Moby (00:00:08):

Hi, Lindsay.

Lindsay (00:00:09):

Hi, Moby.

Moby (00:00:10):

So we are going to talk about music but we are also revealing our true forms visually. And so if you're listening, that's great. We probably sound like just regular good old Lenss and Mo.

Lindsay (00:00:29):

Yeah. Well, you know, these are our, our voices that we have to use on this planet.

Moby (00:00:34):

And as a result, we also have our microphone translators.

Lindsay (00:00:38):

Yes. These microphones translate our words into every language in the universe.

Moby (00:00:44):

So I love the fact that people listen to this with their ears, but if you're bored, take a look at Lindsay and I in our true forms, because it's rare that we share who we actually are visually. Any case, maybe enough about that. And what are we gonna talk about? Well, we already established we're gonna talk about music.

Lindsay (00:01:06):

Yes. We're gonna talk about music. I brought you here to, you know, our lovely space that we so enjoy to speak about something that just recently happened, which was Always Centered at Night. An album, an earth music album, <laugh>, that you just put out. Which thank you for offering Earth your your sounds. But what I wanted to talk about was this amazing album that I personally actually genuinely love. And I'm not just saying that because you're my friend. Okay. There are so many songs on there that I just can't get enough of. You know, that feeling when like, just listening to a song isn't enough. You wanna like, put it inside of your brain medically. There's a couple songs like that on this album. Wow.

Moby (00:01:48):

Thank you. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:01:49):

I mean, it, it's real because

Moby (00:01:51):

I've, I've been making music since I was about nine years old, and I started making actual albums in the nineties. And as time has passed, my albums have become a little more obscure. But also, in the nineties, for example, albums were everything. You know, I would save up money to buy an album, and you'd take an album home and you would read the liner notes and you'd listen to it and you'd obsess over the photography. And at some point in the era of streaming, it seems like for a lot of people, and this, this isn't a criticism, albums stopped meaning as much, not for everyone, but for a lot of people. And so, honestly, for the last five or six years when I've released an album, I've just assumed that very few people would listen to it. Mm. And so when I hear your response, like the fact that you really love this Always Centered at Night album, my first honest response is, surprise that you and anyone has listened to it.

Lindsay (00:02:44):

Well, I also know something about you is that there are so many songs that you've made that no one has ever heard. And so you're very used to being in a place where people aren't hearing all the stuff you're making. 'cause You're constantly, every single day making stuff. Yeah. But, but I'm just so excited and I'm so, I'm so excited for you, but I'm also really excited for other people to get to hear it. But I thought what we could do today is just really talk about the album and talk about it from like a kind of bird's eye view, and then also maybe go song by song and talk about the process and the inspiration for each of them. Okay. I know it sounds like it might be a lot, but I really, really want to, because I really have a lot of questions and thoughts and feelings about

Moby (00:03:21):

Each song. Okay. And we also get to play snippets. Like we won't, obviously won't play each song in its entirety. Yeah. But

Lindsay (00:03:27):

A little, a little tidbit. A soupçon. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>.

Moby (00:03:31):

Okay. So the record itself, it started during the pandemic, and I'll, I'll keep this sort of brief, but during the Pandemic, like many people, I found myself sort of disengaging with the regular old physical outside world. And I was going on SoundCloud, I was going on YouTube discovering new singers. And I started asking people like you, and like people we work with and our friends, just this question of who are some singers I've never heard before? Like, who are some singers that people love that I wouldn't know? And it became this really like, almost weekly process where people would just send me recommendations. And in my ignorance, before four years ago, there's no one on this record I was familiar with. And I can't remember who on the record. Who did you recommend?

Lindsay (00:04:25):

I recommended Oh,

Moby (00:04:28):

Serpent With Feet, or Lady Blackbird.

Lindsay (00:04:30):

Well, I've always, I've loved Lady Blackbird for some time, so

Moby (00:04:33):

Probably then, then her record, lady

Lindsay (00:04:34):

Blackbird. But also it's, I, I recommended a couple.

Moby (00:04:37):

And the ethos for the record, it's inspired by this period in New York that, I'm gonna say started in the early seventies with this DJ named David Mancuso. And I've talked about him before. Like, we, when when we had your DJ lesson. Yeah. I think I talked about David Mancuso, and he had this club called The Loft. And his approach to playing music was so unbelievably eclectic, you know, and this was lower Manhattan, when Lower Manhattan was a wasteland, you know, burned out buildings, everything was empty. It was just like crime and poverty and vice, but these little pockets of creativity. And so the way he DJ'd was he would start a record, play an entire song. And when the song ended, he would play the next song. Like, there's no mixing, there's no beat matching. It was just about curating the music and that ethos of eclecticism.

Moby (00:05:31):

, you know, and that spread into the eighties. Like when I started hanging out in New York in the early to mid eighties, there were no genres. It was just music. You'd go to places like Danceteria or Area, or the Peppermint Lounge, or the Fallout Shelter, and you would just hear music, you know, and sometimes it would be Grace Jones, sometimes it would be the Bush Tetras or ESG or Liquid Liquid. Sometimes it would be New Order. It was Donna Summer. It was this eclecticism. And in a way, everyone prided themselves on almost like the diversity of their tastes. Like, it was weird to meet someone who only liked one type of music. Right. And a lot of the people who came from that scene, it's like me, Rick Rubin, the Beastie Boys, Madonna, Basquiat. Like, there's this just an openness to the culture that you hadn't otherwise been exposed to. Yeah. So this record, all of a sudden night, I don't know if it sounds like that, but I wanted it to be completely uninformed by genre restrictions.

Lindsay (00:06:35):

Yeah. I mean, that really comes across, I think, and also just like the emotion, the, the experience of it. Because I think they all touch on these different aspects of the human condition. I think in a way it's like every no stone really goes unturned.

Moby (00:06:51):

Well, thanks. Yeah. and so I just, I'm, I'm, I'm going down a little nostalgia rabbit hole. No, go. And I'm remembering, I just wanted, and I don't know if this is going to resonate with you or anyone listening or watching, but like this experience of New York, let's say 1983. And soho was desolate and empty, except for a few art galleries. The East Village was a war zone. Tribeca didn't even exist yet. And my friends and I would take the train into New York and just wander around. And we didn't know where anything was. There was no internet. There was no guidebooks. There was like the only way you could find things were stumbling upon them or being told that something existed. And those moments of like walking through soho, when there weren't streetlights, literally there were no streetlights. It was just this empty wasteland. And you'd find a record store, or you'd find a bar, or you'd find a restaurant or a nightclub and you'd walk in.

Moby (00:07:47):

And the people were interesting. You know, it was artists, it was musicians, it was filmmakers, it was writers. But the music, everything you heard sounded so new and so different. And there was no, almost no predictability to it. You know, like the first time I heard Liquid, liquid or a certain Ratio, or ESG or you know, a lot of the music that was being made, then your first thought was not familiarity. Your first thought was a question. Right. Not like, oh, I get it. But rather, what is this? Right. Who made it? Where is it coming from? What world has created this music that I've never heard before? Yeah. And I, as much as I love the current world of, you know, genre, et cetera, it's very predictable. You know, when you hear pop music, it sounds like pop music, you hear dance music, it sounds like dance music.

Moby (00:08:39):

You hear hip hop, it sounds like hip hop. Like you never wake up with discovery and surprise the way we did back then. Yeah. You know, because there wasn't genre. Like I don't, I mean, like a band, like ESG being the perfect example. It's like three Puerto Rican women from the South Bronx being produced by Joy Division's producer playing minimalist science fiction disco. And you heard, you're like, it's really what in the world is going, what is this? And as a result, it was so exciting. And it also because the music was so at times strange and challenging. If you didn't understand it, you didn't dismiss it. I would say to myself, okay, I don't understand it so clearly something's wrong with me. Yeah. Like, you never blamed the music for not understanding the music. Right. Whereas now I feel like on Spotify, people give it 10 seconds, whereas back then, oh yeah. You would give it weeks and months, you would be like, okay, I don't understand this record. I'm gonna listen to it 50 times until I understand it well.

Lindsay (00:09:38):

But also now we're just like drowning in content. And I feel like then it was like, these discoveries felt kind of magical, you know? Oh,

Moby (00:09:46):

Absolutely. And it was expensive, you know, to get a record. One record was three or four hours work at a menial job. There was nothing cavalier about buying a record. Like, you had to think about it. You couldn't just spontaneously buy a record. 'cause It represented a day's work. Right. Okay. So that's my nostalgic

Lindsay (00:10:04):

No, I, I love that. And I long for that time, even though I didn't really fully experience it, but I did.

Moby (00:10:09):

You hadn't been born yet? Yet.

Lindsay (00:10:10):

I had not been born yet. But I will say I did grow up in a time where like, I had to save up my, like, babysitting money and like my long-going money to go and buy CDs at the Best Buy. You know? So like, I

Moby (00:10:21):

You told me your first record was a Fuji's record.

Lindsay (00:10:23):

That I paid for with coins. Yeah. <laugh>.

Moby (00:10:26):

I, I'm not supposed to laugh because when I laugh it, it messes up my real face I was gonna say my makeup, like clearly this is not

Lindsay (00:10:32):

Makeup, but Yeah, no, it, yeah. We don't, there's no smiling here.

Moby (00:10:35):

Yeah. No smiling or laughing. 'cause I don't wanna mess up my, my beautiful alien face.

Lindsay (00:10:39):

Earth Culture's wearing off on you.

New Speaker (00:10:41):

Just like sugar. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:10:43):

Anyway, so I, I feel like when it comes to the ethos, that was your overarching ethos, but did you go into making this album with any more specific concerted ideas about how you wanted it to sound? Or was the goal just for it to be eclectic?

Moby (00:10:59):

Well, and the goal was also to be collaborative. Right? So the process was, it was like being a, an explorer. like, you know, like finding a singer. Usually recommendations from people like you or other people we know. and figuring out how to get in touch with them and going on Instagram, going on YouTube, going to the internet machine and finding the person, you know, and reaching out to them and seeing if they would be interested in collaborating. Yep. And then this long, sometimes painful process of sending them music instrumentals until they found something they loved. And then they would write to it, they'd send it back to me, I'd have my comments, and then we'd book Studio time and they'd go into a recording studio. So to get from discovering the singer to having a finished song was sometimes a year, or that's why it took a long time to make this record, because,

Lindsay (00:11:51):

'Cause you had to do that 12 times. Yeah. And it was at least, and I'm sure there are, yeah.

Moby (00:11:54):

It was no fault of the singers. Like they're just people, you know, like who lived in Africa or they lived in Europe, or in Lady Blackbird's case I found out she lives right around the corner from me. Yeah. And we shop in the same supermarket. Yeah. <Laugh>. So, but for the most part it was finding the people and figuring out how to work with them from 8,000 miles away during the pandemic. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:12:15):

Which also slowed just the entire world down. Do you know the band, The Postal Service?

Moby (00:12:19):

Yeah, of course.

Lindsay (00:12:20):

Wasn't that their whole thing is that they would have to send like instrumentals and then they have to ship it across the country to get things and then like back, that's why they called themselves The Postal Service? Or is that just incorrect lore?

New Speaker (00:12:29):

No, let's go with that. That's great.

Lindsay (00:12:31):

Okay. It sounds fun.

Moby (00:12:32):

Also, you know,

Lindsay (00:12:32):

That's how everyone did it.

Moby (00:12:34):

I did. It's documented on the internet audition to be their singer.

Lindsay (00:12:38):

You did?!

Moby (00:12:39):

It's comedy. So they had a,

Lindsay (00:12:40):

What do you mean?

Moby (00:12:41):

They had a fake audition for people to be the singer for The Postal Service. And so it was me Weird Al audition. Okay, perfect. Yes. I think Duff from Guns N Roses audition. So basically they just said, they reached out to like 15 people and said, will you audition? And I will presumptuously say mine was the most destructive. Like, I tore off my clothes and screamed at the top of my lungs and broke tables. It's all, that's actually very all brand. It's all on the YouTubes.

Lindsay (00:13:12):

I can't wait to go look at that. So. Okay. Do you think that maybe it's time to start going track by track? Because I just, I'm excited to do that unless there's anything else that you feel like you've left out about, like you general more general approach?

Moby (00:13:25):

No, I mean, we've talked about the ethos, we've talked about how it was made. So maybe now it would be nice to actually play some of the musics.

Lindsay (00:13:35):

Yes. I would love that. I think our, the first song on Always Centered at Night. Oh, by

Moby (00:13:40):

The way, one thing a little bit of a, just an aside, is the, the order in which the songs appear on the album was actually determined by you.

Lindsay (00:13:50):

I know. I curated.

Moby (00:13:51):

You Curated. And and

Lindsay (00:13:53):

I felt really strongly about it.

Moby (00:13:54):

And the reason for that is threefold. First you have a, a sort of an unprofessional understanding of music that's very special.

Lindsay (00:14:04):

Yeah. 'cause my only understanding of music is musical theater, which is not really an understanding of music at

Moby (00:14:09):

All. That's not, but you also, you, you know more about music than almost anybody. I know. I'm

Lindsay (00:14:13):

Also a music head. Yeah. I love music.

Moby (00:14:15):

So I realized most of the people I know, like people we work with, they're professionally involved in the world of music. Which is great, but it's not objective. You know, like I have

Lindsay (00:14:25):

A more emotional point of view on it of like, how it makes me feel.

Moby (00:14:29):

And one thing that's always frustrated me is like, I'll play music for friends of mine. And I'll be like, well, what do you think? And they'll be like, well, I'm not a professional. I was like, I don't make music for professionals. You make music for someone to listen to on the subway while they're going to work, or like at home when they're making dinner. Like, you don't make, make little

Lindsay (00:14:44):

Weaves to dance to in their living room. Yeah.

Moby (00:14:46):

Like me <laugh>. So yeah. So I handed all the music to you and I said, okay, you decide what the album sequence should be. You decide the order. 'cause I'm too close to it. I've listened to these songs 5 million times and I made them. So my criteria is completely shot. And everyone I work with professionally, they're bringing in criteria that doesn't have much to do with music, which isn't a criticism, but they're hearing other things.

Lindsay (00:15:11):

They're, they're in the business very deeply. And I think that changes your approach to music from a, a standard that is so complex from years of working in that. But I don't have that.

Moby (00:15:21):

Yeah. So you approached it with just sort of like passion and intelligence and so Yeah. So the order in which the song that we're gonna go through is actually picked by you,

Lindsay (00:15:29):

Which I feel very proud about. Also, something about the album that I think people might not know is that I took the cover picture.

Moby (00:15:35):

Oh yeah, that's right. You also took the picture on the cover, which

Lindsay (00:15:38):

Is so cool. It turned out so great. And Mike Formanski did the graphic design on it. Which it turned out so great. And the Yellow

Moby (00:15:45):

Album, it's inspired by album. I don't dunno if I should say this, I don't, well, if I get in trouble for this, the album design is inspired by the David Lynch movie lost Highway, which now, if you look at the Art for Lost Highway, you'd be like, oh, okay.

Lindsay (00:15:58):

That's really,

Moby (00:15:59):

Really funny. I kind of, it's a direct borrow.

Lindsay (00:16:01):

Oh, well thanks David Lynch for everything, but also this. So, okay. So let's go through and talk about stuff. Do you wanna take a moment, a brief moment to listen to On Air with Serpent With Feet?

Moby (00:16:13):

Yeah. Let's listen to like 45 seconds. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:16:16):

Okay. Let's do it.

Lindsay (00:17:01):

Well, that's a banger.

Moby (00:17:03):

Hmm. I, I mean, when I think banger, I think like oomph, mph, oomph,

Lindsay (00:17:07):

Oomph, mph. When I think banger, I just think something that knocks my socks

Moby (00:17:11):

Off. Okay. I'm, yeah, I'm thinking like Tomorrowland Festival, 150,000 people jumping up and down to a kick drum.

Lindsay (00:17:17):

Oh no. I have a more gentle relationship to the word banger, but I really understand why

Moby (00:17:21):

You think that. And in the UK banger means sausage, which doesn't have to involve meat.

Lindsay (00:17:25):

Yeah, that's nice. So I love this song. To me, this song is one of my favorite songs of all the songs that exist. I just love it. I love Serpent with Fe's voice, who, it's just cuts right to the core of me. I, I just love the music. I love how it builds. It's just such a fantastic song. How did you start talking to Serpent with Pete?

Moby (00:17:49):

Well, someone sent me a link to his music, and like every person with ears, I fell in love with his voice. And so then began the process of like, how do we reach out to this person? Turns out he was in Los Angeles, so every song on the record, except for this one, was written remotely. You know, as we get into it, we'll see, like some of the people were in Burundi. Yeah. Some of the people were in the Netherlands, whereas Serpent came over and we wrote the song together. So it was actually the only song on the record that was a true collaboration in that we sat in the same studio, sorry, the same spaceship that we are currently sitting in and wrote the song together. I mean, lyrically, it's, it's his song. But I'm just saying, I sat here and he was writing down lyrics and he'd be like, well, I can't figure out this next line. And I might, and I would make a suggestion, but that ultimately it's, they're his lyrics.

Lindsay (00:18:45):

Yeah. You're really good at helping fill out a lyric. You know what I mean?

Moby (00:18:48):

I'm not great at starting lyrics, but I love helping people to like find a turn of phrase or something. Well,

Lindsay (00:18:56):

You're also really good at figuring out like a cadence word or a smoothing it outward, or you're just very, very good at that with lyrics.

Moby (00:19:05):

Hmm. Maybe it's just years of, I don't know. My, my brain hears words in my head. Maybe we all do. I don't, what am I trying to say? Am I having a dissociative moment? Is

Lindsay (00:19:14):

It, yeah. I think you're schizophrenia.

Moby (00:19:15):

I've been breathing oxygen way too long. We need to get back to glarxs. Oh.

Lindsay (00:19:19):

Oh, no. glarxs Glarxs is a callin. And so when you, so when you came to Serpent, you already had the music and so he was writing to an instrumental.

Moby (00:19:29):

Yeah. So when I sent the music to people, I tried to send them very neutral music. Like, I didn't want to send them complicated over arranged pieces of music. I wanted to keep it very simple so that there'd be lots of room for them to do whatever they wanted to do.

Lindsay (00:19:47):

Cool. So when you sent him this instrumental, then he wrote lyrics to it, then you had to redo the instrumental, I'm assuming? Or did you just use that same one that you'd been working on before you sent

Moby (00:19:57):

It? I mean, I added to it a bit, but a lot of what I've learned over time is sometimes the best way this is sort of a Mies van der Rohe architect approach of the best way to add to something is actually to take away from it. So, for example, there was an earlier version of this song that was much more elaborate, but the core of this song, it's delicate. It's it's delicate, vulnerable. And I was like, okay, I don't need a big arrangement with lots of stuff going on to communicate vulnerability. Like vulnerability involves sparseness involves delicacy. And so that's why like, the actual adding to the song was more pulling things out so that at times it's almost disconcertingly spare.

Lindsay (00:20:42):

Yeah. But it's not disconcertingly spare. It's like that space leaves room for emotion to come in. You know? Like it's, it lets you really sit with the like, powerful feeling of that song, which I love so, so much.

Moby (00:20:57):

Thanks. Yeah. It's really good. Should we move on to Lady Blackbird?

Lindsay (00:21:01):

Hell yeah, we can. Okay.

Moby (00:21:02):

So, like I said, I think you might've, I don't want to get in trouble, but you might've been the one who sent me the reference or the recommendation for Lady Blackbird. Or maybe they,

Lindsay (00:21:11):

No, I wouldn't be surprised if multiple people sent you Lady Blackbird, because she's such a force and

Moby (00:21:15):

She's Taylor Swift's favorite singer.

Lindsay (00:21:17):

That does not surprise me in the least. There's, she's a badass.

Moby (00:21:20):

There's amazing footage of Lady Blackbird singing on a British TV show. And then when they're done, they cut to Taylor Swift being a guest on the TV show. And the host says, oh, what do you wanna talk about? And Taylor Swift says, actually, I just want Lady Blackbird to sing more. Ugh. So

Lindsay (00:21:36):

Relatable. Taylor <laugh>.

Moby (00:21:37):

So as I mentioned, a lot of the singers on this record, they're spread all over the world. And so when I find the singers, I don't know anything about them. I don't know if they're black, if they're white, if they're old, if they're young, are they cis or trans? Like, I don't know anything about them when I hear their voices. And so with Lady Blackbird, my assumption was, oh, she's a Shantus who lives in anrondus mall of Paris, and she lives in an atelier at the top of some 18th century beautiful building that is her vibe. Turns out she lives around the corner from me. And so when we finally got in touch with her, I did realize that like we shop at the same supermarket, as I mentioned earlier, we buy our oat milk at the same place. So instead of me thinking she lived in a Parisian atelier, she, she lives around the corner,

Lindsay (00:22:35):

Which is great because she's the best and I also really wanna be her best friend. Should we listen to a few seconds of Dark Days?

Moby (00:22:42):

Dark days? Yes, please.

Lindsay (00:22:43):

Okay.

Lady Blackbird (singing) (00:23:04):

Hear the waves crash on the beach...

Lindsay (00:23:40):

God. That's good. I mean, that voice, her voice,

Moby (00:23:43):

I mean, 'cause when I was very little, nine years old, I started playing guitar and I had dreams of being the world's greatest singer. And then I learned pretty quickly my voice is, nah, it's okay. Not bad, not good. Just there, sometimes it's okay, but it's not phenomenal. Like, I don't have one of those transcendent beautiful voices. So in the late eighties, I was like, well, if I'm gonna have beautiful voices in my music, I have to go out and learn how to work with singers. So as a result, when I hear one of those voices, you know, like a serpent with feet, like a lady blackbird, like almost everybody on the record, I become obsessed and I almost need to own the voice. Not forever, but I need to, like, when I hear a voice like that, and one of the most heartbreaking things is when I find someone with that voice like a James Blake and I'm not able to work with them. Ugh.

Lindsay (00:24:34):

God, James Blake.

Moby (00:24:35):

I keep, I keep asking, I keep getting rebuffed. Come on James Blake, give a guy a break.

Lindsay (00:24:40):

I know you've never seen Little Mermaid, but this is very Ursula what you're doing right now.

Moby (00:24:45):

Okay. Do

Lindsay (00:24:46):

You know Ursula the Sea Witch? No. She made Ariel give her her voice so that she could go on land and she wore her voice in a little shell on her neck.

Moby (00:24:55):

Oh, I need to go watch Little Mermaid. Is that weird for a 58-year-old man to watch Little Mermaid?

Lindsay (00:25:00):

No. Not at all. Okay. It's, it's actually a wonderful film.

Moby (00:25:02):

Okay. So I'll watch Little Mermaid, except I've

Lindsay (00:25:04):

Never seen it. So you the animated one, not the live action one? Yeah. Though the live action one's fine, but the animated is classic.

Moby (00:25:09):

Okay. So Lady Blackbird, I heard her voice and I was just like, how can, like, you know, I, and I humbly asked, can we work on something together? And I sent them an instrumental, and a week later they send me back a perfect finished recorded song. Like, it's one thing, and I don't know if this is interesting to you or to, to anybody watching or listening, but like a lot of these singers, I would send them the instrumental and then what they sent back was perfection. Like, so

Lindsay (00:25:37):

Lady Blackbird wrote the

Moby (00:25:38):

Lyrics, she wrote the lyrics, she wrote the vocal melodies. I had no input at all. Wow. The only thing I did was structure it. So there's like the hummed part that Hmm , I made that happen a lot more because I love that part so much. Like, she had only done it once, whereas I think I put it like seven times in the song.

Lindsay (00:25:55):

It's fantastic.

Moby (00:25:56):

It was just sort of like a slight ad lib on her part. But I loved that the sim the plaintiff simplicity of that vocal melody. also, I guess maybe she and her producer did a little research and I realized I might be a little apocalypse obsessed. So I think lyrically they did maybe address some apocalyptic themes.

Lindsay (00:26:15):

It does feel very, and I mean this is very lady blackbird, but very like outer spacey and like kind of spanning time. like in the days of Early Man and then talking about the apocalypse. And it's just, I mean, it's so cool. Yeah.

Moby (00:26:27):

I mean, like us, there's a good chance she is a space alien in quasi human form.

Lindsay (00:26:33):

Quasi, like, the costumes that she wears, the performance, the whole, I mean, her whole thing is just incredible. But anyway, I love Dark Days. Thanks. And I love shooting the music video for Dark Days. Remember you took your shoes off.

Moby (00:26:45):

I don't remember taking my shoes off. Was I making noise or did she have her shoes off?

Lindsay (00:26:48):

No, in the music video when we went out and shot you in the suit. Oh,

Moby (00:26:52):

That's right. Yeah. The, the space alien suit I'm wearing right now. Yeah. And I took my shoes off in a dirty, disgusting parking lot. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:26:59):

I'm surprised you didn't get syphilis of the

Moby (00:27:00):

Foot. I think I do have Syphilis of the foot. <Laugh>. There's the pull quote right there, <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:27:05):

Yeah.

Moby (00:27:06):

I can see that on a billboard. I have Syphilis of the Foot hyphen Moby.

Lindsay (00:27:10):

Yeah. Well they do have a lot of STD billboards around LA and I feel like that might be a fun addition, a

Moby (00:27:15):

Foot related one. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:27:17):

You know, that's branding people.

Moby (00:27:18):

So the next song, which I believe is Where Is Your Pride Sure. Is with Benjamin Zephaniah. So this, there's so much to say about this. first and foremost, it's the only time in my life I've worked with a vocalist based on their politics, based on their activism. Of course I love his voice. But what drew me to Benjamin was his unapologetic, outspoken animal rights activism. And I had been aware of him for a long time. By the way, should we, should we talk about it first? Or should we listen? Let's listen

Lindsay (00:27:54):

Really quick so we can get the vibe. Okay. So we can know where we're at. Right.

Moby (00:27:56):

So here, here's where is your pride? We'll play about 45 seconds.

Benjamin Zephaniah (raps) (00:28:01):

Where is your nightmare? Where is your, where is your ego? Where is your, your, where is your, where is your, where your,

Moby (00:28:32):

Okay. So as mentioned, it's the first time I've ever wanted to work with a vocalist because of their politics. 'cause I mean, he was such a remarkable, outspoken animal rights activist. And he somehow combined direct unapologetic animal rights activism with gentleness , like never apologizing, but never being unnecessarily antagonistic.

Lindsay (00:29:00):

No, no. But I mean, his beliefs were so powerful and so firm. And the art he made around it was just so beautiful. Yeah.

Moby (00:29:08):

So I got in touch with him a few years ago. We worked on this song, and then as we were getting ready to make the music video last year, he let me know that he had been, he, he was ill. And unfortunately, he passed away before we were able to shoot the video with him. So we, instead, you and I and our friend Mike Formanski we made, and his family, we made a video that hopefully is sort of pays honor to him and a testament to his life and his work. So the Where is Your Pride? I mean, the song I love, but the video hopefully is something that his family feels like respects him and his legacy.

Lindsay (00:29:50):

I hope so. I really hope so. I mean, the song turned out so great. It's so fun and deep and exciting and also has given me a fun thing to do where soetimes I'm like, "Where is my phone? Where are my keys?" And it's just a, it's a, it's the song that's always in my head when I can't find stuff. And I love that about myself. <Laugh>, <laugh>

Moby (00:30:13):

Don't make me laugh 'cause it messes up my earth makeup.

Lindsay (00:30:16):

But also I think there's a certain, the nostalgia of this song is really, really powerful, don't you think? Like, it just feels like it's another time. It feels very, like, it feels like a protest. It feels like a, you better question everything. right now. You, yourself, the world around you. Like it really gets under your skin. I think the kind of powerful, hopeful energy of it, you know? Yeah. And how it, it begs you to take a deeper look into your yourself and your life and all of your things that you believe while also making you dance. Yeah. Which is my favorite combo.

Moby (00:30:57):

I mean, I do appreciate that there are no answers, it's just questions.

Lindsay (00:31:01):

Yes. I love that.

Moby (00:31:03):

I, I don't know too many other songs that are just comprised of questions.

Lindsay (00:31:09):

It's very Rilke.

Moby (00:31:10):

Its Rilke-ish s so now I believe the next song is Transit.

Lindsay (00:31:15):

Transit.

Moby (00:31:16):

Okay. So should we take a little 45 second listen to Transit?

Lindsay (00:31:19):

Let's go. Transit over to Transit. Okay.

Moby (00:32:19):

So? Gaidaa, who sings on this song? Everybody on the record has a phenomenal voice and a beautiful, inspiring voice. So I got in touch with her and I believe she's from the Sudan, but was living in the Netherlands. And somehow we got in touch with her. I sent through this instrumental, and similar to Lady Blackbird, she sent back a masterclass in writing and production. Wow. Like, it intimidated me, like some, some vocalists are confident and sent through one vocal take. She built an orchestra around her voice. What? And I don't know if anyone will hear it necessarily, but if I opened the, the recording session and showed you there's probably 60 vocal tracks. What? And not one of them is unnecessary. Like, she's so talented. She knew exactly what to do, like how to build this. Wow. And she's really young too. Like she, I was like, how did you figure this out at age 23? Or.

Lindsay (00:33:21):

Baby Genius?

Moby (00:33:22):

Yeah, it was, yeah. I was so completely blown away, both with her creativity, her talent, 'cause that this is a strange song like Transit, the, the chord changes the melodies, and she's so remarkable. She just made everything work flawlessly.

Lindsay (00:33:39):

That's incredible. Obviously you were in the room with Serpent with Feet, but did anyone, like, talk to you about their lyric writing process? Or

Moby (00:33:47):

Did they? Well, okay, so there is one recurring issue which didn't apply to Gaidaa or the people we've talked about, but there are a couple times where some of the vocalists and lyricists, for some reason, thought they had to write pop songs. Hmm. And so I would send them an instrumental and they would send back pop lyrics. And I didn't wanna make a pop record. I don't dislike pop music. I just don't listen to pop music.

Lindsay (00:34:16):

But it was just in, in the lyrics, you know,

Moby (00:34:18):

The lyrics and sometimes the vocal melodies. And I would, there were a couple times in making the record, I had to go back to someone and be like, oh, you're obviously incredibly smart and talented, but this is a chance to be poetic. This is a chance to be personal and idiosyncratic. This is a chance to do the creative thing that you might not be allowed to do elsewhere. Yeah. You know, because so many managers, so many record labels, et cetera, push people to write pop songs. And I just don't care about pop music. To me, it's kind of insipid. I was like, especially when you have the ability to write something meaningful and creative and special. Right. So, but in guide's case, what she sent back, I, I didn't have any comments except that you're a genius and I can't believe I got to work with you.

Lindsay (00:35:02):

Yeah. I mean, I, I feel like what a cool task to take on. It feels like a true collaboration of like, I'm gonna paint this part of the canvas and you're gonna paint this part of the canvas. But I also love that you got to inspire people to kind of dig deeper or do something unexpected. Or maybe like, they got to write the thing they always wanted to write, but felt like they couldn't 'cause they were trying to fit into some certain

Moby (00:35:27):

Thing, you know? Yeah. As, as, you know, as anybody involved in creative work knows, there's a lot of caution, a lot of fear, a lot of compromise, whether it's in the world of tv, art, movies, but music, like, there's so much fear that people have, like feeling like they have to make something that immediately catches a TikTok algorithm. And I'm like, but that's not what makes for great music. You know, that's what catches an algorithm for a week and a half and then disappears. So, I'm not saying my music is better than that, but I aspire to make music that's better than that.

Lindsay (00:36:05):

Yeah. Though, I will say sometimes TikTok catches a pretty,

Moby (00:36:08):

Oh, it's fun. Sometimes they, and sometimes they catch a really interesting or emotional piece of music, but a, I mean, a social media algorithm, like it's competing with videos of cats on skateboards and people wearing bucket hats, like, or

Lindsay (00:36:24):

A dog that got, got grandma's dentures and it looks like it has human teeth

Moby (00:36:28):

And I'm all in favor of these things. Yeah. Those are

Lindsay (00:36:29):

Great things, really wonderful things. But

Moby (00:36:31):

I don't think music should necessarily be compared to a ten second video of a dog wearing human teeth.

Lindsay (00:36:38):

Very different things. Yeah.

Moby (00:36:39):

What's next? Ooh.

Lindsay (00:36:41):

Okay. Wild Flame. So don't get me started. So

Moby (00:36:45):

Let's listen, let's listen to about 45 seconds of this.

Lindsay (00:36:48):

Okay. Let's do it. Yeah.

Moby (00:37:33):

So, earlier I mentioned how some of the vocalists, when I first started working with them, sent me pop lyrics. So Danaé, I had reached out to her and she sent me these lyrics that were very, they were good, but they were quite commercial and direct. And this was which

Lindsay (00:37:52):

Like, there's a market for that big one.

Moby (00:37:54):

Yeah. Great. And I, I'm not criticizing it. I just wanna do the alternative to that. And so, very politely, very delicately. 'cause I didn't wanna offend her because I don't, I'd never met her. I wrote back and said, oh, these lyrics are really good, but they're, they're very conventional. And I said, please, if you can just use this as an opportunity to be poetic. And she laughed and she said, well, that's good because I'm the poet laureate of Manchester.

Lindsay (00:38:23):

What The F?

Moby (00:38:24):

So she's actually like a professional published lauded poet. She felt like it was me reaching out to her that she had to write pop songs, pop songs, and then instead she was like, great, throw the pop thing away and I'm gonna write something personal and poetic. And so she, she's

Lindsay (00:38:40):

The poet laureate of Manchester.

Moby (00:38:42):

Yeah. That's why I think it's funny that, wow. That she thought she had to write pop lyrics. It's kind of like hiring Jimi Hendricks to be your, I don't know, the guy who fixes your wheelbarrow. You're like, no, no. You're Jimi Hendrix play guitar. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:38:56):

Well, I love the lyrics to Wild Flame.

Moby (00:38:59):

Yeah, me too. Because there's a, I mean, I love the lyrics for every song on this record

Lindsay (00:39:04):

Sing. That's interesting.

Moby (00:39:05):

But the only way I can describe it, it's like secular poetry, but it has that sort of transcendent language that makes it not journalism, it's poetry.

Lindsay (00:39:16):

Yeah. That really, it really comes across. But I think I'll probably listen to it with new ears now that I know she's the poet laureate of Manchester. Yeah. Which is good for her. Yeah. Good on Danaé

Moby (00:39:26):

And her, her voice and her phrasing and Yeah. That it's one of the things I will say about every person on the record, they have the most distinctive voices, you know, where like, again, on the rare sad occasion when someone forces me to listen to pop music, all the voices kind of sound the same. Yeah. You know, autotune generic. And I'm like, eh, apart from a few people, I mean, they're obviously like the Billie Eilish who have amazing voices. , but so much other pop music, like the singing's just so bland and all the people on this record, they are, each of their, like, they're immediately recognizable as distinctive voices.

Lindsay (00:40:06):

Something. And I'm not referencing any song on this album, but I love how you, you don't care if the note is wrong. You don't care if it's off in some way. You don't care if you don't get the full word out. You just want it to have emotion. And I love that about how you, how you make music. Like, it's, it's, it's much a much more emotional experience as opposed to a technical experience, which I think is Oh yeah. Really interesting. And probably rare.

Moby (00:40:36):

A lot of musicians, a lot of producers, a lot of vocalists, they aspire for technical perfection. And for me, all I aspire towards is music that I respond to emotionally. And the, the paradox is, the more that a musician or a producer aspires towards technical perfection, the more they move away from emotion. Yeah. And so, over time, I've had to learn tons of tricks that I play on singers to get them to deliver emotional

Lindsay (00:41:06):

Performances, like chasing them.

Moby (00:41:08):

Okay. So here's my one trick I'm gonna, I'm like, maybe I won't be able to use it anymore, is when I have a singer in my studio, I'll turn on the microphone and I'll start playing the song and I'll put the microphone in front of them and I'll be like, oh, just run through the vocals, just gonna get some levels. And I'm actually recording the whole time because it's their first take and they're doing it spontaneously and they're not worrying about it. And it's always the best performance, the

Lindsay (00:41:33):

Old bait and switch

Moby (00:41:34):

The old like, oh, no one's paying attention, we're not gonna use it.

Lindsay (00:41:37):

Dance like, nobody's watching. Yeah.

Moby (00:41:39):

And as a result, it's, that's where you get honesty. And so it's, yeah. And then there's some people who are just so good. You don't need to play tricks with them. Like they're so accomplished and so good, they can deliver beauty and honesty and technical perfection.

Lindsay (00:41:55):

Right. And I have to say, all the voices on Always Centered at Night are genuinely, technically beautiful. But you also manage to get such real emotion out of all of them, which is kind of a feat in my opinion. I,

Moby (00:42:09):

But that's, that's the only goal. Yeah. You know, like I, technical perfection. I worked with a producer who's very, very good at what they do. Years ago I worked with this sort of more pop oriented producer, and they kept pushing things to be technically perfect. And the end result was something that's kind of sterile. Yeah. And I was like, oh, let it be messy. Like the greatest records are messy records. Yeah. You know, Billie Holiday singing Strange Fruit that's messy. One take to a video camera, you know, like John Lennon singing, imagine like beautiful music is not perfect. Yeah. You know, it's human, which is ironic if you're making electronic music, but it's how do you combine, how do you, with an electronic background, how do you provide an environment for that vulnerability and beauty

Lindsay (00:42:59):

And that like, genuine human experience that is just how it shows up. spontaneously as the humans do, which we are not. Yeah. But, you know, as are things like to do.

Moby (00:43:10):

So Now in my ignorance, what's the next song on the record? Okay. So Precious Mind. Can we listen to 45 seconds of it?

Lindsay (00:43:17):

Better Believe It?

India Carney (sings) (00:43:46):

Precious Mind..

Moby (00:43:47):

So Precious Mind. Okay. I have a confession. Confess. Okay. There are three songs on the record that I wrote the lyrics to

Lindsay (00:43:55):

Really? Is this. And this is one of them. This is

Moby (00:43:57):

One of them maybe.

Lindsay (00:43:58):

Who's the singer on this one?

Moby (00:43:59):

India Carney. So

Lindsay (00:44:01):

That's one I recommended to you.

Moby (00:44:02):

Yes. So India, her voice, she's currently on tour with Olivia Rodrigo Crazy. And she texted me to say, Hey, I'm on tour with Olivia Rodrigo, do you know who she is? And my response was, I know her politics <laugh>, I don't think I've heard her music. I'm sure she

Lindsay (00:44:16):

Has some fantastically good songs. Yeah. Some songs that are like very punk rocky that I think you would actually quite enjoy.

Moby (00:44:21):

So I'm, I'm, I'm actually gonna go because I like Olivia Rodrigo for being outspoken politically. I might actually go listen to her music.

Lindsay (00:44:29):

Beautiful voice, unbelievably well written songs quickly.

Moby (00:44:32):

So, so in India's on tour with her, but as a result, she's busy, you know? Oh yeah. She is a very, I mean, she's, and she's got this voice, it's like, I'm like, everybody on the record has that voice, but like, her voice has a, just like a richness to it and a vulnerability to it. And so I kept trying to get her to write lyrics and write a write, you know, to collaborate with me. But she didn't have the time. Yeah.

Lindsay (00:45:00):

I mean, when you're on tour with a Yeah. Huge pop star, it's like, that's a, that's a full-time and a half job. So

Moby (00:45:06):

Selfishly, I was like, I need your voice. I need

Lindsay (00:45:10):

Ursula

Moby (00:45:12):

Ursula. Oh, the Sea Witch, little Mermaid. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. But I was like, I was like, yeah, I thought you were just having a Disassociative moment.

Lindsay (00:45:19):

<Laugh>. Well, that's also true.

Moby (00:45:20):

But, so I emailed her and I was like, I I, I need you to sing on this record. Can you please come over to my studio and just sing a song that I've written? The problem is I didn't have the song written. I got a little instrumental. So she was on her way over here, and I was like, oh, I gotta write a song. And so the lyrics just sort of came out very quickly.

Lindsay (00:45:44):

So you weren't trying to express something, but I was

Moby (00:45:47):

Inside of you. It's, I mean, they're very quick, but they're very, I I think for me, they're very personal and they're very emotional.

Lindsay (00:45:53):

Where do you think this, these lyrics came from?

Moby (00:45:57):

Vulnerability. Yeah. I mean, wanting, there's this, especially the world in which we live, it's about protecting ourselves. It's about finding refuge. It's like, you know, looking at the world and feeling constantly assaulted. And how do you protect yourself? How do you, you know, that's what the, the song is about. Basically protecting your heart, protecting your mind, protecting your soul, finding that refuge. Yeah. So, but that's my, there, there we will get to it. There are two other songs I wrote the lyrics to.

Lindsay (00:46:30):

Ooh. I can't wait to know which ones 'cause I don't know this. Yeah. Okay. Exciting. What's the next song? Ooh, it Should Sleep. Let's listen to, Should Sleep Put Your Dance and Shoes On

Moby (00:47:18):

Okay. So Should Sleep. This is the David Mancuso inspired song on the record. This is, you know, J.P. Bimeni who sings on this, first of all, he's the nicest human being on the planet. Like it's it almost dis it's disconcerting how nice he is. But also as is true with a lot of the singers, sorry if I'm repeating myself, but like, I sent him the instrumental and I didn't know what I was gonna get back. He's from Burundi. And in my ignorance, I don't fully know where that is. I know that it's in Sub-Saharan Africa. Beyond that, I don't know.

Lindsay (00:47:54):

I didn't even know that

Moby (00:47:55):

Part. And he sent back, similar to Gaidaa, he sent back a masterclass. Wow. Like he sent back

Moby (00:48:05):

Layers of harmonies and vocals and delivery and it's perfect. Mm. Like, just like, and I remember it was a Friday night when I received the WeTransfer with his vocals. I put them into the song and I just started jumping around my studio. Aw. Since Friday night I'm dancing to this song. And it reminded me, it's so nostalgic for me of like what nightclubs were like in New York before dance music was codified. Yeah. You know, you'd go to hear Larry Lavan or you'd, you know, this was even before house music existed. And it was things like the Peach Boys or, you know, enjoy records where it was disco inspired, but you could tell it was moving towards house music. You know, it's where Frankie Knuckles who invented house music came from. Yeah. So this, like, you feel like you could be at the Paradise Garage in the mid eighties, you know, just sweaty and celebrating.

Lindsay (00:49:04):

That's really, I mean, it does feel like a bit of time traveling, but it's also just so fun. Yeah. And his voice is cool.

Moby (00:49:12):

And if you, if I, again, if I could open up the session and show you his recording and the layers he created, because it's, you wouldn't, when you listen to it, it sounds effortless. There's so much remarkable creative work that he put into writing and recording his vocals.

Lindsay (00:49:32):

And let me ask you this, because sometimes I don't understand this kind of thing because I'm not a musician, but like the kind of, I guess that's a, a keyboard riff that's like, you know what I mean? Like, when do you just, like, does that just appear inside of your brain parts?

Moby (00:49:51):

Well, a

Lindsay (00:49:52):

Lot of, like, how does that come to you?

Moby (00:49:53):

One of my favorite things to do is, so when I was growing up, I thought songs had to have tons of chord changes. And then I got into dance music in the mid eighties and I was like, oh, some of my favorite songs are based around one Chord. And a lot of funk music, a lot of African music. Even some reggae is all based around, like, it's riffs around One note. So a lot of this song should sleep. I mean, there are a couple chords in there, but it's really this rudimentary approach to chord structure. And so then everything becomes ornamentation around that. , you know, like keyboard parts and guitar parts and vocal parts and everything is just sort of like, there's this bass, like a melodic bass and everything works off of that. But keyboard wise, so I mentioned Grace Jones earlier, the, I think there was a keyboardist, I'm sure there were others, but there's one called Wally Badarou who played with Sly and Robbie and played on some of those early Grace Jones records. It, that's my inspiration. You know, like this approach to keyboard melodies and sounds that, yeah. I just, I I don't know why. I just love that so much. So I'm sort of just trying to channel those early Grace Jones records.

Lindsay (00:51:08):

Should we talk about another song?

Moby (00:51:09):

Please?

Lindsay (00:51:10):

What's next? Ooh, Feelings Come Undone is

Moby (00:51:14):

The next song. So let's listen to Feelings Come Undone.

Moby (00:51:59):

Okay, so this is the house music track on the record. Uand so here's a little secret.

Lindsay (00:52:06):

Tell me, I

Moby (00:52:07):

Can't tell you who the singer is.

Lindsay (00:52:10):

It's a secret.

Moby (00:52:11):

Yeah. I'm not allowed to say who the singer is.

Lindsay (00:52:13):

Is it Taylor Swift?

Moby (00:52:14):

It's not Taylor Swift. It's a singer that I can't, like

Lindsay (00:52:18):

Why can't you say, because

Moby (00:52:21):

We're not allowed to say,

Lindsay (00:52:22):

You can't even say why. You're not allowed

Moby (00:52:24):

To say I'm legally I'm allowed to release it, but I'm not allowed to address her name.

Lindsay (00:52:30):

Ooh. I love a mystery.

Moby (00:52:31):

I know. It's not mysterious. So Yeah, it really is. We've, we've worked on some things in the past, but there's some, there's some, like it was basically, I had, I had this issue with a well-known French singer once where I was releasing a song around the same time she was. And so I was a little, I couldn't credit her because it would be complete. Like she didn't want the records to compete.

Moby (00:52:52):

So, but this song, this is just my homage to early house music. This is especially going to see my Mind, the Greatest House DJ of all time. Tony Humphreys. I think I've talked about Tony Humphreys. If I have Okay, then I'll try and not repeat myself too much. But he DJ'ed he came from the David Mancuso Loft scene and, you know, hung out at Paradise Garage, I assume. But he had a club in Newark called Zanzibar. And I would, in the late eighties, trek out to Zanzibar. And not to engage too much in the world of race and orientation, but I would be the only white person there, and the only straight person there. And as a result, I felt like I was so, like, I was so honored to be welcomed. , like, unbel, like, I, like ev when I would walk in the door, I couldn't believe that I was allowed in to, to to this sacred space.

Moby (00:53:59):

You know, 'cause it, this, this wasn't my culture, you know, I'm a straight white guy from Connecticut and I'd be in Newark, New Jersey in 1989, going to a gay black house club. And I just loved it so much. And the way he approached music was this minimalist simplicity. , you know, and his genius was finding the records that everyone else missed. You know, like a, like a song that everyone else thought was too austere or too minimal. And he would play it for 12 minutes and it was really special. So that's the, the inspiration behind this. And also, this is one of the other ones. I wrote the lyrics too.

Lindsay (00:54:42):

Nice. What was your inspiration here?

Moby (00:54:47):

It's about, it's, it's sort of a degree. I don't even know, I don't know how to describe it. It's got an other worldly quality. It's about, I mean, there's this recurring motif in a lot of the work that I do about being separated from whatever the divinity might be. And so that's kind of the inspiration here. I don't know what the divine is, but I'm obsessed that humans are the only thing in the universe separated from the divine.

Lindsay (00:55:16):

It's a worthy thing, I think, to be obsessed with. Because I think it's the reason that we do such terrible things to each other and the planet and all of that. You know,

Moby (00:55:25):

And we've talked about this, like when I've gone to animal save events, like you go to a slaughterhouse, the animals look at the humans and they're just confused. Yeah. They're not, I mean, they're in pain, but they're just looking at the humans like, what are you doing? Like, this is not what we do. This is, you know, like we might eat each other and the, like, a lion might eat a lamb, but there's no torture, there's no confinement, there's no barbarity, there's no, it's just like, it's part of a system and we human, there's something about humans that were just broken off from that system. So that's what the song is about.

Lindsay (00:55:58):

I hope your song fixes it.

Moby (00:56:00):

It will.

Lindsay (00:56:00):

Okay. Good.

Moby (00:56:01):

<Laugh>, what's next? Oh, you made me laugh again. My, that makes my earth makeup crack <laugh>. No, no more comedy. Stop it.

Lindsay (00:56:11):

Mike, what's next? Oh, Medusa's next.

Moby (00:56:15):

Okay, so let's listen to a 45 second segment of Medusa.

Lindsay (00:56:19):

Okay. But you have to close your eyes while you listen to this song or else you'll turn into a, a stone.

Moby (00:57:01):

So that's Medusa. And here's the funny story behind Medusa. Okay. So in the ye olden days of about 2006, I wrote a hip hop song with a rapper named Aynzli. And he's the greatest rapper I've ever heard in my entire life. Like, he's so smart and so fast and so clever. I, I, and I could never quite figure out like, what did he do? Like, 'cause he was the greatest rapper I've ever heard. We did a song together called Alice. It's on from the album last night. So then I think he's gone into, he'd gone into business. He's also, he like, I think he produced some Doja Cat or wrote some Doja cat songs. So I, he's doing a lot of different things. But I reached out to him 'cause I wanted to work on another song together. So I sent him the instrumental and he sent back beautiful singing. And I wrote to him and I was like, who is this singing? And he said, bro, that's me,

Lindsay (00:58:07):

Bro.

Moby (00:58:07):

So in addition to being the greatest rapper who's ever lived that no one's ever heard of, for the most part, he's also a beautiful singer. And so he sent me these vocals that were just so inspired and like, and different, there's like verses then there's a hip hop part, then there's a second chorus, then there's another chorus. Then like this, this masterclass in vocal writing. But I was just, so I just, years ago when I worked with him, and I've never heard of a rapper who also is an amazing, beautiful singer.

Lindsay (00:58:41):

It's rare. It's definitely a rare thing. His voice is so cool too. There's like this kind of like depth and like, yeah, I don't know. There's something and like, so like round and like full about his voice. His voice is just so

Moby (00:58:54):

Cool. Yep. And he, I think he currently lives in Jamaica. Not quite sure what he's doing there. Working, being

Lindsay (00:59:01):

Cool and talented,

Moby (00:59:01):

Being cool and talented. But I, so you wanna hear a funny story about making the video? Yes. And he, it did involve him getting a little annoyed with me, understandably, uhoh.

Lindsay (00:59:12):

What did you do to

Moby (00:59:13):

Him? So, the video, it was in the middle of the winter in Los Angeles, and I picked a location, but it turns out no one we work with was available. So I had to drive down it. It's a very scary, weird location in a, like a place. It's adjacent to a place called Vernon, which is the scariest part of Los Angeles. Very

Lindsay (00:59:35):

Industrial,

Moby (00:59:35):

Very industrial. No one around, middle of nowhere. And he's from Jamaica. And he took a cab there, I think, from the airport, and he arrives and he's like, lost because it's, it's dark and weird and confusing. Finally, he finds me and he, he was expecting, I think like a real video shoot as in like, it was Moby

Lindsay (01:00:02):

With a camera.

Moby (01:00:02):

It was me with a camera and my playback. So oftentimes when you do playback, there's like someone whose job is to play the song through big, loud speakers, you know, so the musicians can get into it. You know what, I had

Lindsay (01:00:16):

Your

Moby (01:00:16):

Phone, my phone. So he's trying to get emotionally involved in the song while listening to it off of my phone. Aw. Just the two of us. He, he wasn't, you could just tell he was a little bit taken aback that it was perhaps not up to a level of professional standards that anyone else would have, as opposed to just me and my van and a phone and a camera.

Lindsay (01:00:42):

I mean, it's kind of fun though, right?

Moby (01:00:43):

I think the video's great. He rose to the occasion, but I, I could, of course, I could tell he was like, what am I doing in the middle of nowhere? I've just come here from Jamaica and there's this bald guy with a phone and a cheap camera. But the video's fantastic. It's great.

Lindsay (01:00:59):

Yeah, it's great. What's next? Ooh, We're Going Wrong.

Moby (01:01:05):

Let's listen to, we're going wrong. Okay. So We're Going Wrong. This is a cover song originally written by Jack Bruce for the band cream, you know, with Eric Clapton and Ginger Baker before Eric Clapton became an insane Right-wing, Anti-Vaxxer.

Lindsay (01:02:01):

He's, he's known True tragedy.

Moby (01:02:04):

Yeah.

Lindsay (01:02:04):

Not that that's an excuse, but I, I

Moby (01:02:07):

Feel that. I saw a picture of him recently with Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas, and I was like, what happened? Like, how did you become an anti-vaxxer Hanging out with Greg Abbott from Texas

Lindsay (01:02:15):

Life is long and weird.

Moby (01:02:17):

So I don't even think Eric Clapton was involved in this song. It's a Jack Bruce song, and it's beautiful.

Lindsay (01:02:24):

It's so beautiful

Moby (01:02:27):

And it's political. It's not it, and I, what I love is that the lyrics, it's an intersection of it's politics, but it's also humanity. It's, it's, it's sort of about a relationship, but I think it's more about us. Like, it's about our species.

Lindsay (01:02:43):

We're we're not doing it. Right. Yeah. We're making big mistakes.

Moby (01:02:47):

So, yeah. And my friend Brie O'Banion, we've been friends for quite a long time. And I got really lucky 'cause I didn't know she had such a special voice. And I heard her sing at a wedding a while ago, and I was like, oh my goodness, where did that voice come from? Like, she's just this nice little smart person with this deep, rich, phenomenal, talented voice. So yeah, I got really lucky finding out that my friend has this dark, powerful, rich voice.

Lindsay (01:03:26):

Her voice is beautiful, and the song is gorgeous. It just turned out so great. Remember the music video?

Moby (01:03:35):

Remember? Oh, yeah. The music,

Lindsay (01:03:35):

We got that weird animation. We had to figure out what to do with it.

Moby (01:03:38):

<Laugh>. Yeah. The music video was definitely a struggle. I don't wanna, I mean, the, the poor guy who made it, I think he was battling a bunch of things. So like, he sent us a, a like a minute of

Lindsay (01:03:51):

Not much, not much kind of unfinished and not Yeah.

Moby (01:03:53):

And we're like, oh my goodness, what are we gonna do? We have to finish this. And as a result, it might not be, let's say, like one of the most perfectly realized music videos in my canon of video output.

Lindsay (01:04:06):

No, definitely not. But, you know, we worked with what we had and I think that the message comes across,

Moby (01:04:11):

Okay, what's

Lindsay (01:04:12):

Next? Octopus? Yes.

Moby (01:04:13):

So, Fall Back Akemi Fox, this was one of the first songs to be made for the record. She's from Manchester as well. And I can't remember who sent me her voice, but I just really appreciated, she's got this jazz background. And so her approach to phrasing, to lyric writing, like, it just, it felt very, like, it wasn't too jazzy, but you could tell it had sort of like this formal jazz training attached to it. And she was the first person I sent music to on this record. And so there was that nervous, I don't know, expectation on my part. Oh, by the way, should we listen to it? We haven't listened to it. Oh, yeah. Okay. So let's play it. And then everything I said will hopefully make sense.

Moby (01:05:38):

So as mentioned, she was the first person I collaborated with on this record. So there I am. I send this music across the world through the internet machine to her. And I was like, I don't know what she's gonna send back. I don't know what lyrics she's gonna send back. I don't know what vocal melody she's gonna send back. And it arrived. And I, because I'm a timid, frightened little person, I, I had to wait a little while to open it up. I, I was kind of scared, like intimidated, like uhoh, what if I open it up and I don't like it?

Lindsay (01:06:07):

Or what if you open it up and you like it too much and it hurts you?

Moby (01:06:10):

Yeah. Which has happened many times. But I opened it up. It was the encouragement I needed that this approach was working, making music with people I'd never met from people who lived eight, 10, 15,000 miles away. 'cause Her lyrics were great. Her vocal phrasing, everything was great. And I realized, oh, there's so much talent out there. There's so many accomplished, remarkable people who just need to be given an opportunity. Yeah. So I hope that with everybody's case, but especially hers, I hope that somehow this has drawn people to her and that made people more aware of who she is and what she's doing.

Lindsay (01:06:51):

I hope so. I really love her voice. The lyrics are great. She's cool. This is a fun song. Little,

Moby (01:06:58):

A little sad too. Yeah. There

Lindsay (01:06:59):

Some sadness, but like, you know, there's a sadness to

Moby (01:07:00):

It. I mean, the first line is, leave me alone. So it's like, well,

Lindsay (01:07:03):

Yeah, but that's nice.

Moby (01:07:04):

Yeah. Not being, oh, trust me, I love,

Lindsay (01:07:06):

I love a boundaried queen.

Moby (01:07:08):

<Laugh>. You made me laugh again. You're messing up my earth. Makeup

Lindsay (01:07:13):

<Laugh>.

Moby (01:07:14):

Okay,

Lindsay (01:07:15):

Next.

Moby (01:07:16):

Okay. Sweet Moon with Choklate.

Lindsay (01:07:18):

Sweet Moon With Choklate. I love Choklate. Alright. Talk about a boundaried queen. Well,

Moby (01:07:23):

Let's, let's play it. Okay. Okay. Okay. So here's Sweet Moon with Choklate

Moby (01:08:12):

Okay, so another confession. This is the third song that I wrote the lyrics to.

Lindsay (01:08:16):

Really? Yes. I love the lyrics to this song.

Moby (01:08:20):

Thank you. So, and obviously Choklate. We've become good friends with her. She's coming on tour with me in September. She played with us at the Hollywood Masonic Temple recently. And the reason I wrote the lyrics is because I didn't have that much time with her and I wanted to, I loved her voice and I was like, okay, we gotta try and get as much done as possible. And if we're writing lyrics, that might take up time that otherwise we, we could be recording. And so, yeah. So that's why I ended up being the lyricist as well as the song person.

Lindsay (01:08:55):

But I love the lyrics to this. I actually think they're very, very special. What inspired these ones?

Moby (01:09:00):

I mean, it's the sort of, I don't even know how to... Not that it's complicated or even interesting, is the place of like ambiguous imagery where it's like, it's like some songs are about one thing, Neil Young's Ohio is about one thing. Leonard Cohen's Chelsea Hotel. It's just, there's more involved, but it's about really about one thing. Whereas this is a cult, like just poetic ambiguity. It's about a feeling. But in my mind it's also this, this notion of desolation. , you know, it's, it's coming from a place of southern gothic emptiness,

Lindsay (01:09:42):

But also a little bump and grind. Really? Yeah. Don Don, Don Don really don't at that baseline really. It's doing a lot of like, a lot of sensual work. Wow. That's gonna go on some eggplant playlists.

Moby (01:09:55):

Wow. I wouldn't think, 'cause the song has such a sort of like southern gothic quality to it. I

Lindsay (01:10:01):

Can't that bass line. It's the bass line. Okay.

Moby (01:10:04):

How And that, that never even, I mean, granted, what do I know from dating? It's been a long time <laugh>, but like, it never even crossed my mind that there was a sensuality to this

Lindsay (01:10:13):

Because I was like, Sweet Moon. And her voice is so like Yeah.

Moby (01:10:18):

Goey

Lindsay (01:10:18):

And like,

Moby (01:10:19):

Oh yeah. Now that you're talking about it, I guess, I mean, I was just imagining sort of like, I don't know, like southern gothic vampires looking at each other from across a I'm talking about like, my idea of like the sensuality for this song. Oh yeah. Wouldn't necessarily involve humans or sensuality, but

Lindsay (01:10:36):

Then the vampires walk across the water and then they kiss.

Moby (01:10:39):

Mm. Yeah. That's not in my vision, but I, they sink

Lindsay (01:10:41):

Into the water and then they become sea demons and then they kiss more. Oh,

Moby (01:10:45):

The sea demon part. You had me at that. Yeah. So yeah. So I guess maybe I just have a stunted idea of sensuality that doesn't necessarily involve my own music.

Lindsay (01:10:57):

I love that you're making sexy music and you don't even know it <laugh>. Hmm.

Moby (01:11:03):

Okay.

Lindsay (01:11:04):

Anyway. Okay.

Moby (01:11:05):

So

Lindsay (01:11:05):

Put that on your eggplant playlist.

Moby (01:11:07):

But Choklate is wonderful and amazing. I hope to do lots of things with her in the future. 'cause She's a pretty special force of nature. Her

Lindsay (01:11:15):

Voice is amazing. And she is a dreamboat and Choklate forever.

Moby (01:11:20):

I mean, we had never played live together. And on our first night playing live, she basically stopped the show to lead the entire audience in a breath work meditation.

Lindsay (01:11:30):

It was incredible.

Moby (01:11:30):

And I was like, you know, you know what? Great. And then the second night she tried to say something nice to me and I crawled under the piano. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:11:36):

She tried to compliment Moby and it made Moby feel very

Moby (01:11:39):

Sweet. No, I don't like that. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:11:41):

<Laugh>.

Moby (01:11:42):

Okay, so moving on. I think we're at the last song.

Lindsay (01:11:44):

Is this the last song, Mike? The Ache For.

Moby (01:11:47):

Let's listen to Ache For.

José James (singing) (01:11:50):

Maybe I didn't do all the things that you loved and maybe that were things we could have said. Never knew all the things you could have done. Maybe I never knew or maybe I never What do you, what do you what?

Moby (01:12:57):

So just to be clear, it's the last song because it's the quietest, prettiest song on the record. It's not last. 'cause I'm like, oh, gotta throw this on here somewhere. It's more last because it's the perfect closing song.

Lindsay (01:13:12):

It's the perfect closing song.

Moby (01:13:13):

So José James, he and his wife wrote this song and the lyrics are so poignant. It's a very meaningful song to him. I don't know if he wants to tell people what it's about. He can, I don't feel comfortable saying what it's about because

Lindsay (01:13:28):

It's their thing. Their

Moby (01:13:29):

Thing.

Lindsay (01:13:29):

Also, José and his wife are this amazing music duo and she's this fantastic writer. Yeah. And Baker, apparently Mm-Hmm. Bakes a Fantastic cake, which I know from her Instagram. But the song, the lyrics are so beautiful and his voice is so gorgeous.

Moby (01:13:47):

I mean, there's a reason why he's increasingly just revered. 'cause Like who else sings like that? Like who can do that? Like that jazz voice, but it's still so modern. But

Lindsay (01:14:01):

Also he's like so cool and has the coolest sense of style. Yeah. Yeah. He's just,

Moby (01:14:05):

He's can I, can I reveal one fun secret about the video? Yeah. Okay. So the song was released in December and the video is a winter wonderland. where you and I and some of our friends went to New York and like, I shot in the snow. It's a beautiful winter celebration. It's magical. The video that we shot here with you on drums. There's a roaring fire and Jose's looking out the window. It was August and it was 95 degrees. It was

Lindsay (01:14:36):

So hot. And we were trying to make it seem cold.

Moby (01:14:39):

So I think that's so funny that like, it's a winter wonderland video, but the footage of him and you and me and the video was actually shot in August in Los Angeles.

Lindsay (01:14:49):

Yeah. That was really, really funny. I remember trying to like color it so that it didn't look so bright and gorgeous. Yeah. And we were trying to like, find angles that made it look like it was possibly not like Yeah. He's

Moby (01:14:58):

<Laugh>. Yeah. He's looking out the window and we're like, okay, let's find the shot where there are not palm trees outside.

Lindsay (01:15:03):

Nope. And that was really, really hard. And it was just like the sunniest, brightest, prettiest day. Also remember when you were trying to teach me how to play those little Swooshy sticks?

Moby (01:15:10):

Yeah. Brushes. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:15:11):

Brushes. Yeah.

Moby (01:15:12):

Mm-Hmm. Swooshy sticks. I think forever made jazz brushes be called Swooshy sticks. In fact, I want to start a line of jazz brush drums that are called Swooshy sticks.

Lindsay (01:15:23):

I think it would go really well. It's a little levity, but it was kind of fun to do, honestly. Yeah.

Moby (01:15:28):

And you, you did great Swooshy stick drumming. is actually really simple. Oh, I'm not, I'm I'm not trying to demean <laugh> or, or denigrate your efforts, but I'm just saying like, someone who is not a drummer can do swooshy stick jazz drumming.

Lindsay (01:15:41):

Oh, I swooshy.

Moby (01:15:42):

Yeah. You did some really solid swooshy stick.

New Speaker (01:15:44):

I think I put on one of your suit jackets and my hair was still wet from showering before I came over here. <Laugh>. Yep. It was it was

Moby (01:15:51):

Pretty fun sitting by the roaring fire Yep. As the palm tree swayed in the 95 degree breeze outside. Yeah. Yeah. So that's all the music on the record. Wow.

Lindsay (01:15:59):

It's so fun. I mean, even just talking about it, it's like this, this record covers all of the emotional bases. Do you wanna cry in the wintertime? Ache For. Do you wanna dance in the summertime? Probably. What's Aynzli's song name again?

Moby (01:16:15):

Medusa. Medusa.

Lindsay (01:16:16):

Yeah.

Moby (01:16:17):

Well, I love your enthusiasm and I am thrilled that you wanted to do this sort of like, track by track look at the record. And I just hope everyone listening. I hope, I hope they've enjoyed it. 'cause We've never really done, like we've talked about me before, because I guess it's my name on the podcast. At some point we need to do a Lindsay and Bagel episode. Ooh. Just Lindsay and Bagel where I get to, I just ask you questions, readers ask you questions where we've turned all the cameras on you. That

Lindsay (01:16:46):

Sounds really

Moby (01:16:47):

Stressful. Okay. Then we don't have to do it. But I'd like to do that because I feel like even though it's my name on the podcast, I still feel like I'm, sometimes I'm the lions share receiving end of our attention. And like, granted, I am sort of a narcissist, but it makes me uncomfortable.

Lindsay (01:17:03):

Well, you're also a musician who's been working for a really long time and who people, a lot of people really, really like for the music you did. So that's, hopefully

Moby (01:17:11):

That applies to the new music as

Lindsay (01:17:13):

Well. I really hope so, honestly. And I'm, I'm not just blowing smoke. I really like it and I hope that people can have fun with it and enjoy it for like, it's like a good summertime album. Just play it. Listen <laugh>, it's a, it's a warm night you put on Sweet Moon, you know, you're walking through the city and you wanna feel really cool and like you, you know it all you put on Dark Days. Yeah. You know, you're in a new relationship and you're feel in love feelings, On Air.

Moby (01:17:40):

Yeah, you're right. A lot of basses are covered. .

Lindsay (01:17:44):

It's a, it's a wonderful album and I hope that people listen and enjoy and I hope everyone likes as much as I like it.

Moby (01:17:51):

And if you're in lower Manhattan in the summer, I mean now it's completely overrun with tourists. But maybe just squint your eyes or late at night, like, listen to Feelings Come Undone. And just think of like when Soho was empty. Think of when Tribeca literally didn't exist. Like it was just warehouses and I mean it existed, but it was warehouses and cobblestone streets. Just remember what that nostalgia, what New York was like in the seventies and the eighties. The weirdness that emptiness, everything looked like a Deko painting or an Edward Hopper painting. And think of little me at age 16 wandering around looking for record stores. I had hair, I was wide-eyed. I didn't even wear glasses back then. So

Lindsay (01:18:36):

Crazy. Yeah. Whole different guy.

Moby (01:18:38):

I'm basically just a scared little 16-year-old looking for record stores and bars and nightclubs.

Lindsay (01:18:44):

Yeah. Well I love that. And I love the story behind it. What you're

Moby (01:18:47):

Trying and big love to. Woke up from her nap and she's sleeping. Did you wake

Lindsay (01:18:49):

Up from your nap? Oh.

Moby (01:18:50):

And she's making her little soft face. Yay. You

Lindsay (01:18:52):

Sleep face. Okay. Well thanks everybody for joining us for this journey of Always Centered at Night. I hope that it was really fun for you. It was really fun for me to hear about it. I'm also really grateful to the people that are watching the video that you've accepted us in our true form. And now, you know, and we'll go back to our Earth, earth forms after this. Should we thank people?

Moby (01:19:13):

Yeah. Well thank you Mike Formanski for overseeing all the video and the video editing. Thank you Jonathan Nesvadba for editing all the audio and making it sound delightful.

Lindsay (01:19:26):

Making us sound cooler than we are.

Moby (01:19:28):

And thank you human content for taking all of this and putting it out into the world, into your eye and ear orifices. I don't like the word orifice. Why

Lindsay (01:19:38):

Do I say it's not a nice

Moby (01:19:38):

Word? Okay, so, so your, I

Lindsay (01:19:39):

It's like you can't pronounce office. Yeah.

Moby (01:19:42):

Ew. Okay. Like there's a lot of words. You know what other words I don't like? Sure. I don't like the word brew. Like when someone says like, it's a nice brew, I'm like, oh, I dunno why I really dislike that word.

Lindsay (01:19:52):

Suddenly I really understand it's Yeah. When you say it, it's, it is upsetting.

Moby (01:19:55):

Something kind of, or another thing I don't like when someone refers to fresh fruit, like my manager Eric, when he's in LA he'll be like, oh, he's German. He's like, can I have a plate of fresh fruit? I'm like, you just want fruit <laugh>. If they, if it's not fresh, what is it? They're not gonna bring you a plate of rotting fruit. Why do you need,

Lindsay (01:20:11):

Can you imagine, imagine

Moby (01:20:12):

That because why wouldn't that apply to all food?

Lindsay (01:20:14):

Fresh burger.

Moby (01:20:16):

Vegan Burger. Yeah. Like, well obviously, but like why fresh? Okay. Yeah. These are the incredibly minor mundane things that occupy me when I'm in the shower crying.

Lindsay (01:20:28):

Okay. We'll let you get back to that in just a moment. But I also wanna say thank you to Gabby Grave who helped us evoke our true forms today. Yeah.

Moby (01:20:37):

Who took off our human makeup and revealed our true forms. Mm-Hmm.

Lindsay (01:20:39):

<Affirmative>. So thanks Gabby for that. That was great. Anyway, we'll see you guys next time. And thanks

Moby (01:20:44):

Bagel.

Lindsay (01:20:45):

Oh yeah. Thanks Bagel for sleeping on your octopus. She has a little octopus thing. Okay.

Moby (01:20:50):

And we'll see you in two weeks. See you in two weeks. Bye. Bye.