Lindsay (00:00:09):

Hi. Oh, hi. How are you guys? So we're celebrating today. I don't know if you knew. Yeah. But <laugh>, um, so 25 years ago before I was born. Just kidding. Um, an album was released called Play by our dear Friend Moy. And Yeah. Right. Big Deal. Um, it was confirmed Platinum people say many people, ones I trust say it's the biggest electronic album in history. So we're celebrating. It's a big deal. So tonight we're going to talk about everything that led up to the release of play and everything that happened to Moby and everything that he put into creating this album and getting it out into the world. So, speaking of Moby, do you wanna come hang out with me? <laugh>.

Moby (00:01:29):

Hi. Thank you guys for coming out tonight.

Lindsay (00:01:37):

Um, so I just wanna take a second to talk about where we are. We are in the Masonic Lodge. Okay. So this room that we're in used to be where they did the

Moby (00:01:48):

Ritual sacrifices. No,

Speaker 4 (00:01:50):

<laugh>.

Lindsay (00:01:52):

I don't know if the Masons were into sacrifice, but I guess if they were, they wouldn't tell anyone. No. This is where they used to do their midnight funeral ceremonies. So this is what they used to do in this room. You're

Moby (00:02:04):

Making me scared. I'm like, yeah. I've gone from like nervous and uncomfortable to now actually being uncomfortable and scared. Do you

Lindsay (00:02:11):

Like it?

Moby (00:02:12):

It's kinda like the range of my emotions in general.

Lindsay (00:02:15):

<laugh>. I thought so. Yeah. So, okay. This is what they would do, you guys, it's so crazy. So they would come in with the coffin into the room, and they would file in with the coffin, with the pallbearers holding the coffin, and they would all have their candles. So it was pitch dark aside from the candles. So then they get in and they all are surrounding the coffin, and then they all blow out the candles at one time. And then, so it's completely dark. And the pallbearers do something really cool, which is they open a secret door in the floor, and then the coffin goes through it, and then they pull the doors closed, and it's as if the coffin disappeared. And then they, they light the candles again. It's funeral magic. So that's what they used to do in here before, but women weren't allowed then. And, you know, it was a whole different time. Also, I don't think the masons do anything in here anymore. So Moby, at some point you were a child, I assume.

Moby (00:03:08):

Hmm. <laugh>. Possibly. Although I've always had a theory that the perfect way for an alien race, we've talked about this before, to understand humans would be to manufacture a perfectly human, human and give it memories of its own humanity. So it thinks it's human and it has human experiences, but the truth is, it's a cybernetic organism sending information back to the home world.

Lindsay (00:03:33):

Okay. Well, regardless of whether your childhood was real

Moby (00:03:36):

Or not, <laugh>,

Lindsay (00:03:38):

Do you recall any experiences as a child with music? You know, like hearing music, any musical moments that really like, deeply touched you that you think may have set you on a different path than maybe the average person? Yeah.

Moby (00:03:51):

The, one of my very, very, very first memories when I was about three years old was I was in the car with my mom and we were living in Danbury, Connecticut in a weird Victorian rooming house, uh, by a prison. And my dad had just died. It was a cold, sad time. And we, we were very, very poor. So we were in this like literally rusted out car where you could see the road through the bottom of the car, and on am radio Proud Mary by credence. Clearwater Rev arrival came on, and this is one of my first memories, is I steadfastly refused to get out of the car until the song had ended <laugh>, but it was like early March, Danbury, Connecticut, which is not a happy place, and it's cold and it's raining, and the car doesn't have heat. And my mom's smoking cigarettes and she's mad. She's like, why won't you get outta the car? I was like, this song. And I was transfixed. And I really do believe at that moment she could've predicted two things that I'd grow up to be a musician and I would grow up to be an alcoholic drug addict.

Lindsay (00:04:56):

<laugh> <laugh>. Well, good for her, I guess. Yeah. <laugh>. And which, which leads me to my, leads me to my next question, which is like, if you had to describe what you were like as a child, okay. Like your personality, your,

Moby (00:05:09):

How you went about it in so far as I have any semblance of self-awareness or objectivity around that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is best described by my high school yearbook. So in my high school yearbook, I don't know if anyone else had this, they had a thing called the high school legacy. And it was like, if you were known for driving a red Jetta, it'd be like, Joe leaves us his red Jetta. Lindsay leaves us her shirt, Lindsay leaves us, her red shirt Bagel leaves us her fancy Gucci dog thing. <laugh>. So everybody had like, a so and so leaves us something. Like, if someone was known for skiing, so and so leaves us their skis. Mine was, Moby leaves us wondering <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:05:57):

Wow.

Moby (00:05:58):

That sums it up perfectly. Like, yeah. And I read that and I was like, I think, I think I'm flattered <laugh>. Like, I don't know if they meant it to be flattering, but I was like, I'm kind of flattered by that.

Lindsay (00:06:11):

It's so funny because I assume that like, life has made you this way, but you've just always been this way.

Moby (00:06:17):

Yeah. I mean, heredity, <laugh>, et cetera, experience. I, I don't know, nature nurture. I'm the product of who knows. Also, my mom might have done acid when she was pregnant with me. <laugh>. It's possible. <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:06:31):

Well, whatever it did, I mean, I'm not mad at it. Okay. Um, I, what I wanna know now is when you started to pick up instruments, when you started to learn how to play music

Moby (00:06:45):

Well, 'cause everyone in my family is some sort of oddball creative Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. You know, my mom was a painter who also played piano, and my uncle was a photographer who also played classical flute and recorder. So everyone did all sorts of different things. So I was always around musical instruments. But what really prompted it was my mom had terrible taste in men. Like, she dated the worst scumbags you can imagine, like drug dealers and Hell's Angels. And oftentimes when they left her, they would leave records and equipment at our house. So there'd be like guitars and stuff, and I'd be like, huh, okay, age seven, there's a guitar. No one's playing it. I guess I should learn how to play it. And then when I was nine, my mom found an amazing musician who would give me free classical guitar lessons. Hmm. They might've been dating, I'm not sure. He wasn't enough of a scumbag for her to date her. Uh, like I don't think he'd ever killed anyone or sold drugs to school kids. So <laugh>. But yes, when I was nine, I started studying music theory and classical guitar. In fact, soon I'm going to play one of the first things I ever learned to play on classical guitar.

Lindsay (00:08:02):

Do you wanna play something right now? It's

Moby (00:08:04):

Up to you.

Lindsay (00:08:04):

I think. Yeah, let's do it.

Moby (00:08:06):

Um, so this from the album play, this was actually the first song that was written for play. And it was a demo recorded to cassette. And I sent it around to a bunch of singers and no one responded. And so I kept listening to it and I was like, you know, this cassette demo is actually kind of nice. And I had this hummed vocal line and I thought maybe I'll just put the cassette demo on the album. And so the version on play, it's actually a demo recorded to cassette. And what's funny, it was licensed to a bunch of big movies. And I was like, do you know you're paying to license a cassette demo? <laugh> and cassette, actual cassette, like Jeep Radio Shack C 30 cassette. Um, okay, ready? Well, thanks. So,

Moby (00:12:13):

Okay. So as I mentioned, when I was nine years old, I started studying music theory and classical guitar. And, uh, which is funny 'cause years ago when Eminem said nobody listened to techno, I was like, yeah, I'm, I'm a classical guitarist. What are you talking about <laugh>? In case he still hasn't apologized. I hold so much resentment. <laugh>. No, I wish him well. So this song, if I can remember how to play, it was interesting. When I was 10, my guitar teacher taught me how to, it was handle Sara Band. It's a famous piece of music. Um, and so I learned it on classical guitar at age 10. And then my mom, who was a classical pianist, gave me this fun little challenge. She said, oh, now play it on piano. And I was like, but I don't know how to play piano. She said, well, figure it out. So what I'm gonna try and do, and I did it with the Philadelphia Philharmonic, and I don't know if, if it worked, but maybe it won't work tonight as well. Sorry, Chris. Thank you guys. How was that? Was that okay?

Lindsay (00:16:49):

I liked it. Um, no, it's, it's ama amazing and beautiful and I'm like, wow, they're gonna play this beautiful music and I'm gonna come on here and be a <laugh>.

Moby (00:16:58):

Um,

Lindsay (00:16:59):

Um, no, that was really, really very gorgeous. What a fun challenge that they gave you. Yeah. To be like, figure it out. That's beautiful. It's like, figure out how this bicycle works by taking it apart or something, you know? Yeah, it was, that's exactly what

Moby (00:17:12):

It is. Um, I mean, also I had a lot of free time growing up,

Lindsay (00:17:16):

<laugh>. I didn't, I mean, remember free time. I feel like free time now is like <laugh>. Um, you know, that was

Moby (00:17:22):

Scrolling. Like

Lindsay (00:17:25):

You make, that's how you scroll. Okay. So to to, let's, let's get into the questions again 'cause I'm loving it personally. Um, okay. Let's talk about,

Moby (00:17:34):

I gotta keep checking in 'cause I'm so insecure. Is everyone having a nice time? You sure? Okay. Um,

Lindsay (00:17:44):

Um, okay. So let's talk

Moby (00:17:45):

About, by the way, when when I was back there and you were talking Yeah. You're funny. Really? Yeah.

Lindsay (00:17:51):

Thanks. That's a really nice thing to say. Like, like a good, in a good way.

Moby (00:17:54):

Yeah. In a good, yeah.

Lindsay (00:17:55):

Okay, good. Okay. That's really nice. Thanks Mel. Um, okay, so here's a question. Your influences your musical influences kind of very, very early. I'm talking teens. What were your musical influences then? And then also after that, can you talk about what they're now?

Moby (00:18:13):

Okay. So when I was growing up, my influence was the radio. 'cause that's all I had. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I would listen to Casey Casey's American Top 40 every single week. And then I did a panel with him in like 1992 or 93. And he said my name and I got to hear with Casey Cassim's voice, who was also the voice of Shaggy from Scooby-Doo. I got to hear him say my name and like, every now and then when you hear these legend, like I did a song with Public Enemy and I got to hear Chuck D and Flava Flav say my name and like, just sounded so interesting. Wow. Or like David Bowie would call and I would hear my name being said by David Bowie, but Casey Kason. Oh. Um, so yeah. So I would listen to radio obsessively <laugh>,

Lindsay (00:19:04):

Something had

Moby (00:19:05):

Exploded. <laugh>. I know.

Lindsay (00:19:07):

Okay.

Moby (00:19:08):

That was awesome. And, and so it was, but this was the mid seventies, so it was the most eclectic weird period. It was Kiss and Donna Summer and Elton John and ELO and the Eagles. And it was amazing. Uh, and then when I was able to start buying records, I had a dirty hidden secret, which was David Bowie new Wave and punk rock, because when I was in eighth and ninth grade, the cool kids made it very clear, we don't listen to David Bowie New Wave or punk rock. It was way too weird. Yeah. Oh, because they were, they, they had long hair. They wore Molly Hatchett shirts, they listened to Skynyrd. Nothing wrong with Skynyrd and Molly Hatchet, but, um, it was very clear you couldn't listen to music made by people with short hair. And so, my friends and I, but, and it might sound ridiculous now, but like, we went to go see Talking Heads in Central Park in 1981.

Lindsay (00:20:12):

Wow.

Moby (00:20:13):

And we bought T-shirts, bootleg t-shirts for $5 a piece. And we wore them to school. And we were like, we, we feel like we're taking our lives into our hands. <laugh>. And the biggest insult, I'm sure that some middle-aged people like me from Connecticut might remember this, the biggest insult you could ever level at someone. Devo like the, like the jocks would be walking down the hallway. They'd see me with my like, weird short hair and my talking head T-shirt. And they'd be like, yeah, Devo. I'm like, yeah, okay. It's kinda like when people make fun of vegans by saying, yeah, bacon. I'm like, that's not a joke. That's a thing.

Lindsay (00:20:52):

<laugh>. So now I wanna talk about, 'cause the, oh no. Now what are your musical influences? Now we didn't get there. So

Moby (00:20:58):

When I first got Spotify, and I don't know if anyone else is guilty of this, I thought, this is great. I'm gonna discover so much new music. Most of the new music I've discovered is at least 50 years old

Lindsay (00:21:12):

<laugh>.

Moby (00:21:13):

Like recently I went on a deep dive and like, like obscure sixties r and b in Soul, um, early reggae from the late sixties, early seventies. Every now and then I'll find out like, what were the big hits in 1932 <laugh>. I find that so much more interesting than listening to Modern Top 40. Like, so, so I use it, it's almost like going to the Smithsonian or something, like finding these weird old records from the forties, fifties, sixties. And as a result, I know nothing about modern music. I've never heard a Taylor Swift song.

Lindsay (00:21:49):

You've been to a grocery store. You have and you don't know it.

Moby (00:21:52):

Okay.

Lindsay (00:21:53):

<laugh>. Um, can you please tell us about the first time that you played music live in front of other people?

Moby (00:22:07):

The first show I ever actually played was to an audience of one person who happened to be a dog.

Lindsay (00:22:14):

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Moby (00:22:15):

My punk rock band V and Commandos. We dragged our equipment into an empty field in Connecticut and invited all of our non-friends and no one showed up. The only person who showed up was John, the other guitar player's dog, Sparky <laugh>. So the first show was actually to an audience of one tiny dog who left during the first song <laugh>. Um, but the first, that sounds

Lindsay (00:22:39):

Like really, like a really

Moby (00:22:40):

Fun, it was fun. We, we loved it. Like we even like moved around a little bit. Yeah. <laugh>, um, like

Lindsay (00:22:45):

Together, like in, like in

Moby (00:22:46):

Unison, no choreography, no more like cool musicians. Oh, I see. Like, like making sure we didn't make eye contact with each other. 'cause I was way too intimate. You

Lindsay (00:22:52):

Can't look at someone in the eye when you doing that. So,

Moby (00:22:55):

Uh, the second time for actual humans was in Celia Cuddy's backyard. She was the, in Celia. She was this super cool incr. I loved her so much and she had no, she didn't even know I existed except for having me play in her backyard. And we played like Clash covers Richard Helen the Void covers, and there were I think three people drinking beer outta solo cups.

Lindsay (00:23:18):

<laugh>. That's nice. Yeah. It sounds like maybe a supportive group. At least

Moby (00:23:22):

It wasn't terrible. Good. And I held onto the hope that maybe it would make Celia Cudi fall in love with me. <laugh> did it, it did not know. Oh, I'm

Lindsay (00:23:30):

Sorry. Yeah, maybe now wherever you are, Celia, or not that you would, you know. Anyway, uh, next, um, <laugh>, um, let's talk about electronic music and when you discovered it and where you were in your life and what that was like.

Moby (00:23:48):

Well, really it was science fiction. Um, you know, in the late sixties, I'm, I'm so old, but in the late sixties into the early seventies, I loved science fiction. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and science fiction meant electronic music, whether it was 2001 or Space 1999 or Star Trek or any, like, it was the sound of the future. And clearly I wasn't alone because in the mid seventies everyone started experimenting with electronic music, even bands like Yes and Sticks. But then Donna Summer made with Giorgio Moroder the greatest piece of electronic music ever, which was, I feel love. Oof. Still nothing has been, nothing has beat that as far as perfect electronic dance music. Yeah. It's, there's a great, do you guys know the story of when, um, Brian Eno first heard? I Feel Love. It's a really good story. They were, um, Brian and David Bowie were in Berlin making, I believe heroes. And Brian Eno came into the studio with the 12 inch single of I Feel Love. And he stopped what they were doing, Tony Visconti and everybody, he said, listen to this. And they, he played the entire eight minute version at the end of it. He said, that is the greatest piece of music ever made. And I still think that's true.

Lindsay (00:25:11):

<laugh>. Yeah, me too.

Moby (00:25:13):

Did I mention David Bowie and I were friends? Sorry. Good. I'm gonna get named off. Okay.

Lindsay (00:25:17):

Don't worry. We'll get there. Yeah. Hold your horses. So I'm gonna ask one more little question and then we'll have some more music and maybe have some singers. What was your first attempt, or maybe it was, maybe it was successful, your first attempt at electronic music yourself?

Moby (00:25:36):

So, um, in the, all these things sound so old because they are in the year 1982, my mom and my grandparents and my aunts and uncles gave me the coolest present. They gave me a Mattel synsonic drum machine. Mattel, the same company who brought you Barbie, et cetera, briefly made a drum machine.

Lindsay (00:26:03):

And you get so mad at Mattel. But yeah, thanks

Moby (00:26:06):

Mattel. Um, so this synsonic and so suddenly I brought it home and I plugged it into my tape deck and I was like, oh my God, I'm making electronic music. And then I borrowed someone's four track recorder and I stole cassettes from the language lab at Darien High School. Thanks Darien High School. And I started experimenting and then I bought a synthesizer at a garage sale for $20. And so I had a full electronic music set up, my little synthesizer, a microphone, a guitar amp, and my Mattel and Sonic drum machine <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:26:41):

That sounds really, really funny.

Moby (00:26:43):

Cute. Was horrible. Was so good. <laugh>. I mean, to be able to make every like as, as a solip cystic only child, to suddenly be able to make music and not have to wait for other people to show up <laugh> Paradise. And

Lindsay (00:27:00):

Still to this

Moby (00:27:01):

Day Yep. My, so system has not abated with time. Yeah, you've always been. Except for you and Bagel. Thank you.

Lindsay (00:27:07):

Yeah. Um, that's really fun. Okay. I think we're gonna sing a

Moby (00:27:10):

Song. Um, let's see how this goes. Here we are in the pouring home. Watch a light man fall a cone. Here we are in the pouring rain. I watch a light. Come over me

Speaker 5 (00:27:47):

Here.

Moby (00:28:14):

Gotta ask again. Is everyone still having a nice time? That's very kind of you to say thank you. Here we are in the pour and rain. Watch a live man full of here. We're in the pouring rain. Watch a life. Come over me

Speaker 5 (00:28:49):

Here. We're the all day

Moby (00:29:36):

Maya. You on a solo

Speaker 1 (00:30:04):

Here? We're north and we start, we ride all day looking here. We're the

Moby (00:31:10):

Thank.

Speaker 4 (00:31:14):

Um,

Lindsay (00:31:22):

Hey, that was really nice, what you just did. Oh, thanks. Okay. So now I wanna move into like a whole new era of life for you as far as like, my third degree goes <laugh>. Okay. Um, because that's what I'm doing. Um, okay. So do you remember your first DJ set? Oh yes. And do you remember like how you prepared and, you

Moby (00:31:42):

Know, so the year was 1984 ish.

Lindsay (00:31:48):

Stories are more fun when you do that motion.

Moby (00:31:50):

Okay. The year was 1984, <laugh> and I had dropped out of University of Connecticut because I was having debilitating panic attacks, like unceasing, terrible panic attacks to the point I just couldn't function. And so I dropped outta college and I moved home and it wasn't a happy time. You know, all my friends are at cool colleges. Like they're at Dartmouth and they're at Penn and they're at Princeton and even obscure places like Vassar and Mount Holyoke. And there I am, broke panicking, sleeping on my mom's couch. And it was just, I was like, what am I gonna do? And I started hanging out at this really weird bar called The Beat. And the Beat held at that time they got their occupancy raised to 60, but at that time they held, the fire department said you could have 42 people in here. And so it was this little hole in the wall in Portchester New York.

Moby (00:32:48):

And it was where the degenerates, it was where the punk rockers and the methadone addicts and everybody hung out there, all 42 of us. And <laugh>. I was there constantly. And I found the only thing that made the panic better was drinking. So I started drinking every night. And when I was drunk, the panic would go away. But, so I was spending all this time at the Beat and the owners, Tom and Fred felt sorry for me. And they said, do you know things? You're here all the time. Do you want to dj? And so they gave me Monday nights and they paid me $25 for six hours of work. Um,

Lindsay (00:33:28):

I mean, you were gonna be there anyway.

Moby (00:33:29):

Yeah. And I, and I only had about 25 records. So my first DJ set was like Joy Division and Johnny Cash and New Order. And I borrowed a bunch of my mom's records to sort of pad things out a little bit. So it was like Crosby, stills Nash and Young Into Joy Division. 'cause I was like, I only had 20 records, that's

Lindsay (00:33:51):

A party.

Moby (00:33:51):

And I didn't get fired and I just kept showing up. And then they gave me Wednesday nights I got a salary raise to $40 a night. Yeah, that's a big deal. Yep. That was more than $6 an hour. Uh, and then I started hanging out there during the day and practicing. And that was sort of what introduced me to the world of hip hop and early dance music. Um,

Lindsay (00:34:15):

And would you say that at, at some point it developed into DJing as a, as a real career? Did it happen very quickly after that? Or how did you go from the beat in Port Chester to New York City?

Moby (00:34:31):

Okay, so my next job when I was working at the beat, um, I got hired to play at an all ages club in Greenwich, Connecticut. Which it was in a church, which might sound like the least cool thing, but so many cool people went there. Like Chloe seven was there all the time. Um, Topher Grace was a regular, uh, will Wheaton from Star Trek used to go like it was the, the cool for an all ages non-alcoholic club in a church in Connecticut. It was really cool. And somehow, and I got paid $40 a night to DJ there and we played volleyball beforehand. It was great. Uh, but the whole time I, at this point I had moved out. I was living in an abandoned factory, which I loved pulling down a suite $1,200 a year from DJing. Wow. And didn't have running water, didn't have a shower. I didn't have a girlfriend, not surprisingly. And, but I wanted to DJ in New York so badly like this. Suddenly we're like, it's 1987 and DJ culture is the most exciting thing in the world. House music had just been invented. Hip hop was so exciting. Dance Hall reggae was exciting. And so I would make these tapes, these cassettes, I would make these DJ cassettes on one side would be house music and the other side hip hop. And I would even do like the artwork to try and make it look like graffiti. That's

Lindsay (00:35:58):

So cute.

Moby (00:35:58):

Yeah. And I would go into New York, I'd sneak in on Metro North sitting in the bathroom so I wouldn't have to pay the fair and then jump the turnstile and like go all over New York giving out these cassettes to bars, to radio stations, to nightclubs. And nothing ever happened. And then the most magical day, my friend Janet told me about a new club that was opening on the West Side Highway called Mars, where the standard hotel now is. Uh, and she said they're hiring. And so I went down there with my bag of cassettes and I waited in line and I got to the table, I can see it very clearly, where they were like giving out application forms for like barback busboy security. And I said, do you have an application for dj? And the woman just laughed at me. She said, no, of course not. And I said, well, can I give you a tape? And I gave her a tape. She laughed. I think she put it in a pile that night. Yuki Watanabe, who was booking the DJs, called me. I was the only person who had applied for a job as a dj. And so I got a job DJing at the coolest club in New York. 'cause he didn't know no one was gonna be applying for the job of DJ <laugh>.

Lindsay (00:37:17):

That is so lucky.

Moby (00:37:18):

And that was, yeah, I mean it was, words can't describe how dangerous and cool this, it was. Nothing cooler has ever existed. 'cause it was like all the rappers went there, like Big Daddy, king, Eric B and Rakim run, DMC, et cetera, et cetera. But all like the, the Voguers would go there, you know, like Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Madonna had just released Vogue, which is about, you know, the voguing scene. So all the people from the houses uptown, like Willie Ninja and Ru Paul would go there. Amazing. And there I was in the corner, this unwashed skinny little long hair back then. I had hair, white kid playing records. And I felt so privileged to be there.

Lindsay (00:38:00):

It sounds so fun. I wish I could go back in time and go there,

Moby (00:38:03):

But then you'd be old like me.

Lindsay (00:38:06):

I said, go back in time from now and then <laugh>. Um, so from there you had this huge DJ career, but at some point you switched into being an instrumentalist. What, how, how was that? I mean, 'cause I feel like a lot of people, when they start in a career in one place, it's really hard to get out of a niche. You

Moby (00:38:26):

Know what I'm saying? Well, 'cause I'd been a musician since I was nine and DJing was something really fun and exciting. But ultimately I was like, oh, I'm a musician. Yeah. And so one night, this guy, Jared Hoffman came to Mars and he said, oh, I love your DJ set. You know, do you ever make your own music? And I was like, as a matter of fact, I do. And I gave him a cassette with my demos and he said, we'd like to offer you a record deal. And I was like, oh my God, are you kidding? <laugh> I remember I was on the corner of 14th and seventh on a payphone, and I like called him and, and I was like, I'm gonna have a record deal. There were a few problems. One, they didn't have a name for the record label. They had never released records. They didn't have an office and they didn't know how to make records. But apart from that, I had a record deal. <laugh>,

Lindsay (00:39:18):

I feel like that guy found you on the day he decided to do it. And he was like, yep, this is happening. And

Moby (00:39:22):

You're, yeah. And then I, but I also like, so I set up my equipment in his living room. 'cause he had the day job working in a bank. And so during the day I would like clean the apartment, send faxes, take packages to UPS and the post office, I was the office boy. And when I wasn't going to UPS or the post office or cleaning the apartment, I would make music. And we invented all these different names for me. So it made it seem like there were five people on the label.

Lindsay (00:39:51):

So there were six artists on the label.

Moby (00:39:53):

It was just one

Lindsay (00:39:53):

Person. And it was all you

Moby (00:39:55):

<laugh>. Yeah. And that one person also happened to be the guy cleaning the bathroom and Yeah. Making sure that there was food in the fridge.

Lindsay (00:40:03):

Is that why you think, why you like to wear so many hats all the time now? 'cause it really,

Moby (00:40:06):

I don't, it just made sense. Yeah. It just, it was just, I was like, this is what you do. So

Lindsay (00:40:12):

That, I mean, did all of you do well on that label?

Moby (00:40:17):

Um, surprisingly, I mean, this was also, this is like 90, 91 and the first single was a song called Mobility. And it sold 1200 copies. And then the next single was the song Go, which sold half a million copies. So it went from like all of a sudden, like that was

Lindsay (00:40:32):

A banger.

Moby (00:40:33):

It went, yeah. I mean, went from nothing to suddenly flying across the Atlantic three times a month doing TV shows in Europe and playing raves and like, it was a, yeah.

Lindsay (00:40:45):

That's huge. I bet this this guy was like, Hey, doing, having a record label is easy <laugh>. But what about, um, what about your next label? 'cause after you, you were at one and then you went to another. What was that like? So

Moby (00:40:59):

Then Magic happened. Um, there was a, there still is a label called Mute Records and Mute Records. It was the, the king and queen and genderless le of all indie labels. Um, it started by Daniel Miller who wrote the song, warm Leatherette. Have you ever heard that? Um, Grace Jones did a, a version of it. Uh, Duran Duran did a cover version of it on a tour. It was really funny. Um, so, and then his first signing, second signing was Depeche Mode. Little Kids with Synthesizer Bing Bang here. Yeah. That's the way they sweat.

Lindsay (00:41:40):

That was so good.

Moby (00:41:42):

<laugh>.

Lindsay (00:41:43):

I almost can't look at it. It's too, too good. <laugh>.

Moby (00:41:47):

Yeah. Um, I did see Depeche Mode's first ever show, and it was very adorable. It was just like four nervous kids on stage. And they had one of those wind up monkeys going like this, doing drums. Yeah. So we should have one of those. So Daniel signed them and then, uh, Nick Cave and Erasure and Nire and on and on. Like these am like, it was such an amazing label. Yeah. Yeah. And he, so it was like the dream label and they asked me to be on that label. And I, I said, but, but yes, please. So I signed with Mute Records and then we made the album Everything Is Wrong. Which, um, did surprisingly well for a weird record made in my bedroom. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then for reasons that made so much sense to me at the time, I made the album Animal Rights, which, and

Lindsay (00:42:38):

I, everyone loved it. Yeah.

Moby (00:42:40):

<laugh> what a And it boy did it fail. It didn't just fail, but people, okay, a few, I I've told this story, but I'm just gonna name Drop a little bit. A few people liked it. Joe St. Drummer loved it from The Clash. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, bono told me that he loved it unconditionally 'cause some name dropping. Um, Axel Rose used to told me he would drive around LA listening to it on repeat. And here's the best one. Do you remember Terrence Trent? Darby Terrence Trent Darby wrote me a piece of fan mail on personalized purple Terrence Trent Darby, stationary <laugh>. So those four people liked it, no one else did. I mean,

Lindsay (00:43:21):

Those are pretty good though.

Moby (00:43:23):

So, but it was, I I, I had had a deal in the United States with Electra. They dropped me. Um, Daniel had never dropped an artist. And, and this guy

Lindsay (00:43:34):

Sounds great.

Moby (00:43:34):

Yeah. He's, he is a, a prince among humans. He had never dropped an artist. He clearly was not thrilled that I had become a Pariah slash has been. Uh, and they, and I was like, okay, well I guess, hmm. I don't have a label in the United States, but I guess I'll make one last record and then maybe go back to school. And so I started working on the album play, which I thought was going to be just the biggest. It was a very dark time. I had been dropped by my American record label. I was battling all sorts of mental illness, which I still am to this day, and drinking and doing drugs. And I was addicted to everything and I was going broke. And it was, it was bad. Like I, it was, things were really dark. Are

Lindsay (00:44:18):

You on a roll or can I chime

Moby (00:44:20):

In? I mean, I'm a self-involved narcissist, so I'm always kind of on the roll

Lindsay (00:44:24):

<laugh>. Okay. Because you had, you had been, at this point, you'd been a dj. You had done this punk rock album, which, whether people liked it or not, I think that's, I mean, it's amazing that you were capable of all of these different things. So it seems like you have a bit, a bit of a path in front of you to choose, you know what I mean? Like, you could have been probably a producer. Well, you could have done, I mean, you could have done so many things in the music industry. I guess something I'm interested in is why you chose what you chose.

Moby (00:44:57):

Well, for example, the year is 1997 <laugh>. Um, I'm doing my little hand gestures again later. I'll imitate Depeche Mode's first concert. Uh, so 1997, and I get the strangest call, Axl Rose wants me to produce the next Guns N Roses album. And I'm like, how do you even know who I am? <laugh>. And he flies me to Los Angeles, brings me to a studio, plays me a ton of music, and we become very friendly. I really, I still, he doesn't like me very much, but I still really like him. And so they gave me this offer, like, do it basically, it was like the fork in the road. Um, do you want to produce the Guns N Roses album and make a ton of money and become a producer or continue your, has been sad career as a musician where no one likes you? And I chose the latter. And he, and he still kind of resents me, but the latter. I was like, well, I'd really like to make this one last record and then maybe I'll figure out something to do. So it was like, produce Chinese democracy or make play,

Lindsay (00:46:02):

But you didn't know what either would become, but clearly you, you picked the right fork in the road. Yeah. That's, that makes sense. Um, do you, did you ever, at some point you were like, I could do all of this or I could just do none of it and become an accountant?

Moby (00:46:16):

Um, no, because I grew up so poor and I lived in an abandoned factory for a pretty long time. I was comfortable with that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. There was never, like, there was no material ambition. You know, I was happy not bathing. I was happy. Like in, in 19 when I moved to New York, I used to return cans and bottles to pay the rent. I was fine with that. Like, you stand in line with unhoused people and you return cans and bottles, no big deal. It was fine. So I didn't, I had no issue with that. So there was no like, oh, but I need to have a career path. No one in my family ever had a career path. They all did weird things. So I was like, that's what you do. You do weird things and you're always poor. And it's, and it's, but there was no complaining. It was just like, yeah, it's fine.

Lindsay (00:47:04):

Well, I'm glad you did what you did. And here's my idea. What if you play the next two songs all the way through?

Moby (00:47:11):

Okay.

Speaker 5 (00:47:25):

The down bend knees, talking to a man from G it sounds so sweet. Almight Rock, hide your Hand, work in the, with

Moby (00:49:06):

Some people. Go to church just to signify. Try to make a date with your neighbor's wife, brother. Lemme tell you shows you're born. You better leave that woman alone. Or go

Speaker 5 (00:49:19):

Tell that I,

Speaker 1 (00:50:33):

We go

Speaker 6 (00:50:38):

One down tear.

Speaker 1 (00:51:38):

Oh,

Speaker 6 (00:51:39):

For the goes down. That's all right. You can clap for that song down.

Speaker 1 (00:52:00):

You

Speaker 6 (00:52:00):

Know, I'm,

Speaker 1 (00:52:04):

Oh,

Speaker 6 (00:52:05):

And I'm gonna tear this house down. This one down. Come on. One tear the on hook down. One tear down.

Moby (00:53:46):

Okay. So in a slightly different, and a completely different vein, when we were thinking about performing tonight, and I realized I had so many amazing musicians, I was like, what have I never performed? And there's a song from play that's, it's very, it. I don't know if we're gonna be able to pull it off. It's very simple. If if it goes wrong, I blame myself. So I'll give it a try. I just gotta check in. Is everyone having a nice time?

Speaker 4 (00:57:07):

Okay.

Moby (00:57:09):

And I know that was a leading question. So

Lindsay (00:57:13):

Imagine one person stands up and they're like, eh, I have some notes. Yeah.

Moby (00:57:17):

<laugh>.

Lindsay (00:57:18):

I would be very interesting. So I'm very excited about the songs that are gonna play after this. So if you find me rushing, it's just pure thrill for a singer that's coming. Um, okay. So I wanna talk about play and making play. When did you, when did you start making play and what, what was going on in, in your personal life, in your world when you were making this album? Well,

Moby (00:57:42):

We sort of talked about this a little earlier. Yeah. Which was, I had been, I basically

Lindsay (00:57:47):

The album bit. What's that? I mean the, the record label bit.

Moby (00:57:50):

Yeah. And also, like, I was living on Mott Street in New York, uh, to contextualize it a little bit, bill Clinton was president. The internet was kind of knew the worldwide web seemed like it was going to be a force for like truth and honesty and direct communication. And it was, um, Russia was enacting democratic reforms. Boy, oh boy, things have gone wrong. Um, climate Change was an Al Gore book. That's it. Uh, so living on Mott Street, um, and I was like, yeah, I guess it's time to accept the fact that my career as a musician has come to an end. And luckily Daniel Miller, who talked about before is kind enough to let me make this one last record.

Lindsay (00:58:40):

Did you tell him what you had in mind? Or was he just like, do something I

Moby (00:58:44):

No, he was very, he, he, I would send, so here's how you used to send music to the UK back then. The years 19 97, 19 98, I would put demos on a cassette. I would walk to the FedEx on Broadway between Prince and Spring. I would fill out customs forms. I would then send him the cassette and two weeks later he would get it.

Lindsay (00:59:07):

Oh my gosh.

Moby (00:59:08):

Yeah. It was, and the world was a very different place back then, the

Lindsay (00:59:11):

Anticipation.

Moby (00:59:13):

Um, and so I was just working on this music, but there was complete freedom because he didn't expect anything. No one expected anything. I was a, has been, I was, I mean, I'm not, I'm not just being like self-deprecating. Like I was kind of washed up 19 97, 19 98, like no one, we, I would go on tour and play shows and like 20 people would show up. So it was the first show on the tour for play, which I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit, was in a basement of a record store. It was a free show. And 25 people came. <laugh>. That's how it was like, yeah. So the expectations for play were so low, but it was kind of, it was depressing, but liberating. So

Lindsay (00:59:56):

You didn't, you wouldn't say you felt pressure none whatsoever when making this album. You were like, I can do whatever I want. And throw caution to the wind. Do you think that that mentality is something that might've led to it being such a success? Is that you're

Moby (01:00:11):

Yeah. And also 'cause it was a time similar to now of these like expensive manufactured pop records. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, pop records made by committee. Um, not to criticize, but like, it was the Backstreet Boys, it was nsync, it was, you know, like Max Martin, who did he Nice guy writes phenomenal pop songs. But it was, it was a machine. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and major labels spending millions of dollars just to make a record. And there's weird little old, anxious alcoholic has been me, literally in my bedroom with old broken down equipment. I was sleeping under the stairs like Harry Potter and I made a record and I was like, I'm not, I can't compete with the Max Martin machine, so I guess I'm not even gonna try. I am just gonna make a record that seems nice to me.

Lindsay (01:00:56):

And that was what you felt when you were making it. You were like, I really like this. Like you felt, yeah. You were like, whatever happens, I make, I

Moby (01:01:03):

Was like this, this somehow in its own way makes sense to me. And I remember having a meeting with Daniel and Eric who's here, and some people from the, the US label who agreed to release it. And Richard Sanders was working at V two, this record label. And he's such a delightful man. He said, you know what? He said, I really like this record. He said, I could see a world where it sells 50,000 copies. <laugh>. I laughed at him, <laugh>, literally. I was like, you're no way. This is record's not gonna sell 50,000 copies.

Lindsay (01:01:36):

I mean, I feel like what a wonderful place to be in with no expectation and just loving the thing you made. And on that note, I wonder if we should have our friend come out. Yeah.

Moby (01:01:45):

Yes. Okay. So ladies and gentlemen coming to the stage, my friend and phenomenal talent, miss Lady Blackbird,

Speaker 7 (01:02:55):

Why does my so, so bad? These,

Moby (01:07:20):

I mean, well, should we just go home? Yeah. <laugh> like,

Lindsay (01:07:26):

I don't really know.

Moby (01:07:27):

So back to me being a sad alcoholic <laugh>,

Lindsay (01:07:32):

I mean that I'm, I'm literally emotionally overwhelmed. Um, okay, so let's get back to the story. So you've made this album, it's done. And what, what, okay, this is just 'cause I'm, I don't know how this works. When an album is done, what do you do, <laugh>?

Moby (01:07:54):

Well, this is back in the ye olden days. Yeah. Yeah. So the album's finished. I brought it to the mastering engineer where they turned it into, at the time, CDs and mini discs. And the mastering engineer said, oh, I like this record. And I was like, really? No one like this? No one's gonna like this record. And then a couple other people said, oh, I like this record. And then I did some interviews and a few more people said, oh, I really like your record. And I was like, are we talking about the same record? Like, how did, so I was just amazed anyone had listened to it. And so then the record went out, was largely ignored. I will say to their credit, spin Magazine gave it a nice review, you know, um, no one else did when it came out. What's funny is, like, for example, even Rolling Stone, like when it was the 10 year anniversary of play, they did a big thing about play. They didn't even review it when it came out. So, sorry. Rolling Stone. But

Lindsay (01:08:52):

You know, not everyone gets it right. Yeah. Every single time. Um, so you have decided how this album is gonna go out. You've made your mini discs. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and your regular discs. Yeah. And did you, so, so there must have been a time right before this album was about to drop. Like, I, I've always wondered this about musicians uhoh. So, you know, like, like the day before your thing's gonna come out, you know, is it like a day before like a presenta like a school presentation or a PowerPoint where you're like, oh God, I hope this goes right.

Moby (01:09:24):

But in this case, or is it, I I can't overstate this enough. The expectations were non-existent. So it was sort of like getting ready for a school presentation for an audience of no one. You know? So there wasn't like, Hey, what a big deal this is the records coming out. It was like, uh, maybe if I'm lucky, someone will come to the shows and maybe someone will listen to it. <laugh>,

Lindsay (01:09:49):

For some reason, I'm imagining you there in like pre-made merch just like fingers crossed at midnight. Like, well, I hope it goes well. But you didn't, you weren't

Moby (01:09:57):

No, I didn't do anything. And then we played the first show at a basement of a record store in Union Square. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it was free and 25 people showed up.

Lindsay (01:10:08):

Did you? Were

Moby (01:10:09):

You like, and the manager told us to turn it down. I'm not kidding. <laugh>. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:10:14):

That's amazing. Yeah.

Moby (01:10:16):

And also, I will say every single record label in the United States passed on it Really? We, we played it. My manager, Barry Taylor, Eric, they played it for I'm, I mean, it's just a standard thing of like, and the record labels are like, no, we don't hear it. We don't hear it. We don't hear it. And so from

Lindsay (01:10:33):

The demos?

Moby (01:10:34):

No, from the album. Oh, the, because Mute records were releasing it everywhere except for here. So we went to every single record label in the United States. Every single one of them said no. In fact, this one guy Neil at London record, sorry, Neil came to my studio, sat there unpleasant, didn't really say much. I played him a few songs. He said, no, I don't hear it. He just got up and left <laugh>. Not even like a thank you for inviting me in, not thank you for the coffee, not anything just like, no. And I was like, wow. No wonder you guys don't have jobs anymore. Aw, sorry, that was petty. I take it back. But moie but nonetheless, when you've been systematically hated by a lot of people, it's hard to like them too much

Lindsay (01:11:23):

<laugh>. Um, but then somebody eventually it was like,

Moby (01:11:28):

So, you know, here's a funny story. I think it's funny. It's maybe not that funny. There was a DJ in Los Angeles named Nick Harcort. Used to be. Yeah. So Nick Harcort, um, he was on, uh, KCRW, he's on KCSN now, I, I believe. And he was DJing in Woodstock at the time. And he had bought the single of the song Honey, which came out like nine months before the record. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And he really liked it and he played it on the radio. And this woman who worked at a small label called V two heard it and said, oh, I like that. And so she con, after being rejected by every record label, she contacted my manager and said, Hey, we like this, we'd like to release it. And so we're like, sure. No one else wants to release it, so might as well. So thanks to Nick Harcourt playing the song on Woodstock radio in 1998, I guess.

Lindsay (01:12:25):

Wow. That's,

Moby (01:12:26):

Thank you, Nick.

Lindsay (01:12:27):

That's amazing. It kind of makes me wanna hear that song

Speaker 6 (01:12:45):

Back sometimes. Gotta hump in my jack. Sometimes Gotta hump in my back. Sometimes

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):

I

Speaker 6 (01:13:00):

I jack sometimes gotta hump in my back. Come. All right. If you don't have a phone in your hands, I'm gonna need you to put your hands together if you have phone in your hands. I understand. Alright. Did everybody else come on? Put it together. Gotta hump in my back.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):

M

Speaker 6 (01:14:44):

Back. Gotta hump.

Moby (01:15:46):

So simply. Thank you, Lindsay. Thank you Bengal. Thank you everybody. And, um, maybe we'll see some of you again tomorrow night. 'cause we're coming back to tell part two, doing the story.

Speaker 6 (01:15:58):

Uh,

Lindsay (01:15:59):

So maybe we should,

Moby (01:16:00):

We didn't work on the, we didn't work on the ending, didn't we?

Lindsay (01:16:03):

Well, no, I have an idea. You do? Yeah. What if we just sing everyone a goodbye song?

Moby (01:16:08):

Like what?

Lindsay (01:16:09):

Well, the one that you're gonna do.

Moby (01:16:10):

Are we gonna do that one? Um, what are we gonna really, we're gonna end with that.

Lindsay (01:16:15):

Yeah, I

Moby (01:16:15):

Think that's all. Oh, I thought we, I thought we ended.

Lindsay (01:16:18):

No, there's one more song.

Moby (01:16:20):

Okay. I just didn't do, do you want to hear another song? Yes. Okay.