependent on their love and acceptance and, and support. So it's even more of kind of a mindfuck as a little kid.

Moby (00:11:30):

Um, yeah. So, so I don't wanna lighten the mood too much <laugh>, but you reminded me a little bit. Did you ever see The Simpsons episode with John Waters?

Billie (00:11:39):

Okay. No, I didn't. I'm about it watching TV

Moby (00:11:42):

<laugh>, it's, it's potentially worth watching because Homer becomes friends with John Waters and at some point realizes that John Waters is gay. And so, so Homer is concerned that Bart has been affected by John Waters. So Homer tries to turn Bart into a man, uh, like a real man. And so they go to a steel mill so Bart can be exposed to the macho steel mill. And of course in the steel mill, all the guys have their shirts off and are dancing to c and c music factory <laugh> <laugh>, and just goes on and on. And in the end, Homer and John Waters reconcile because John Waters saves Homer from being killed by Santa's reindeer or something. But it's, it's really totally

Lindsay (00:12:22):

Makes sense. Yeah.

Moby (00:12:24):

But it is really it when you were talking about your dad trying to turn you into like a regular American boy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it did remind me of Homer trying to turn Bart into a regular American boy. And it also reminds me yesterday we were speaking with Neal Barnard. Do you know Neal Barnard? He has been a vegan doctor for about 40 years. He started this organization, the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine. It's a vegan doctors organization. And we were talking about this, this weird idea that meat and dairy are macho. 'cause like, I took a, I take you take a step back and I apologize Lindsay for repeating myself, but it's the weirdest thing, like all the, the way in which macho guys define themselves as macho. Like, I went to a Super Bowl party a couple years ago and I don't know anything about sports.

Moby (00:13:14):

And I was watching my friends and I was like, and my friend Ashley, who was hosting the party, he was like, oh, so what do you think? And I was like, wow, this is great. It's, it's just so fantastically gay. And he was horr. He was like, what do you mean? And I was like, there are 10 guys in a room watching guys on screen, slap each other's butts, wearing incredibly tight clothes. Like, this is fantastic, but it's also wonderfully gay. And he was like, this it, he was so mad I haven't been invited back. Not surprising

Lindsay (00:13:40):

<laugh>, he called his special day. Something that made him feel afraid.

Moby (00:13:45):

<laugh>. Um, but also the world of meat. Like how, and maybe it's a rhetorical question, but it's so confusing. Like, how is kill, how is paying an underpaid immigrant worker below minimum wage to kill a defenseless vegan animal on your behalf? Like how is that masculine? I know. Like, eating a defenseless chicken, eating a defenseless baby cow. Like it's the least masculine thing anyone could possibly do. 'cause also in the process, men are given erectile dysfunction, as we know from eating meat and dairy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So it's like, if you look up the least ma like going into the girls' tent and picking a pink bike is way more macho than eating meat and dairy <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:14:29):

Yeah.

Billie (00:14:30):

You know what too is, I think it is also connected to, 'cause in my hometown, hunting is a big thing. And if you, you know, like you gotta go hunting, like that's part of being a man. And I think some people also coordinate with eating meat as to like hunting. Even though we know none of them will ever hunt. Yeah. They don't even know what hunting is. Half of them that are eating meat, um, they're so disconnected from their food. But I got that a lot too, as like, one reason why it was so manly to eat meat is we, as we hunt for it.

Moby (00:15:00):

But even that, okay, I know I'm stating the obvious and you guys, I assume agree with me. If you don't, we can edit it out or make it sound like you agree with me. <laugh>, um, hunting, so I used to have a house in upstate New York, and it was adjacent to a forest where two weeks outta the year people could hunt. And so you'd see these guys in like their fluorescent orange vests coming up from the city. And like, they would go up in a tree to like a comfortable blind, I think they're called. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then they would, they would have their high powered rifles and they would shoot a defenseless deer 300 yards away,

Lindsay (00:15:36):

Real tough.

Moby (00:15:37):

All they would do was pull, move their finger a quarter of an inch to kill a defenseless vegan animal. So again, how is that masculine? Like if someone, if some guy wrestled a grizzly bear and punched it in the face, I'd be like, wow, that's animal cruelty. But like, that's, that's tough. You know, like if you're gonna wrestle a hyena, that's kind of tough. Shooting a defenseless deer from 200 or 300 yards away when the deer doesn't even see you, smell you and has no chance. Like, I, I just can't figure out how. But I guess it's a bigger question. Sorry for rambling on. And maybe this is self-evident to everybody, but like this, this American masculine culture, which just involves like sick, obese men watching Fox News and like wondering why their penises don't work. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like these angry dudes, you know, eating bacon and complaining about the state of America when the truth is they just can't walk off a flight of stairs <laugh>.

Billie (00:16:44):

And what's crazy is like, it's all about being manly, but your manhood is what people say is down here and it's not even working

Lindsay (00:16:50):

Because of all the terrible things. Yeah. But also all the trauma that you're, 'cause it is a trauma, the toughening up process, even for little boys that maybe do end up becoming tough macho men. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> they're not tough because of like, some like survivalist instinct. They're tough because they've been socialized to be terrified not to put on a front like that. You know, like, if I don't do this performance, I'm in danger, or if I don't do this performance, I, I make myself vulnerable to ideologies that are very, very scary to me.

Moby (00:17:25):

And, and I, I do apologize for rambling on so much, but we don't get the chance to talk about this that often. The key word I think there's performance. Mm. Like, it's so much masculinity is around disingenuous performance. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and not the, the true strength is vulnerability. The true strength is honesty. Um, that's what requires actual courage. Like being a dude who watches ultimate fighting from your comfy chair and whatever. Like, I mean, I don't want to throw your brother under the bus, but being that type of dude, like that's not that, that that's fear that, that I will say that fear of constant hiding from your vulnerable self. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:18:08):

But also not to malign sitting in a comfy chair and watching men fight each other. 'cause I've done that a few times. And I have to say I kind of enjoyed myself.

Moby (00:18:15):

No, I, trust me, I love TV and comfy chairs, <laugh>, I'm, but

Billie (00:18:18):

Yeah. Men fighting each other, that's one thing. Yeah. But like I, when I go back home, I think one of the best parts of is like the nature and the animals. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And like the deer you see everywhere. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then it's like deer hunting season. And my brother and all of them like, go and kill deer. And it's so horrifying and sad. And my girlfriends back at home are all still very close. And they try not to talk about it, especially with like their husbands. And you can tell their husbands, I feel honestly I get more for being vegan than I do trans <laugh>. And I talk about this in my comedy because like literally the guys, all my girlfriend's husbands are uncomfortable with like, the meat and the hunting and stuff. Like, they try to be like, respectful, you know? Yeah.

Lindsay (00:19:00):

So, but I wanna know more about that. So where, so where did, where did you go to school? Did you go to school?

Billie (00:19:06):

Yeah. So I went to school in Indiana. I went to high school and then I did two years there in Indiana in college. And then I went to a, I went to school for journalism radio, TV and film. Cool. Um, in Chicago. And then my goal was to be a reporter, but to be a reporter, you have to start in a small market. Small town. And after my internships, I was told by the director that I was too feminine to be in a smaller market because I identified as a boy then. Um, so I was like, I gotta get to a bigger city so I can really just do my career but not be, um, discriminated against or shut down like in a small town. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:19:46):

So is that when you came to Los Angeles?

Billie (00:19:48):

Yeah, I came to Los Angeles, I think it was like 2021 and I transitioned soon after.

Lindsay (00:19:55):

When you got here? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. How was that for you? It

Billie (00:19:57):

Was, it was good. I, I think like the first time I decided I knew I wanted to transition, it was like, you know, like when you fall in love with someone and like you stay up late thinking about them and you just, it just makes you in such a good mood. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and gives you butterflies. Like, that's how I felt about my trans experience. Like all of these light bulbs went off. I realized so many things and it was a really exciting time until I did start transitioning and started hormones. And society was like, who the hell are you? What are you? Mm. And when society can't put you in a box, I felt very much like I was kicked in a corner so I couldn't get a job. You know, in LA you have to have a basically a headshot and a resume back in the day to be a server.

Billie (00:20:43):

So I would have this great resume 'cause I've done, uh, I was serving and service trainer for years through college. So they would send, they would bring me in for an interview 'cause I, everything on paper was so great. And then they would see me and they'd be like, what is this person <laugh>? So I did, couldn't get a job. And then I had to do sex work and like, when you are being shunned by society, but also doing sex work. And even though the guys' clients were very respectful and very nice to me, it just takes a toll on you. So I, I went through a rollercoaster of like, so much in love and everything made sense to, oh my God, did I make a mistake? Because, because it

Lindsay (00:21:20):

Was so hard at the beginning,

Billie (00:21:20):

It was so hard. But you,

Lindsay (00:21:22):

You did decide, you're like, okay, I have done the right thing. I'm going to continue down this path.

Billie (00:21:28):

Yeah. Well, what's crazy is the times that I was really, really depressed and suicidal because of my trans experience and just because of the reaction that I was getting from society, I didn't have a relationship with my dad Really. And my dad called me randomly and he was like, Hey, I just want you to know that he knew nothing about my transition. He was like, if you want me to walk you down the aisle as a woman, I will.

Moby (00:21:50):

Oh my God.

Billie (00:21:50):

And like, that call saved me. Yeah. Because it was, I

Moby (00:21:54):

Just got chills. Your dad's a saint. Yeah.

Billie (00:21:56):

Yeah. And it was such perfect timing and like no matter what society was telling me, no matter how hard it was to get a job and all the rejection, it was like that confirmation and validation that I got from him was really helped. And then it was just getting the funds to medically transition, which was very expensive. Yeah. And luckily I had amazing people in my life who are like angels and, um, I got to travel the world for part of my career and save up money and they matched half of that. Um, so I ended up spending a hundred thousand dollars on my medical transition. And that was like going to Thailand and getting my vagina and having the best surgeons in Beverly Hills do my face and my body. So I was very blessed with that. And I will say it's very weird to go from a place of people can't put you in a box and you're rejected to having all this work done. And then people literally holding the door open for me as a red carpet, just like rolled out in front of me. Like the amount of men lined up to go on dates with me. It was mind blowing. And it took a few years to adjust because I still was scared of everyone. I really couldn't even like look people in their eye. I was so afraid. And it took a, a while for me. And Ayahuasca was a really big one to help release all of that shame.

Moby (00:23:16):

Yeah. It's interesting to hear you call it Ayahuasca because whenever I hear people publicly talking about Ayahuasca experiences, they're like, oh, I did the medicine. I did the plant medicine. Yeah. Like we've, we've had some other people on the show who've referenced it and it's actually kind of refreshing. I guess the word ayahuasca is kind of like the word vegan. Like most people wanna say plant-based. Yeah. <laugh>. Some say vegan. Like some people are like, oh, I do plant medicine. Like, great. So it's just really nice to hear you be so out about that. Well, for me, I've, I've never done it, but I'm ayahuasca adjacent. Almost all my friends have. Yeah.

Billie (00:23:47):

Yeah. I mean, I don't see myself like going to jail because I say it out loud, I can that even happen? I know, right? Yeah. Like <laugh>, it's considered my religion is what you usually do before you do a ceremony. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But ayahuasca has a very ancient feminine energy. Hmm. And

Moby (00:24:05):

It, it's, I've always heard it called the divine mother. Yeah.

Billie (00:24:07):

Yes. And I needed that. I needed that feminine energy to, um, really hold space for me. Hmm. And that's what I felt the entire time I did. It was just like someone really holding space and literally pulling out the shame, uh, that I was just holding onto. And that was holding me back from being who I am.

Moby (00:24:27):

I think you've just encouraged Lindsay to go do

Lindsay (00:24:29):

That <laugh>. I'm like literally thinking, what was that guy's email? I'm gonna email him as soon as I get home. <laugh>,

Billie (00:24:33):

I never pushed on anyone. You have to be called for it. Yeah. But it helped me a lot.

Moby (00:24:38):

So can I get on a soapbox for a second? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> by all means. And I'm

Lindsay (00:24:43):

Gonna get a beverage for this

Moby (00:24:43):

Because Okay. And I'm gonna <laugh> it's something, it's something hearing your story especially Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it's anti-trans sentiment on the part of public figures has something that for the longest time I'm so confused by. Confused and just like, kind of horrified. And I'm gonna name like JK Rowling. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, Dave Chappelle. If nothing like, I just, the first question I have is they look at the world, all the things going on in the world, why are you focusing on trans issues? Like, at the very least, if they have a problem with trans people say nothing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> just say like, okay, maybe JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle should just say, I don't understand your experience. There's something about it that I find unfamiliar and foreign, but I respect what you're going through and I'm gonna keep my opinions to myself. Like, why is that that the opinion they feel ne that they need to share with the world? I'm, I've been so confused by this. Um, and I can't even imagine, I mean, 'cause Lindsay's been very active in the trans community, but as a trans woman, how, how do you respond to that? I don't want, I'm not trying to like start a flame more between you and JK Rowling or Dave Chappelle, but I just, I just as a, as a cisgendered man, I've been kind of baff horrified and baffled by the fact that that's the hill they're choosing to die on. Mm-Hmm.

Billie (00:26:02):

<affirmative>. Yeah. I, it's weird. It definitely is weird to like, especially as a comedian with Dave Chappelle. I have publicly talked about this. Like Dave, I think Dave Chappelle's brilliant. I like literally when I watch his comedy, like I look up to him in a lot of ways as a comedian. But then there are a lot of things about his comedy and, and what he chooses to talk about disappoint me. However, I know he's given resources to trans people. I know he even publicly talked about giving resources to a trans woman that like he was friends with, but now helps the kids, which he publicly talked about. And when he talked about the, um, trans vagina being like, impossible meat, I was like, that's so true, <laugh>. Because do you know how many guys would eat me out? And they'd be like, they, I mean, I obviously, when I date a guy, I will introduce them to a lot of vegan food, sometimes impossible meat.

Billie (00:26:54):

I just would hear guys be like, oh my God, this is like the real deal. This is so good. They would say this same thing about my vagina <laugh>. So I like, I think he's brilliant. I do feel a certain type of way of like, I do feel discriminated against and I do have like this negative feeling when someone publicly talks about it. But I also think it's very fear-based. And Jane Fonda would say like, if you are afraid of something, like you need to research and get to know it and sit down with people and interview them. It's, it's the same thing with war. It's like, it's so fear-based. So I try not to internalize it as much. And also just knowing that like, they seem afraid, afraid of something that they don't really know much about. And all I can do is send them love. Yeah.

Moby (00:27:40):

I, I think that you have, that's a very enlightened, wonderful perspective. <laugh>. I'm just, if nothing else, just so confused. Like, if if they have questions about it, just keep it to themselves. Like why do it publicly? Like why that's, that's like it. Especially, I mean, JK rowing, like everybody, we love her books. She invented Harry Potter's Wizarding World. Good for her. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But like for her, why of all the things going on in the world, why is she going to be a social justice warrior around this? And I'm just, I, like I said, I'm just baffled by it.

Billie (00:28:15):

Yeah. Her for sure I am. But also I think with her it could be somewhat political and with politicians I get, because it's like, you know, we have our current president who is very protran rights and like amazing. But then you have the Republicans who are literally against trans people. And even whenever they first passed all these like bans on bathroom bills, I did a protest. I went to like North Carolina or South Carolina, it was years ago, I think maybe in 2018. And I, they had a huge Republican party and they would have country singers. And in between each country singer, they'd have a speaker. And they kept on saying over and over and over, these trans people are coming into our bathrooms and hurting our children. Ca there was not one case to prove that, but they were, it was like brainwashed. I was, they gave 'em out hot dogs, American flags, country music, and you see all these obese hillbillies just like screaming.

Billie (00:29:11):

Yeah. And people didn't know I was trans. I was, I'm cis assuming, and people assume that I'm cis. So I got to go in there and talk to these people. It always just, it just would blow my mind because they, none, none of them had proof. I would, I would try to be like on their side and ask like, do you remember the stories? Do you know any, do you have any proof? No. Yeah. So to me a lot of it is just, um, political. It's like, what can we do? It's like taking the, the person who's the most vulnerable. Mm-Hmm.

Moby (00:29:38):

<affirmative>. And also the most vulnerable with whom you have almost no contact. Like I remember years ago, Newt Gingrich went after welfare mothers. And I was like, my mom was a welfare mother. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Who are you talking? Bill Clinton's mom was a welfare mother who are, who are you talking about? <laugh>. Like, it's so, or like when people talk about, you know, undocumented immigrants and it's like, gimme an specific example. You know, like, or I mean, how many people at that rally apart from you, how many of them had ever met a trans person? It's so easy to take that sort of inate powerlessness and rage and take all your problems and blame it on the person who's not there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Lindsay (00:30:16):

They rely a lot on dehumanization. I mean,

Moby (00:30:19):

It's what the Nazis did

Lindsay (00:30:19):

For so many people for Yes. That's the Nazis did with

Moby (00:30:22):

Jews. It, you know, just it's, yeah. And it's, we keep doing it. And obviously it's some sort of pernicious tribal thing that is driving so much of our sort of sectarian politics. Yeah.

Billie (00:30:33):

Mm-Hmm.

Lindsay (00:30:33):

<affirmative>. It's sad.

Moby (00:30:34):

So you're wearing a sweatshirt that says vegan. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you've mentioned veganism a few times. We were excited to have you on for a bunch of reasons. Like, but for me, one of those reasons was you're being so outspoken as a vegan activist. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So when, when and how and where did this start?

Billie (00:30:53):

Um, it started for health reasons. I was traveling a lot and going to a lot of different countries and I had stomach issues and I was blaming it on the travel and going to different countries. But my girlfriend at the time, she was like, you always have stomach problems. Like you should just go to the doctor and get tested. So I went to the doctor and got tested for like an allergy test and it came back that my body could not process pork and egg, which is crazy because I literally grew up on eggs and bacon, eggs and sausage every day as a child. And that was my favorite breakfast. That's just what I was, you know, born and raised to do. So my doctor said, go vegan for 30 days, take out everything that you can, a whole based diet and let's see what happens. And that was 15 years ago.

Lindsay (00:31:39):

You just stayed. You were like, at the end of the 30 days, you're like, you know what? Feel, and obviously

Moby (00:31:43):

I feel she's expanded to more than health stuff. Yeah,

Billie (00:31:45):

Yeah. And she gave me documentaries. She was really smart. She's actually from Indiana, but this doctor did, but she was in Pasadena. Yeah. She was a more natural, uh, healing doctor. And

Moby (00:31:55):

When we're done, I'd love to get her

Lindsay (00:31:57):

Info. Yeah, me too

Billie (00:31:58):

Too. Yeah. Yeah. So she said, go vegan, um, for 30 days, watch these documentaries. This will help you stay vegan for 30 days. And then I was like blown away by like how good I felt and like how much energy and like my stomach problems went away. Wow. And then also my skin, like, just everything was so good.

Moby (00:32:15):

You do have beautiful skin.

Billie (00:32:17):

Thank

Moby (00:32:17):

You. I mean, you're beautiful woman.

Lindsay (00:32:18):

Thanks. Veganism. <laugh>. But you did really great skin.

Billie (00:32:21):

Thank you. But yeah, once you do go vegan. And then I started watching even more documentaries and I've always been an animal lover, but then I really got into like how like factory farming and how we treat these animals and it just broke my heart. And so that really encouraged me to stay because here's the thing is like, yeah, my stomach might hurt if I eat it, but it's because of the love for animals and what they do to animals is a reason why I'm still vegan.

Lindsay (00:32:45):

That's amazing. Yeah. And you are so outspoken. I feel like a lot of people are like, eh, it's my diet. I don't want to, you know, ruffle feathers. But you've chosen to make it. I mean, it's part of your, the face of all the things that you do. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Did you, was that like a conscious decision or were you just like, this is how I feel and I'm gonna talk about it?

Billie (00:33:05):

Well, I love cooking. Food is like my love language. Like, I love just having friends over and cooking for them. And I love the challenge of making stuff that are, that's vegan and my friends loving it and enjoying it. I think the most powerful things that we can do to help save this planet is, is what we do with our hands and like what we shop for, buy food wise and what we cook with. Um, so I just try to educate people when, uh, if when I can. I've just also never been the person to like shut up and sit back. Like, I don't know, like if someone is mistreated at a job, I will speak up even if I get fired, if I'm feeling like something is not right. Like, for instance, I think that there is some issues at the Laugh Factory. There's not a lot of trans people that are considered past there. And I'm having issues with the owner. Hmm. The right thing to do is just shut up and continue about my day so I can, you know, have a successful comedy career. But I'm planning a protest. Like I will not just set back why someone doesn't allow the same opportunities for trans comedians, especially when there's very few of us. And I will not just sit back and shut up when our planet is dying and the animals and the life on the planet is dying. I will scream.

Moby (00:34:22):

I mean that's a huge part of what Lindsay and I both try to work on on a daily basis. You know, we live in this culture especially, and I'm getting on my soapbox again, <laugh>. Okay. Like, I'll walk by a mall and I'll see pictures of celebrities who are worth $500 million promoting garbage so they can make more money. And I'm like, the world doesn't need this. The world doesn't need caution. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> a sort of expedient, cautious approach to maintaining this terrible status quo. Like the world needs bravery and people standing up for their principles and standing up for their beliefs. And it's so dis like the number of public figures and entertainers who just seem to sort of like go along to get along. And it's like, it's so inspiring when you meet people who reject that and sure. It, it, it can make the world a lonely place.

Moby (00:35:13):

It can isolate us from, you know, and prevent us from getting a lot of work opportunities. It's definitely not easy, but to me there's like a nobility hist history doesn't reward or celebrate the people who perpetuate the terrible status quo. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it's funny. So everyone looks back at history and they're all like, oh, Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi, Jane Goodall, Rosa Parks, like this list of amazing people who bucked the system, but then those same people in their daily lives accommodate the system. And it's so dis it's just, it's a very, especially in Los Angeles, it's very discouraging to see how many people are, so their criteria for assessing change or speaking out, is it going to hurt their career? How's it gonna help their, you know, their Q rating is their IMDB star meter gonna go down as a result of it. It's just that caution is really depressing. Yeah.

Billie (00:36:05):

Well I've always known that my life is gonna be difficult and challenging and even through all of the healing and the ceremonies and the therapy, I'm not meant to like live this like little quiet norm life. I'm just not. And yeah, sometimes it does get lonely for sure. But I think I'm really sitting here on planet Earth to be of service and to help save this planet. So yeah, I'm just gonna continue doing what I have to do. You know, I think the most cis norm thing that I want in life is a child, which is I'm gonna adopt. And that's something that I can't wait to happen.

Moby (00:36:40):

Like a human baby.

Billie (00:36:42):

A human baby. <laugh>. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> a human baby. Can't wait. That's

Lindsay (00:36:45):

A beautiful thing.

Billie (00:36:45):

Yeah.

Lindsay (00:36:46):

I love that. I guess I'm thinking about your platform and your voice that you've created, and one of the things that really built this platform was you deciding to be on Vanderpump. What was that like? So

Moby (00:37:01):

Tell me, okay, can I qualify that?

Lindsay (00:37:02):

Yes, absolutely. With a

Billie (00:37:03):

Question.

Moby (00:37:04):

Yeah. So Lindsay mentioned that you had been on this show called Vanderpump Rules. And I'm gonna be, I'm embarrassed to admit this, I don't know what that is, but can you guys explain to me what it is? <laugh>? I thought it was on that guy from Dawson's Creek.

Billie (00:37:18):

What? No,

Moby (00:37:18):

James VanDerBeek. I

Lindsay (00:37:20):

Oh, I see how you got there. Um, no, it's not that at all. Okay.

Billie (00:37:24):

Yeah. It's a spinoff from The Housewives and it's about a group of, originally it started as a group of friends, um, like the staff of a restaurant, like people who served and bartended and hosted and also about the owners who was also a housewife. And then it just now is like, just this crazy, it's very dramatic. A lot of, I think, manufactured drama. So

Moby (00:37:47):

It's reality tv.

Billie (00:37:48):

It's reality tv. Yes.

Moby (00:37:49):

Okay. I mean, I, I I am so ignorant. I know nothing, I apologize,

Lindsay (00:37:52):

But here's what I want. Okay. First of all, I wanna know how that came to be a thing in your life, but also I'm just dying to know how, what your experience was of like how these shoots go or like how scripted or not, or you know, 'cause they have to get a story out of that. Out of it. Yeah. Um, and it, as far as your contract goes, like do you say you'll do what they want you to do?

Billie (00:38:15):

Yeah. You are obligated. Okay. So it started, I was living stealth, which means I was not open now that I was trans. So once I did have all the surgeries and guys were lined up to date me, I was like, oh my God, I'm finally like the cool kid on the block. I'm gonna keep this. And at the time my therapist was like, you're a woman. Like everything about you as female, you don't have to tell anyone. So I went a long time not telling people that I was trans. And that got me into some really awful situations with men that I dated and just a lot of heartbreak. Mm. And so I decided I need to be open and proud of who I am. So I'm not attracting this fear. 'cause I literally had someone I dated who was transphobic and I didn't even know, like he later told me. And it was because a trans woman came into my restaurant and she was noticeably trans. And when she left, all my regulars, including the guy that I dated, just started going off about her. And I was like, oh my God, I'm literally hiding behind this. Assuming they were being

Moby (00:39:18):

Open about being transphobic. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> in Los Angeles in the 21st century.

Billie (00:39:24):

Bizarre. Yeah. This was like in 2018 I think, or 17. Whoa.

Lindsay (00:39:28):

Yeah.

Billie (00:39:28):

In Sherman Oak

Lindsay (00:39:29):

Two recent.

Billie (00:39:30):

Yeah. So I just felt very much like I needed to, to be open and vocal about what I was going through. And so I started blogging back in the day when like blogs were somewhat popular. And through that experience I got casted on Vanderpump. So it was multiple meetings with a production company. And

Moby (00:39:51):

So it was through your blog that they found out about?

Billie (00:39:53):

Well, through my blog I became like, talking about this and then like through mutual people that are producers who like, you need to check out this person. Mm. Like she needs to be, originally we were talking about doing a show. Obviously I couldn't join the Housewives 'cause I wasn't like a housewife or Rich <laugh>. And I knew the restaurant business very well. So they chose to, to put me at, sir. So I went through multiple meetings and then I met with Lisa Vanderpump. It was weird 'cause I went from owning a restaurant to hosting at a restaurant. So I was like, which is

Lindsay (00:40:24):

Like the highest position to like, I know the most entry.

Billie (00:40:27):

I know. I was like, should I be serving or maybe managing <laugh>? Um, but I did that. And like they have to, you have to train to really work there for the first few months, but then once you start filming, you really just have a call time.

Lindsay (00:40:40):

Wow. And you're actually working when they're shooting, right? Like those are real customers coming in from

Billie (00:40:46):

Yes. Sometimes. Wow. It just depends sometimes. Yeah. It is real customers. Um, which is challenging too, because like, you have people standing around and people trying to like listen in while you're like dealing with drama and it's, and cameras are around. It's, it's very interesting. But yeah, it was, it was a crazy

Moby (00:41:04):

Time. Is the show still happening or, yeah.

Billie (00:41:07):

Okay.

Lindsay (00:41:07):

There's still, there's more that are gonna come out because I never really watched the show very much, but I've had a recent education because of that restaurant. And my friend was like, if you don't know, you gotta know. Because, you know, there's like super duper, I mean, you know better than anyone, the super fans. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, um, of the show. And at around the time that I was learning about the show and what it was and who all the characters were was when "Scandoval" happened. And then there were paparazzi up and down the street every single day for like, months. It happened Was at

Moby (00:41:41):

The restaurant By your house.

Lindsay (00:41:42):

Yeah. And I was like, I know who that is. <laugh> Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But all, like, all the stuff that was happening, I was like, this is so close to me. And this is so crazy. But you must have, I mean, were you doing the show at that time?

Billie (00:41:55):

So I took

Moby (00:41:56):

What? Did so what?

Lindsay (00:41:57):

Oh, you, you don't know what "Scandoval" is. It's a

Moby (00:41:59):

I know that the, the singer from Mazzy Star was Hope Sandoval

Lindsay (00:42:03):

<laugh>. Well this is about, it's Tom, right? Yeah. Tom Sandoval is a character on the show and has been since the beginning. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And there's been how many seasons?

Billie (00:42:11):

I think 11 is now like

Lindsay (00:42:13):

A lot. There's a lot of the show. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So many hours of the show exist. Anyway, he cheated on his girlfriend that he lived with, that everyone loved with another girl from the show. And people lost their minds. I was reading about it on freaking CNN Yeah. It

Billie (00:42:27):

Was crazy.

Lindsay (00:42:28):

Like it was bananas. So what was that like for, I mean, were you involved in that in any way, by

Moby (00:42:34):

The way? Yes. I'm just having a little bit of sort of cognitive dissonance that we're talking about reality tv, but a I have no idea what you're talking about. It's a scandal. I'm wondering if I should go back and rewatch 11 Seasons. <laugh> of Vanderpump Rules.

Lindsay (00:42:49):

I, I will say Lisa Vanderpump is a huge animal lover. Rescues puppies has a company called Vander Pup. Oh, cute. Okay. And is a dog rescue. So company. So, you know, there's, there's, there's connection there. However,

Billie (00:43:01):

I did go to an event of her since she was serving me. I know. I was like, this is not okay.

Moby (00:43:06):

That disconnect of so

Billie (00:43:08):

Weird. It's insane. I don't know, maybe now, but this was back in the day when I was filming. So I was contracted to film two seasons and I did two seasons, six and seven, and then the network. And I would, did not agree on like, what I would want my storyline to be. Um, so I stepped back and I did not do reality. I wouldn't even sign a release form with them because I was, Tom and Ariana became like my family. They were the first friends that I had through the experience. And then when the cameras are down, a lot of people do not hang out like they do on the cameras. It's just a job. But Tom and Ariana, we would hang out with without the cameras. We became like real friends. Then we started spending holidays together. And then they even talked about like helping me be a mother someday.

Billie (00:43:55):

Mm. Like it was real family. I spent more time with them than I did my actual family. And I fell in love and had this relationship in Indiana where I'm from. So I had an apartment back there to see if that relationship could work. 'cause he was a best friend since the sixth grade. During that time, Tom was cheating. So I didn't really get to experience or like witness it because I was gone all the time. But when I was here, I did notice a couple things that happened with this girl that he cheated with. I wasn't surprised because him and him, Ariana weren't, we called them mom and dad, but they were, were like, there was no sexual energy really. Mm. It was very, um, platonic and, and somewhat toxic. So I don't know, I just seemed like they would eventually break up or like something would happen.

Billie (00:44:42):

So when the scandal happened, when the breakup did happen, it completely divided our entire family, all of our mutual friends. And I decided to not talk to Tom out of respect with Ariana for six weeks. I was by Ariana's side and it felt like a death in the family. And then I got a call from a mutual friend that I introduced to Tom, who is now his band manager. And he said, please talk to Tom. He's not doing well. Like, we're truly afraid of his mental health and he's suicidal. So I texted Ariana, I was like, Hey, I'm gonna go and spend the weekend at your house with a dog. And Tom, I just wanna give you the heads up. And she was like, I love you, I hate him. And that was it. So I did, I went and stayed the weekend to be with him and to help him.

Billie (00:45:29):

He literally had no one, no friends. And the paparazzi saw me leaving and us leaving the house a lot. And so they assumed I was sleeping with him and posted that. And then she unfollowed me and blocked me. No. And all of my, uh, mutual friends that I had with her unfollowed me. I'm sorry. No. And it was like a really, really, really awful time. And I was followed by the paparazzi for like, almost two months straight. And everyone would just hated me. And they were so mean to me. And there was so much transphobic hate and all I was doing was just trying to save a friend. Like yeah. They, at the end of the day, they were both my family and I actually was closer with Tom only because he would go out and party more. And Ariana didn't, him and I would both sneak off and smoke a cigarette.

Billie (00:46:14):

Like we were very Midwest, just country vibes together. <laugh>. But yeah, it was, it was a really challenging time, but was really happy that I got him in a better place. And he was sober for like a year. And, but anyway, so they asked me, I was with him all the time and no one else was. And so the cameras started back up for season 11 and they have this meeting with you at the beginning of each season. Like, what are you doing? What's going on? And obviously if you read the tabloids, you know that he was, him and I were together all the time. So I said, I'm willing to film if, if it helps him. And that's what I did. I just, I said no a lot because I had my comedy shows and with reality TV you get the call time the night before.

Billie (00:46:58):

And with comedy you book out in advance. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So as I'm building this comedy career, I would never cancel for a reality show that doesn't care about me or pay me. So I would wouldn't sign any kind of agreement besides a general release form. And I just said yes to Tom whenever he asked me. But it just is weird. 'cause if you don't do what they say, it's like at the beginning of the season, they can look at you in the eyes and they can compliment you. It's very mean, girl, high school vibes. It's like, oh, you're cool. We like you. And then the second you cancel or the second you say no to a shoot or the second you do something that's not like on their agenda or their storyboard, it's like they stop looking at you. They won't even say hi to you. It's so gross. And it's,

Moby (00:47:41):

Wait, hold on a sec. So you're implying <laugh> that the people in the world of network TV and they might be disingenuous <laugh>. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:47:52):

Especially in reality

Moby (00:47:53):

Television here in Los Angeles.

Billie (00:47:55):

Yeah. They're producers. I mean, the crew, it's amazing. I love the crew. It was so nice to see them again. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> such fantastic crew. But the producers are just like evil, like high school gross energy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Moby (00:48:09):

So is is the show all wrapped up or is it still ongoing?

Billie (00:48:13):

It's wrapped up. I think it starts filming again in, in the summer or something. So

Moby (00:48:17):

11, season 11 that you were on, it's

Lindsay (00:48:19):

Out or just

Billie (00:48:20):

It's out. I think it's too much. At two episodes left. I haven't watched any of it. I'm getting feedback from people who watch it, but I refuse to watch it and it's triggering.

Lindsay (00:48:30):

I guess the thing that I am fine to be, I

Moby (00:48:32):

Think Lindsay has fan questions. No,

Lindsay (00:48:34):

Well, it's more about like,

Moby (00:48:35):

Like going to Comic-Con Mm-Hmm.

Lindsay (00:48:37):

<affirmative>. Yeah. This is exactly what Comic-Con is. Like. I would be wearing a costume of some sort, but I don't know what, like dressed up like Lisa <laugh>. Um, I wonder what it was like, what the emotional experience. I mean, obviously this situation was hard with the drama and the heightened emotion of that terrible situation that happened. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But what it's like to suddenly be kind of thrust into the public eye in that way. Like what effect that had on you or is having on you, you know?

Billie (00:49:09):

Yeah. It was, um, it was, I think it was just like the most just being hated so much. Like even my friends would be like, oh my God, don't go on TikTok. Like, you're so hated. Or like Reddit and stuff. Just a lot of nasty comments. But at the end of the day, like, I literally like was there during the darkest times for a friend and I have no regrets. So. Good. That's great.

Moby (00:49:35):

Yeah. Going back, I mean like principles are so inspiring and we do live in this time where like, again, people's criteria for assessing everything is like, okay, is this going to help me? Is this going to help my career? Is this going to be the easiest way to accommodate this terrible world in which we live? As opposed to adhering to principles? Like yeah, it's lonely and it hurts, but it's noble. Mm.

Billie (00:49:57):

Yeah. Exactly.

Moby (00:49:58):

So kudos, kudos to you for choosing principles over

Lindsay (00:50:02):

Comfort.

Moby (00:50:03):

Expediency. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:50:04):

Ease. Yeah. Mm-Hmm.

Moby (00:50:04):

<affirmative> it does lead me. Um, I want, I wanna talk about comedy at some point. Oh,

Lindsay (00:50:09):

Me too. That's what I wanna talk about next too. Yeah. Okay. So at some point you said

Moby (00:50:14):

I'm funny.

Lindsay (00:50:16):

Well, obviously you probably always had a great sense of humor, but to me, standup comedy is the most terrifying thing of not you're putting yourself out there. You're alone on a stage with only a microphone and with words that you've written. Yeah. Uh, how, how did you, how did this journey start for you?

Billie (00:50:37):

I never in my life dreamed that I would be doing standup comedy. However, my friends back at home were like, oh, you're always been funny. Like on reality tv I never was funny. Like they never got a funny side of me, like my edits were never funny. So sometimes people are like, what? I sold a half hour pilot comedy to A, B, C, Disney before the strike. And it was about my life as a trans woman going back home and taking over my family's dairy farm and I'm vegan. And it was a love story type of thing. It was called Dairy Queen, um,

Moby (00:51:13):

<laugh>. Solid title. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:51:14):

That's really good. I know. I wish it, I wanna watch this show so bad.

Billie (00:51:17):

I know. It was, it was insane.

Moby (00:51:19):

I mean, the elevator pitch is just those two words. Yeah. Dairy.

Lindsay (00:51:22):

Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah.

Billie (00:51:24):

Um, it was so cute. But, um, through that experience, my team was like, well, if you're gonna be writing and possibly starring in a comedy, you should probably take some comedy courses. Mm. So I signed up for this pretty funny woman comedy course that my writing partner at the time recommended. And yeah, I had no idea what to expect. I've always heard that I was really good at timing. Like natural timing is what I've had a couple

Lindsay (00:51:49):

That's, you can't really teach that. Yeah.

Billie (00:51:50):

<laugh>. That's what I had a couple coaches tell me back in the day. Like friends that were comedy coaches or, um, acting coaches. And so yeah, my teacher, she's like, yo, your timing, your point of view is so important. And, um, there were a couple times I wanted to quit 'cause it is so scary. And, um, luckily the, the girls in the class and the teacher was like, no, you're not. And I got a full scholarship to continue taking her classes 'cause she believed in me. And then I just started doing shows and then I was getting booked and then I was getting rebooked and I would get on these shows still, like these massive lineups and like, and I keep on getting back. So it's working. And now I'm going on tour in June. I'm doing a huge pride tour.

Lindsay (00:52:37):

That's so fun. Where all will you go? Is it just the states?

Billie (00:52:41):

Just the states. But we're, we're doing a crazy amount. I'll have a list and announcement out soon. Um, but it's called The Big Happy Comedy Tour and it's, it's, uh, the United States first comedy tour. Um, and I'm co-producing it with, uh, Jade Kata. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, who I love and adore. Super

Moby (00:53:02):

Exciting and new timing. It reminds me, it does have a Midwest quality to it. Like there is a sort of, for some reason when I was watching some of your stuff online, this might sound strange, but it had a, it was like, Tig Notaro meets Bob Newhart <laugh>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Lindsay (00:53:17):

<laugh>

Moby (00:53:18):

Like a sort of very, like, you, you're letting the audience come to the same conclusions that you are. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which I really, as opposed to like drum rolls and like forcing the audience to agree with your perspective. Like you're sort of like trusting their intelligence to understand the sort of the subtext of what you're saying.

Billie (00:53:39):

Yeah. And like, I've probably been doing it like a year and a half now and it's still really scary. Like, I feel like that feeling will never go away, but I'm starting to enjoy it now. Mm. Like, and here's the thing is comedy. It's like the highs are really high and the lows are really low. Like, there are days where I'm so happy and excited and like the audience really gets it. And like, it's such a fun show. And then there are days where I'm like, I wanna crawl on a hole and die. Yeah. Like, what am I doing? But yeah. And some of my jokes I literally get from like, I have this joke that's a dick confusion joke, and it's basically to show that straight cis men can be confused that they're attracted to me. And so I have this whole bit about their confused dick. And it was birthed because I like did a show in La Jolla and that is a military base. And it was a lot of men that were very uncomfortable with my jokes. And instead of just like, bombing and like, not addressing that. 'cause your goal as a comedian, no matter who your audience is, you want them to feel comfortable. You want them to have a good time. 'cause then you have a good time. So I, you know, create really fun jokes to make people feel comfortable about my trans experience. Mm. Which is cool. Yeah,

Lindsay (00:54:54):

That's great. I'm sure, and I'm sure there's a lot of people, like there's a, the term that you mentioned earlier that I think a lot of people don't generally know about how comedy clubs work, which is when you get passed Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which, how do you describe getting passed at a comedy club?

Billie (00:55:08):

So you, there's two different ways you can go into a comedy club. You can start working at the door and like start working as a staff and like, you know, work there for years and like, continue going up and get past like, over time. Or you can go on shows that are produced, which is like most shows that I go on, they're produced by outside producers or independent producers. Um, so to get past, it's a, it is a very lengthy process, but because I have so many different projects and a career as a producer and a writer, it's very difficult for me to just like, spend a full time, you know, trying to go through that process. Um, but so it's easy to just, you know, like basically get on these shows and then get asked back. However, what I came to with the Laugh Factory is I was on a Purdue show and he kicked me off the owner of

Lindsay (00:56:03):

A produced show,

Billie (00:56:04):

Of a Purdue show. And he said, just you, just me. And he said I needed to be passed, even though I had friends that haven't been passed on produced shows all the time. So I was like, that's really weird. And um, so I reached out to the booker and who previously said she was gonna develop me forever, and she, they never did, but she said it had something to do with the owner. So then when I found out, the owner, um, kicked me off. I went to a mic and then did like a three minute mic for him.

Moby (00:56:33):

When you say a mic, that means an open mic? Yeah. Okay.

Billie (00:56:36):

And I did three minutes and they said, come back again, but it needs to be clean. And I'm like, clean. It's a nightclub. Like, yeah. It's not even like I'm doing a late night show or tv. And also it just bugs me whenever you can't really talk about a or vagina or a dick when I've had all of them <laugh> and like, that's my trans experience. And like to tell a trans woman that it needs to be clean just annoys me because nothing about my experience has been so clean. Like even like having sex work, like what am I talk about my vagina, like it's flowers, <laugh> that I got in Thailand. Like I just,

Moby (00:57:13):

And and also I haven't been to that many standup shows, but the, okay. I don't wanna overgeneralize, but the ones I've been to, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, oftentimes the men are like incredibly homophobic and like incredibly sexist,

Billie (00:57:29):

Misogynist and Oh really? My

Moby (00:57:31):

God. God. And like, and so it's, it seems like you're describing a, a severe double standard. Yeah. So like, like the men can talk about whatever they want to talk about, but somehow your standard, you're held to a different standard. So I'm not surprised that you're having a boycott of this Laugh Factory

Billie (00:57:47):

Guy <laugh>. Yes. I have literally have guy friends or because they're not necessarily friends, but like in the industry, they were in reality tv, they're now comedians. They go up weekly at the Laugh Factory and they talk about pedophiles rape children. Like it's the grossest things that you could actually talk about. They do and they get away with it. But through my experience of being kicked off that show, I've had a lot of women message me and say, I talked about my vagina and I was told not to come back to the Laugh Factory. So this very old cis dude is literally uncomfortable with lady bodies. Lady bodies <laugh> and uncomfortable with my trans experience to the point that I can't get past. I mean, the that I went through, I was, I was basically like, come to this mic, we'll give you six minutes.

Billie (00:58:35):

When I went and did six minutes, they told me I didn't have to be as clean. The second I started talking about my previous dick, they're like, light. I didn't even get a full six minutes. Then they, they lit you. Yeah. And then they told me I wasn't guaranteed a mic when I came back. The whole process was just a runaround because they can't tell me that the owner said they're not comfortable with your trans experience. And I had a friend who had a conversation and, and um, hung out with the owner and he was offended by some of her jokes that weren't even about lady parts or the trans experience. So I know this guy is very conservative. Hmm. Um, and then also I've been doing my research because if I'm gonna plan a protest and get the local news involved, I'm gonna make sure I know what's going on. And there are very, very little, um, trans people like maybe they performed once, but was never passed. And a lot of them don't even get the opportunity to go through the process of being passed. Um, so

Moby (00:59:29):

Yeah, I mean, show biz for the longest time was egregiously misogynistic and with egregious double standards. So I'm not surprised that there's this old guy who's still trying to maintain, maintain

Billie (00:59:43):

Exactly.

Moby (00:59:44):

You know, he, he probably came up in the sixties and seventies when you could get away with anything.

Billie (00:59:48):

Yeah. I like, I, um, there's this trans comic in New York who I love and she's like, oh girl. A lot of the club owners are like that. She's like, we just have to wait for them to die off.

Lindsay (00:59:57):

Oh my God.

Billie (00:59:59):

And I'm like, what? Like, but it's just what I've learned. 'cause I've always been an activist and through my trans experience being an activist, that's one reason why I started Vanderpump. 'cause I was like, oh, I didn't watch reality tv. I literally went from traveling the world doing ayahuasca ceremonies to reality TV and like, I had no idea what I was really getting into. But I, my intention was, let's show America that trans women are worthy of jobs. Hmm. Because of our unemployment rate was so high. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> of course I got sucked into the dramas. Like, you know, you lose your intention on a lot of things. Um, but I just, I knew that I had to be an activist. I knew I had to speak up. And I feel with comedy, I'm like, wow, I get to do that. And it's not necessarily about my trauma.

Billie (01:00:47):

I get to like, make people laugh and they walk away. So many dudes would be like, oh my God. I'm like, I now know like, what it feels like in a way to be a trans woman or like what it feels like to, to like a trans woman. Like just guys are blown away by how comfortable they are after they leave my comedy set. And that's my intention. Yeah. It's like, let's really talk about the funny thing or the elephant in the room and let's make you laugh. And I just feel like it's so nice to, to work in comedy versus it being all based on trauma. And if someone's gonna get in the way of that, I'm not gonna let that happen. Nope. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:01:23):

Good for you. It's such a huge, it, it's an amazing service. Like as far as doing service. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> because I feel like there are so many issues that are so heavy and they just feel so heavy. And when you think about them, it's like, oh my God. But then having someone bring a little bit of lightness to it and a face to it and humanity and be able to like, laugh together, that is so bonding and I think opens people up to other experiences when you get inside enough for them to laugh. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like that is, that is such a, an amazing thing to offer as far as service.

Moby (01:01:59):

And I think there are a lot of people in the cis world who simply, they don't know how to respond. You know? And they're like, okay, I know. Like what's the, what's the appropriate? What questions are we allowed to ask? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like, what's the appropriate response to your trauma? Like, are we, are we allies? But do we want to be like virtue signaling allies? And comedy allows people to have unprompted reactions, honest reactions, and there's a bonding, almost like a solidarity that comes from that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So it is, it is, it's a wonderful form of service and activism.

Billie (01:02:32):

Yeah. Thank you for saying that. 'cause I do believe it's definitely being of service and there are days where like, I do not wanna like smile, let alone make someone laugh. So it can be very challenging to be of service in that way too. Yeah. So thank you for recognizing that.

Moby (01:02:51):

Um, so in the world of comedy, do you have any comedy inspirations or heroes?

Billie (01:02:56):

Um, okay. One, I'm really bad with names. I wish my, um, bestie Sammy and Co-host was here. 'cause she'd be like, I'll tell you what it is, <laugh>. But I used to always, and I still do love her. Um, Amy Schumer. I, I don't know why in the comedy world I get so much for saying that. Like, I'll be like, oh, I love Amy sch like her movies. Like, I feel pretty, I could literally watch over and over because it really helps,

Moby (01:03:19):

Helps me the end of train wreck with a little bit of a train wreck. Yeah. Yeah. I really like, so I, I, did I ever tell you this funny story about my friend Damien's wedding? No.

Billie (01:03:27):

No.

Moby (01:03:28):

So

Billie (01:03:28):

I'm like, no, but I don't even,

Lindsay (01:03:29):

I have not heard that one.

Moby (01:03:30):

So the years 2000 and something, and I had this house in upstate New York adjacent to where the bags went hunting <laugh>. And my friend Damien was getting married. So I let him use my house to get married. And he, he and I were a couple years ago going through the photos from the wedding. And the one of the caterers was Amy Schumer. And I realized I had this history of having people, like having caterers like, like I'm like the stepping stone for caterers. 'cause like Bridget Everett was also one of the caterers. Um, and I had a party a couple years before that and the caterers were the scissor sisters before they became successful. So. Wow. I think that is

Billie (01:04:10):

So we all need a cater

Moby (01:04:11):

The key to success. Yeah. Like

Lindsay (01:04:13):

Let's go cater, let's go cater for Moby parties. Yeah. Um, <laugh>.

Moby (01:04:17):

So, but

Lindsay (01:04:18):

Yeah, actually I think I did cater a party that you were at once. Oh,

Moby (01:04:20):

You did <laugh>. That's right. At, um, at Jeff Bezos's house. Wasn't

Lindsay (01:04:25):

It? Isn't that a Jeff Bezos house? I don't remember. But St. Vincent was there and, and so was, so many people were there and I was like, this is the craziest thing I've ever, that's ever happened to me. Yeah.

Moby (01:04:35):

We had just met,

Lindsay (01:04:35):

It was for Rooney and Rooney's manager. It was Rooney's at manager's

Moby (01:04:39):

House. Yeah. Okay. Why did I think it was at Jeff Bees was his house. But in any case, yeah, I do remember that. Yeah. That was crazy. You were with Laura? Yeah. Okay. So Amy Schumer. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Anybody? I mean, I don't wanna put you on the spot, but,

Billie (01:04:51):

Um, no, there, she's just someone like I, there's like a few of them, but I'm just so bad with names. One of them is like this Southern charm or Tennessee woman, older woman. Her name's Leanne Something

Moby (01:05:04):

Rimes.

Billie (01:05:05):

No. <laugh>

Lindsay (01:05:06):

Though. She is notoriously hilarious. Yeah.

Billie (01:05:08):

Yeah. Oh. Um, but yeah, I just, uh, I, here's the thing too. It's like I go to comedy shows obviously, but I tr and I like even will go just to support friends. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it's nice 'cause you get inspired and stuff, but I try not to like, watch too much of it because of

Lindsay (01:05:27):

Other people's sets. Yeah.

Billie (01:05:29):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and like, just like, I don't wanna be influenced, I wanna keep my own thing. Like, for instance, I like to sit down on the stool. There's a reason why the stool's there. Sometimes when I sit down, I'm very grounded. It's, I'm more like, I can have a conversation with the audience. I just feel it. To me it makes people feel more comfortable immediately. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> I've been told by my teacher, I've been told by people, I've been told that the laugh, the guy who owns the Laugh Factory doesn't like when people sit down. Like there's like these little things, right? <laugh>. But I've been told like, um, to not sit down. And I do believe that you should never use it like, as a crutch where like, if you stand up, there's gonna be, you know, you can't do it. Um, so I do try to like stand up once in a while to like change it up. But,

Moby (01:06:10):

But also that idea, I mean like, it's funny how easy it is to disprove that. Like, the idea that you should never do something. Like no one's doing it. Like, it's worth remembering in 1989, alternative rock bands weren't successful. And if you were to, you know, go to a a, a music club, they'd be like, oh, you gotta play heavy metal <laugh>. Then along comes Nirvana, heavy metal dyes, you know, like, um, just time and time again. The next thing was sort of rejected as the thing you don't do. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I mean, I remember when hip hop started, same thing. They were like, wait, people are just talking over other people's records that'll never connect. So that weird idea of like Yeah. Buying into an approach and saying, well you, you have to do it this way. You can't do it this way. So

Billie (01:06:58):

Yeah. Don't tell me I can't do something. 'cause then I end up doing it <laugh>

Moby (01:07:01):

Bagels the same way.

Lindsay (01:07:03):

Yep. Very true. Very, very true. Um,

Moby (01:07:05):

Bagels, like, you tell me I can't eat watermelon. I tell you I'm gonna eat water.

Lindsay (01:07:09):

Ate a whole watermelon rind and, well, not the whole watermelon, but like the rind, she didn't retire

Moby (01:07:13):

14 pound watermelon yesterday.

Lindsay (01:07:15):

No, she didn't. She ate the rind of watermelon and we were all shocked. Anyway. You wrote a book.

Billie (01:07:20):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Lindsay (01:07:21):

What's, what's the book about?

Billie (01:07:23):

It's called Why Are You So Sensitive? Um, and yeah, Lindsay. Yeah, because

Lindsay (01:07:29):

I was born that one.

Billie (01:07:31):

Um, it's published by Andrews McMeel and Simon and Schuster. And, um, it just discusses about like, um, microaggressions and I write it, but also I produced it as in like their multiple contributors. There's a lot of contributors from all different walks of life. So if you're Jewish, you're someone of color you can identify with this book. And, um, and then I also teamed up with this specialist who, um, she's a doctor in microaggressions. She works with microaggressions and she chimes in and, and gives a little bit of, um, feedback on like the best way to approach. And I even talk about how like, I was at fault for giving a microaggression. Like mental health is a very serious thing. Back in the day I was protesting for global warming. It was like on somewhere in West Hollywood. And my girlfriend, who's a model, we were pro, we saw each other protesting.

Billie (01:08:27):

So we said hi. And she's like, yeah, I'm, she's like, I love my products, but I love my planet. You know, like she was basically just telling me like, you know, she's a model and she's like known for like this, this image and these products, but she also loves her planet and she has to keep the balance. And I was like, yeah, I know. We're, it's like, we're so bipolar and she's actually bipolar and an activist. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And like, I just wanted to kick myself whenever I said that. And it's like these little things that you, like, sometimes even the people wanna just relate with you. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> my biggest microaggression that I've received from like, fans and people with Vander pom posts. Wait a minute. Like, you look better than me and I'm a real woman. Ooh. I know. Like <laugh>, they're disguised as compliments. Like, um, so it's just, it's it's a really great book of just information that I feel like a lot of people need to read, um, that way. So we can just have a more kinder, uh, place. Like Planet Lindsay

Moby (01:09:29):

Needs to read that. She's just always microaggression in me. <laugh>

Lindsay (01:09:33):

<laugh>, I only micro-aggress Moby.

Moby (01:09:35):

She's like, you only sort of look like Gollum today. I

Lindsay (01:09:38):

Would never, I always get mad at you when you say the Gollum thing.

Moby (01:09:42):

I do look like Gollum.

Lindsay (01:09:42):

Oh, my God. Always stop. You're microaggression yourself. Not cool. Don't talk to my friend that way. Um, <laugh>,

Moby (01:09:51):

I'm not trying to make light of your book, I'm just an idiot. Um,

Billie (01:09:54):

No, no, it's,

Lindsay (01:09:55):

I love that. I love the sound of that book because then also there are people in my life who are micro aggressors and they probably won't read a book like this. But if I read a book like this, I can work in ways to talk to them about it more effectively. You know, like if I have a broader understanding of what it means, like, and I'm sure everyone has something to learn from a book like that, even if you are super careful and super tuned in. Like, there's always some the, everyone has some sort of blinders, you know? So, yeah.

Moby (01:10:27):

Question. Um, in the world of microaggression, is there a clear-ish or not distinction between intentional microaggression and accidental microaggression? Like when you said to your friend, like, oh, our response to like environmentalism is bipolar. Obviously you weren't trying to hurt her. Like it was an right, it was inadvertent microaggression.

Billie (01:10:51):

Yeah. That

Moby (01:10:52):

Why, as opposed to like, Lindsay, you're on there sometimes with some people. We know you're on the receiving end of kind of either pathological or intentional microaggressions.

Lindsay (01:11:01):

Yeah. Where like the intention would be to like, they want you make someone feel that they want you to suffer. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yes. Exactly.

Billie (01:11:07):

Yeah. So the book is for people that are good people and that are innocent and do it for mistakes. And then it's also for people that are,

Lindsay (01:11:15):

<laugh> like,

Billie (01:11:17):

Great. I think, um, 'cause I've definitely done things where I'm like, the intention wasn't to be an. And I didn't mean it in that way, but I learned the hard way. And I'm hoping that this book will help people not learn the hard way. Um, and it's also a really cute book. It's easy read. Um, the graphic designer's really cool. And it can be like a really fun gift too. It it's, it's really cute. And, um, I just love, it was years, two years of tons of emails, a lot of work. But it's nice to be paid for something that I feel is being of service to Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because in the comedy world, you don't make a lot of money. Like <laugh> you do shows for like 20 bucks. I mean, going on tour, you definitely, it helps you make money. So that's nice. But it is, I'm very grateful that I got to pay my bills over these couple years

Lindsay (01:12:10):

With something that's actually meaningful. Yeah. That feels like a form of activism.

Billie (01:12:14):

Yeah. I hope I can continue doing it.

Lindsay (01:12:15):

Yeah. That's amazing. I can't, what's it, what's the name of, of the book

Billie (01:12:19):

Again? Why are you so sensitive?

Lindsay (01:12:20):

Why are you so sensitive? Okay, great. I can't wait to get a bunch of copies and then when someone says some, I'm just gonna be like, here's this book

Moby (01:12:27):

Burn, burn it on their front stoop. Yeah, exactly.

Lindsay (01:12:29):

<laugh>.

Billie (01:12:29):

Yeah. Yeah. You can officially pre-order it now. It's on Amazon, it's everywhere. Um, but it will come out in August. Awesome.

Lindsay (01:12:37):

Very.

Moby (01:12:37):

So I'm feeling, I'm feeling guilty we've

Lindsay (01:12:39):

Kept you for so long. Yeah, no worries. <laugh>, thank you for being patient with us. I

Billie (01:12:42):

Have three of my own podcast to record later. Oh. Oh my god. I know. We do three in one day.

Lindsay (01:12:48):

You're doing that

Moby (01:12:48):

Today? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I, I looked at your podcast. What, what's it called again? Just because it's rather

Billie (01:12:54):

Oh, Billie and the Kid. Yeah. And it's, uh, presented by Jam in the Van, which is like a really cool powerhouse comedy, um, production company. And um,

Moby (01:13:02):

And do you film and record it there?

Billie (01:13:04):

Yeah, we, we film and record in a studio in Sony. I mean, uh, in a studio, um, by Sony. It's, um, on the west side. Cool.

Moby (01:13:13):

Yeah. And it, it gets a little racy, <laugh>. Like we tend to, I'm, I'm, I I I've, I used to have a racy past and now I'm so boring. Um, and I was <laugh> I gotta say there's some moments in your podcast where I blushed a little. I was like, Ooh.

Billie (01:13:30):

I know. We talk my girlfriend's back at home in Indiana, they're all like teachers and they have their parents and they're like, we have to like literally click

Moby (01:13:38):

Touch our pearls. Yeah.

Billie (01:13:40):

Like, they have to go like, make sure no one's listening or like their kids aren't in the car because we talk about everything, um, <laugh>. But you have, we have one comedian and one reality star on every episode. So it's like, so

Lindsay (01:13:54):

There's four of you every episode. Cool. So

Billie (01:13:56):

It's bound to get crazy. Um, but yeah, there's, there's no filter with my girlfriend, Sammy and I, we just, we have fun, but I'm learning and growing too as a host. 'cause it's like I've done so many different interviews, but to actually host and ask questions and also have the time to even care two about who's coming on my podcast <laugh> because like sometimes I'm so busy, I'm like, okay, I gotta focus on who's coming on so I can hold space for them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Lindsay (01:14:23):

Yeah. It's a really hard thing to, with that, especially with that many people. Four people is so many more than three. Yeah. <laugh>. Um, you're really di but it feels like a whole different Yeah. Yeah. Like three dogs feels like 700 more dogs than two. Yeah. So it's hard to like direct traffic and make sure like, is this, are there, is this happening <laugh>?

Moby (01:14:42):

Especially if it's four people. Like I Do you remember the ye olden days of Bill Mahers politically incorrect. It was a four person round table. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it was all people trying to out loud each other. Yeah. Yeah.

Moby (01:14:55):

<laugh> and having grown up in an uptight when and the, the, the home I grew up in, the only time people yelled was when they were getting ready to kill you or burn down the house. Like, apart from that, everyone was quiet. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So for me, yelling or like talking over someone like that was the apocalypse. And so I went on politically incorrect. Oh no. And I just became catatonic. 'cause everyone else was like, standup comedian, this do Bill Maher like yelling at each other. Talk crosstalk. And I just sort of sat there becoming more mob, more

Lindsay (01:15:23):

Catatonic.

Moby (01:15:25):

Yeah. I was like, I was like, why is everyone yelling at each other <laugh>? And as a result, I could never go back on. They kept inviting me back and I was like, I can't go back on. Why do you want me back on? I just sat there rocking back and forth being catatonic <laugh>. Aw. Um, so I can imagine on Billie the kid that there are some loud moments, but are you, can you be, because you're, you seem very self-contained and poised. I I don't remember you being too terribly rocket. You in particular being too terribly raucous on the podcast.

Billie (01:15:53):

No, I'm not. But my cohost is and she's young and loud and um, it's really great for comedy, but for the podcast I was like, honey, we gotta tone it down a little bit. Um, and she's learning and growing too. And so now she knows like you are not just on stage, you're like literally interviewing people. So you have to pause and make sure that there's room for them to talk and answer. Um, we are very different energy. It's like the yin and the yang. Um, but we compliment each other in a lot of ways. Yeah.

Moby (01:16:26):

You know, I used to have a friend who grew up in the loudest of loud homes, so she was really comfortable with being loud. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like unapologetically was just loud everywhere. This big mm-Hmm. <affirmative> loud woman. And I actually tried to get her to sort of teach me how to be loud.

Lindsay (01:16:42):

How'd

Moby (01:16:42):

That go? Didn't, I mean, clearly it didn't work out <laugh>, but like, I, I just wanted, I wanted to know what that was like to walk into any environment and be comfortable being loud. I'm so in awe of that. Like, I walk into every environment and I'm like,

Lindsay (01:16:57):

But I remember there was one even one time years ago. Well, we've, I'm sorry. There was one time years ago where I, I had roommates and I remember I told you once, like, oh yeah, my roommates were talking and I just went up to bed and you were like, you just left the conversation and you just did what you needed to do.

Moby (01:17:15):

I don't understand these things like <laugh>, I was like you didn't get permission. Yeah. <laugh> you didn't submit a note or like a written request.

Billie (01:17:23):

I know I'm out. Like I do Irish goodbye.

Moby (01:17:26):

I do like a good Irish goodbye, but I do a quiet Irish goodbye that does that. Meaning like in your case, like you're with people who are aware that you were leaving. What I do is like find the back exit and leave that way. So no one's aware that I'm leaving. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Lindsay (01:17:40):

Yeah, exactly. Um, anyway, maybe we could teach Moy to,

Moby (01:17:44):

I can do loud seal noises, but that's about it. Yeah.

Billie (01:17:48):

You should take an improv class or acting class. 'cause I was way more like loud and totally like depending on the character in acting class. Um, you know, I would, it was crazy how I was like, whoa, that was me. Like yeah. There are things that I do that's so outside of my personality and my comfort zone. Um,

Lindsay (01:18:09):

I'd love to see you in an improv class.

Moby (01:18:11):

Okay. <laugh>

Lindsay (01:18:12):

More, more than anything. So, so <laugh>,

Moby (01:18:14):

So as mentioned, I'm feeling guilty that we've kept you so long 'cause you have to go do three Billie The Kids. Yeah. Can we, uh, recap all the stuff that you're doing? 'cause you're doing lots of stuff

Lindsay (01:18:25):

So everyone knows.

Billie (01:18:26):

No, it's crazy.

Moby (01:18:27):

So Billie The Kid, the podcast.

New Speaker (01:18:28):

Billie The Kid Podcast. Um, and then my book, Why Are You So Sensitive? You can Pre-order now. Um, and then my comedy, I start my tour in June and

Moby (01:18:39):

It's a called again,

Billie (01:18:40):

Uh, the Tour is the Big Happy Comedy Tour. Um, there's gonna be tons of really cool comics that will be coming with me. Um, and you can go to "thebighappycomedytour.com" for tickets.

Moby (01:18:54):

And you have fantastic sweatshirts that we're gonna hopefully Oh yeah. You and I should

Billie (01:18:58):

Vegan.com.

Moby (01:18:58):

We should each wear one so we can take a photograph. Oh,

Lindsay (01:19:02):

Absolutely. Yeah.

Billie (01:19:03):

Yep. I brought them a couple, um, gifts, but yeah, "shesaidvegan.com". It's, it's fun. It's like, uh, I feel like every celebrity these days has a merch line. I'm like, if I'm gonna have a merch line, I want it to be vegan and I want it to, to be fun, but they're

Lindsay (01:19:17):

So cute. I know. They,

Moby (01:19:19):

They look like little after school specials. Yeah,

Lindsay (01:19:21):

Exactly. <laugh>. Yeah.

Moby (01:19:22):

And I, they start dancing. I know. I, without telling you about the Constitution,

Billie (01:19:25):

I'm not so artsy. But I teamed up with some really cool, um, artists and, um, I'm so happy that I did that because it supports them and it, you know, obviously brings awareness to the vegan world. Brings.

Lindsay (01:19:38):

It's

Moby (01:19:38):

Great. Um, well, thank you for coming on and being great and brave and honest and smart and funny. Um, and I'm still so impressed that your dad is a Saint <laugh>. Yeah. Um, I'm sorry that your brother is a Trump supporting Hunter <laugh>. Uh, we've established that he's a bad person. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:19:57):

<laugh>. So,

Moby (01:19:58):

<laugh> Lindsay, what, what do you wanna say? Anything? Oh,

Lindsay (01:20:01):

I just, I'm just so grateful for all that you do and how open and vulnerable you are about your own experience. Um, it's so cool and powerful and I'm so happy that you came here. Yeah.

Billie (01:20:14):

Thank you for having me. Thank you for holding space. Yeah.

Moby (01:20:17):

Now we gotta put on sweatshirts and take a picture. Yay. So Linz, we're, we're here to say goodbye, but I also, if my audio sounds a little odd or if you're watching on video, if I seem out of focus, it's because Bagel has taken my chair and I I don't wanna do anything to make Bagel get up. 'cause she's looking at me with the sweetest little softest eyes. So while I'm talking, you're on your phone like some sort of millennial or like Gen Z

Lindsay (01:20:55):

I'm a I

Moby (01:20:56):

Millennial. Are are you Snapchatting?

Lindsay (01:20:57):

Yeah, I'm just, uh, I'm just flirting on Snapchat, flirting with the homies on Snapchat. Well,

Moby (01:21:04):

So, so we're saying goodbye. We just had an amazing conversation with Billie. We

Lindsay (01:21:08):

Had an amazing conversation with Billie. I have to say what an amazing journey Billie has been on to come from this small rural town, rural town, and build this genuinely cool career for herself. That also includes activism in it. I mean, it's a pretty fun path. And I also love Billie's merch. I also love that Billie's on tour this summer with the big happy tour that might be in your town if you go look at the website. And I'm just so excited to see what Billie does next. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So

Moby (01:21:38):

While we're talking, I'm gonna say thank you to aforementioned Billie. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and to Bagel, who is occupying my chair <laugh>, which hopefully isn't messing up my audio too much. Uh, and also Mike Formanski, who shot the interview with Billie, but right now he's not shooting this. So if it looks terrible, that's because I'm the one who set up the cameras. But if

Lindsay (01:22:02):

It looks great, it was you too.

Moby (01:22:03):

It's Bagel Yeah. <laugh> and Jonathan Nesvaba, who's editing the audio and human content who are doing their best and most remarkable efforts to get the audio out into the world. And thank you Lindsay, and of course saving the best for last. Thank you Bagel for inspiring everything we do and taking my chair because you use it far better than I do. Right. The

Lindsay (01:22:27):

Way she's looking so deeply into your eyes. And thank you Moby, and thank you to everyone listening and emailing and subscribing and commenting. You guys are the bestest

Moby (01:22:40):

And we, we will be back in two weeks with a very special episode about my new record. Woo-hoo. And for the few people listening to the end of the podcast in two weeks, when you see us again, not only will we be talking about my new record, we will be getting into a spaceship orb.

Lindsay (01:22:57):

Yeah. It's gonna be a spaceship situation. So you're gonna wanna check that out. Okay. I hope you have a great day. Okay.

Moby (01:23:03):

Bye bye.

Lindsay (01:23:04):

Oh Bagel, You're so good!