Andrea: Hello, and welcome to Those Who Can't Do. I am your host, Andrea Forkham, and I, I'm always, I know I say it every time that I'm excited about the guest and I, I am every time excited about the guest, but this one has a lot of personal significance to me and I cannot wait for you to hear all of the incredible stories about my early teaching career and his early teaching career.

It's just. the best. But before we get to that, I have to tell you about the deep and abiding shame that I experienced this past week. I, as part of my job at Indiana State, I have to do things that I don't want to do that include, um, presenting conferences. It's, it's my least favorite form of like public speaking, especially because this particular conference, I had asked if I could do a session.

Sessions are fine. I don't. Love it, but I don't mind it, right? Like, everyone's very buttoned up. We're all being adults adulting and doing adult things. Well, that made it sound sexual and it's definitely not. I mean, I guess maybe for some people it could be that, but for me it was decidedly not. And so everyone's acting very mature and grown up.

And so I submit my little thing saying like, hello, I would very much like to talk about my dissertation. And they came back and they said, that's adorable. You can make a poster and you can sit by the snacks and you can talk about your dissertation by the snacks. And I was just violently humbled by that.

And I was like, fine, because I can still put it in my little faculty things I did. Check it off the list, right? Done. Don't have to stress about doing another one for a bit. Um, however, because of that lack of stress that I had about it, I did. what many ADHD people do and I really left it to the last minute to make this poster because in my mind, I'm talking about my dissertation, right?

Like I could show up with a blank sheet of paper and I would still know what to say. So I didn't exactly prioritize making the poster in the way that I should have. And then it was the week that I had to present and I didn't have the poster yet. And I was like, that's, you know, I sure hope the printer will be able to get it to me.

And so I emailed them. I'm like, how much time do you need? They're like, you need to get us to us today. Should have gotten to us last week, but today. And, um, so I, I did, but that meant I just copy and pasted a bunch of stuff onto the poster and then very quickly typed out like a couple of little blurbs.

And, um, as I was presenting this magical poster for the world, And all five people that talked to me at the conference, um, to see, I then realized there were several spelling errors in it. And I, I want to remind you, these are doctorate level people who are, I am talking to. So, one of them, in particular, the first one who came up, immediately pointed out the spelling errors.

Which, first of all, sir, why? Who, like, what, what do you, his, his PhD, not in English, in case you were wondering, I don't know what it was in, I think it was like education something something, because it was an education conference, but like, I don't appreciate the shade, and I just kind of laughed, I was like, yeah, you only see it once you print it, and he's like, mm, mm hmm, mm hmm, rude.

I don't appreciate that, but I was deeply shamed by him. And then another person who pointed out another spelling error. So proofreading is important, is what I'm telling you. And, uh, staying humble is also very important. The fall to humility is a lot shorter if you just stay humble the whole time. Um, and, uh, Somebody who met me, uh, in my very humble origins as a teacher was Mr.

Eugene Williams. He was a, an English teacher. Let's see if I can say that right, since I also was an English teacher. He was an English teacher, and then he was also an administrator, and he was the assistant principal who had some tough conversations with me early on in my teaching career. And we talk a lot about.

Those experiences and some of the other wild things that we experienced while we were working at the same school and I cannot wait for you guys to hear it. So without further ado, let's get to it.

Welcome to Those Who Can't Do. I am so delighted today because I have Mr. Eugene Williams here with me who has an incredible career that he has accomplished and was also blessed to be my very first assistant principal, the one who came and did observations and a few times wrote me up and a couple of things like that.

So

Eugene: I don't recall that.

Andrea: Oh, you don't? Oh, we're going to get in. We're going to get in. I'm sure there's at least one that you recall because I am so deeply traumatized. I will be shocked if you don't. Yeah,

Eugene: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. My bad. Yeah.

Andrea: Yeah. Um, Mr. Williams, can you talk a little bit about what your career has been to this point, where you are now and, and all of that?

Eugene: Well, uh, Andrea.

Andrea: Yeah. I

Eugene: used to call you Ms. Forkham.

Andrea: I know, it's real weird. I don't know if I'm going to be able to call you anything other than Mr. Williams. Like, it's like

Eugene: You can call me Eugene, that's all right now. It's been enough years, the past passed.

Andrea: I'll try. I'll give it a shot.

Eugene: No, um, well, long story short, I was in education for 27 years.

I was in the classroom for 10 years as a high school English teacher. And I was in public school administration for 17 years. Before I got into education, I wrote a couple of books. We've got some national notoriety, a group book called Grounded in the Word where we cross referenced the 500 most commonly found SAT words with the words found in the King James Version of the Bible.

A book I wrote for parents called It's a Reading Thing to Help Your Child Understand. Uh, a book I read, I wrote about myself and my experiences called Reflections of a Confused Middle Black, Middle Class Black Youth, and a, uh, a novella that I wrote about loosely based on my experiences as a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity at Emory University called I Am the Darker Brother.

And, uh, it's just been a, uh, a great life and a, and a great career, but at a certain point you realize that the, uh, you're getting older but the kids are staying the same age and it's time for you to exit stage left and do some other things. And so that's where we are, broad strokes right now. I'm sure we'll get into more details as we go on, but that's where I am, broad strokes right now.

Andrea: Yeah, so I, I know that you saw on Instagram that I had asked people, um, what I should ask you about. And the number one thing, and too many people asked this, is, um, did you think I was gonna make it? Was like a real common question.

Eugene: You know, I thought you were going to make it, uh, because the one thing about teachers that make it are teachers who don't take themselves too seriously.

And you never did that.

Andrea: That's for sure. And so,

Eugene: and, and I see that that tradition has continued.

Andrea: Mm hmm.

Yeah.

Eugene: So, um, so I had no doubt that you were going to, uh, be a very successful teacher. Plus the fact you taught my daughter, and my daughter loved your class. So I didn't want to be the evil daddy and, you know, do something to mess that up.

Andrea: And I mean, you,

Eugene: you, you were wanting her better grades. I wasn't going to screw that up either.

Andrea: And I absolutely adore, uh, your daughter Paige. She is, and now she is a teacher as well, which is just so exciting that she's doing that and doing some really beautiful art and, and all of that. We can put a link in the show notes to her stuff.

So you guys can take a look at some of her pottery and her painting.

Eugene: Love that.

Andrea: Yeah, she's phenomenal. Uh, yeah, she was in my journalism class, guys. So if you remember from some of my previous stories, when I started that year, I, I don't, because I got hired as an English teacher, like that was the, the job.

And then I don't remember at what point journalism got brought to the table because that school at that time, like there were a lot of moving pieces.

Eugene: Yeah, I think, I think journalism was kind of thrust upon you.

Andrea: Yeah. I

Eugene: think, um, I think, uh, I won't, I won't mention any names, but I think I was sitting in the principal's office and we were all trying to figure it out, so.

Andrea: Who will say yes? We got all these

Eugene: classes covered. Where we putting Forkham? Uh, hmm.

Andrea: Mm hmm. Yeah. Journalism. Yeah. So. Which I actually really enjoyed when I did journalism. That first year was a little rough. Uh. Yeah. In particular, the, uh, the event that I was referencing at the beginning of the episode where I made a choice that wasn't the greatest of choices, which, um, hey, do, do you remember specifically what happened?

Eugene: I think I remember. I'm gonna need you to kind of fill in some blanks for me.

Andrea: Okay. I

Eugene: just remember I'm sitting in my office. I had an upstairs office. So students come in alarmed. And, Mr. Williams, you'll never guess what happened to Ms. Forkless last, you know, it was a building with 1, 600 kids, so, I was, I was never shocked or surprised by anything they told me.

Now, I don't remember exact, I don't remember exactly what happened, but I do remember And I pulled you into my office and we had a conversation. I do remember that. Yes,

Andrea: we did. Fill

Eugene: me in. I'm getting older. See if I can remember this.

Andrea: So I was teaching a unit specifically on documentaries so that I could show documentaries because I was drowning, right?

I had no idea what I was doing. And I, Along those same lines, didn't have copies for my next English class, and we were not a one to one school at that point, so you couldn't just be like, oh, it's on Google Classroom, right? Like, that was not, this was like 2013. So I was like, okay, I, I know that I won't have enough time in passing, period.

The students are sitting there watching. that it was the McDonald's, uh, documentary, Fed Up or something.

Eugene: Oh yeah, right. Eat too much food and get, oh yeah, I know that the

Andrea: McDonald's. The goofy one, yeah. Yes. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to run down really, really quickly and I'm just going to get copies and I'll come right back.

Cause this, this class was super chill. I don't remember if Paige was in that one. I think she was in one of the later classes.

Eugene: Paige wasn't in that class.

Andrea: Okay. So I go, I run down there. And I mean, I always felt very supported by yourself and the rest of the administrators. I didn't feel like it was a gotcha situation.

There was a lot of support. And so I was, I, I, I, I, and I mean it like I really was. And so I just run down real quick and I'm thinking like, okay, I know I probably shouldn't leave these kids unattended, but. I got to get these copies, right? Rookie mistake. Rookie mistake. So I come back and I also had, you know, I had kind of connected with some of the other teachers who had been teaching forever, who also had peers in the same hallway where they could open the door and they could say, Hey, I got to run somewhere real quick.

Keep an eye on my class. I didn't really have that in that little corner classroom that I had. So I come, I come back and I opened the door and the kids are sitting up like very straight for watching a movie. I'm not seeing a single phone. And I'm like, that's, that's weird. Like normally they're like screwing around, especially knowing that I had walked down the hall.

And so I look, Oh God. And I look over and I see the superintendent who I had only seen at like the, like the beginning convocation type thing from afar. And she's standing there with her clipboard. And I'm like, Oh, good morning. She said good morning, and she didn't say anything else at the time, and she walked out, and I sat at my desk, and I just like collapsed, and I was like, oh, I'm getting fired, because I was on a provisional license, you guys.

That means they could let me walk at any point. Like, I, there was, There was no tenure. It was like, I was there on a hope and a prayer, so I didn't have to work for free doing student teaching. And so I was like, that's it. I'm getting fired. I'm gonna get fired. And I, I don't think I told you. I don't. No, did I?

I think I emailed you. I think I emailed you.

Eugene: I think you either emailed me or called me in the hallway or said something to me about it. Yeah. I don't, I don't, you know, that's, that's, to me, that would, that wouldn't have been a fireable defense, especially for a first year teacher. So I wasn't worried about that.

Oh,

Andrea: yeah. But I mean, I, I told you and you were like, yeah, she stopped, she stopped by and she mentioned that. And I was like, I just remember shaking with adrenaline and you were just shaking your head at me like, you can't do that. And I was like, I know!

Eugene: Well, it was just, you know, listen, I mean. It was your first year, right?

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: And, and what I try to do, especially with first year teachers, I know it's hard enough as it is, getting used to a new school, getting used to the way people, different people do things. And, and, and, you know, I like to paint this picture that, you know, all teacher families are very tight knit, but, you know, some of these, some of our colleagues can be real snippy from time to time, especially the older, the younger.

Speaker 4: And,

Eugene: and I, you know, I, I just, I always wanted to make you guys feel like you were a part of the team early on. And so, yeah, because here's the thing, when you did that, the superintendent didn't talk to you. No! No. As far as you were concerned, the superintendent was like, oh, okay, just, you know, la di da.

Andrea: I was like, oh, she must not have been mad.

Eugene: And, and superintendents can be tricky like that. They'll never say it to the offending party. Well, then they'll find the nearest administrator. Uh, hey, Williams, you know, your, your girl over there in journalism was, uh, not

Andrea: there

Eugene: for a good, however many minutes it was. So then, so then you, you go into, you know, cover for my, cover for my teacher mode.

Well, I'm sure there's a good reason. She probably was not feeling well, had to go to, what do you to happen? Emergency. That is not a normal practice. That is not a normal practice for her. And so, um, I'll let you know. We'll definitely, uh, you know, let her know that that's what you observed, but, uh, trust me, she's an excellent person and an excellent teacher and, you know, I have, I have no worries about that.

Yeah. So, at that point, then the superintendent's looking at me side eyed, but

Speaker 4: whatever. Right.

Eugene: Um, you know, these, I have to deal with the inner workings of the school on a daily basis, so I have to do what I need to do to make sure the kids and the teachers are comfortable as possible, so. Yeah. Yeah, that was, you know, my first thing was, you One of the things that they don't tell you, they don't tell teachers in administrative school is we love teachers who keep things off of our desk.

Andrea: Yeah, right.

Eugene: Who don't, you know, and so, you know, just because, just like you don't want to be visited by the superintendent, neither do we.

Andrea: Right, right. For the

Eugene: most part, unless it's something good.

Andrea: And so

Eugene: I just said, oh, well, okay.

Andrea: Yeah. And you live

Eugene: and you learn.

Andrea: And I got a letter in my file and I will, you

Eugene: did.

Andrea: I will never forget you sitting there with me. 'cause I didn't, I did not like being in trouble. I still don't like being in trouble. I like to be the person who did the right thing and to get like a sticker for it. Like I. was like, I remember crying and I remember you sitting there and just being like, Do you remember what you told me?

Eugene: I don't remember what I told you. What did I tell you, Andrea? What did I tell you? You

Andrea: said, Andrea, I got letters in my file, too.

Eugene: Oh, yeah. Yeah, look, that's true. I did say that. Listen, if I told you some of the stuff that happened to me my first year teaching, please. I mean, please do. you a story?

Andrea: Yes, please do.

Eugene: Okay. I'm not teaching anymore, so no one can get me on this.

Andrea: That's right.

Eugene: My first year, I was at a public school. I won't mention the school. I won't mention the state. But it was my first actual year as a classroom teacher. And I was trying to be, you know, the young, cool, hip teacher, whatever that meant for 1996 at that time.

And a student came to my class at the end of the day. He was clearly under the influence of something.

Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

Eugene: Uh, didn't know what, but something. I don't know if he was drunk. I don't know if he was high. I don't know if he was drunk and high. I don't know what it was. Mm hmm. We came into the room, Hey, Mrs.

Payne, what's happening, baby, uh, you know, and I'm just trying to, I said, I said, look, man, look, it's Friday. It's last period. What I need you to do, get you behind in the seat, put your head down on the desk, and say absolutely nothing. Shut up. Say nothing.

Andrea: Yeah. And

Eugene: that was back, that was back when you could talk to kids like that.

Andrea: Right. And nobody,

Eugene: and nobody got upset or offended because they knew that you're, where your heart was and you were trying to look out for them.

Andrea: Right.

Eugene: That too has changed.

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: Long story short. So, made the rookie mistake. I turned my back and I was writing on the board. I was teaching a novel by Richard Wright and I heard this blood curdling scream, like right out of Jamie Lee Curtis in Halloween.

It was crazy. Turn around, the student has placed his,

Speaker 4: um,

Eugene: his Magic Johnson

on the female student's desk.

Andrea: That's a crime.

Eugene: Yes, it

Andrea: was at that

Eugene: point.

Andrea: Oh.

Eugene: That I called security. And told that boy, I don't know where you're going, but you can heck up out of here.

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: What is wrong with you? You got to go. Now at that point, SROs were different than when we worked at school together.

Speaker 4: Little less gentle. This is my work for black

Eugene: men. No gentility. SRO all the SROs were retired police officers and they wore suits, blue suits and ties into the building. And they had the, They had all the accoutrements right there, but you know, if they had to get down, they could get down with you. And they yanked him up, took him out of class.

I never saw him again. I saw him a year later. I was jogging on the road. And he said, Hey, Mr. Weasel's

Andrea: hat, do

Eugene: you remember me?

Andrea: I said, yeah,

Eugene: man.

Andrea: Unfortunately. How could I

Eugene: forget you? I remember you. How you doing? He said, well, you know, I just got out.

Outside, out, what, what, what, out where? I was in jail, man! And I won't even tell you what he was in jail for. It was, it was bad.

Andrea: It, but it wasn't because of what happened in class. It was a separate incident. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, I was gonna say.

Eugene: But, but when I found out what it was for, I said I might have been taking my life in my own hands telling him to get up out of the classroom.

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: But you know, that was a different time. Um, and that was just part of the, of the game. You know, one of the things that's so interesting to me about today's the state of education today, and I have to be very careful how I say this because I know who your audience is, um, and I say this to our younger teachers, and I mean no disrespect, none whatsoever.

I know things are tough now, and we often hear about how difficult and tough things are, um, but don't blame COVID for this. Some of the same stuff that's happening today was happening 20 years ago in other parts of the country, just that we wasn't, you know, we didn't have social media, we didn't have cameras, we didn't have All these things that talk about it, but some of the same things that teachers are talking about now we were talking about in, uh, faculty, faculty rooms in the 90s and early 2000s.

Andrea: Yeah. So,

Eugene: you know, I, I, I know it, I know it, it, it seems rougher and it feels like there's more, there's, the frequency is greater for these types of, you know, adverse situations. But, um, you know, I've been swung on by a student. Uh, I had a middle school student once when I was a, uh, a middle school assistant principal tell me, How exactly can I kick you in your a You know, and he meant it.

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: And a parent was telling me that I was just a good student. Trying to keep, I'm trying to keep this, uh, PG.

Andrea: I mean, we actually, we bleep it. So if it's anything that's beyond PG 13, then it gets bleeped. So, you know. Well,

Eugene: I'll, I'll, I'll still keep it PG.

Andrea: Okay. She

Eugene: told me to, to, to lick her posterior. And posterior wasn't the word she used.

Andrea: Nice.

Eugene: Nice. So now, if you think things are rough now, and they are, I get it, this ain't new America. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, maybe COVID, uh, enhanced it or, or, or made it more viable or maybe easier to see. Once again, we live in a surveillance society, so everything we do on a camera or on a, you know, a YouTube clip or a TikTok clip or whatever.

So, we think things are happening that have never happened before in the, in the annals of American education, but, uh, there's really nothing new under the sun. Yeah. Yeah. So one of I still loved it though. I loved my 27 years. I loved it every, every, every minute of it.

Andrea: Yeah. So you were in the classroom for 10 years and then you transitioned into being an administrator.

So what kind of made that choice for you? Why did you decide to go into administration?

Eugene: I'm a practical guy. Um, you know, gotta get that back. I knew I wa I knew I wanted a family. Uh, yeah. You know, and, uh, yeah,

Speaker 4: and

Eugene: my, and my wife had already, she made the transition to administration, like of a year before I did.

And so I had some things I wanted to achieve. You know, personally, and I wanted to do something that, something that I enjoyed doing, which put me in the best financial position to get to where I needed to be. And so at that point, it was to go to, uh, administration.

Speaker 4: Yeah. And I

Eugene: really felt like, with my experience, having been a classroom teacher and having been a football coach and having been, you know, a summer school principal and having had a lot of leadership positions, You know, having been a department chair for a while, um, I feel like I was, at that point, my crowd, I was ready to do that.

Plus, I come from a family of educators, so, uh, my, my parents, uh, uh, my, both my late parents at one time in their careers were both administrators, so I kinda, I knew what it took.

Andrea: Yeah. And I, I will say, one of the memories I have at, um, that school was that you were a very engaged administrator. You were not the administrator that like sat in the office and the kids didn't know you.

Like the kids would be walking down the hallway and dap you up on their way to their class, even though they knew you weren't going to handle their nonce. Like you weren't going to like not give consequences for behavior. You were very direct with these students and so real. I, my husband and I actually, we have, we quote you regularly.

I will. I will. We still quote you amazing guy. And I quote you. All the time, we all do, because I will never forget, I was, I think it was like class changes or whatever, and you were talking to some young men, and you were, you looked at them and you said, you guys think these shoes, that outfit, that's what's sexy.

You know what's sexy? Health insurance. Yes! A 401k! Yes! I try to tell these young bucks what's going

Eugene: on. Looks fade. Oh my gosh,

Andrea: it's so funny. It's so true. And my husband and I quote that to each other all the time of just like, when you gave that wisdom to those young men, I was like, Yes, yes, that's exactly it.

And

Eugene: if you want to get a lady turned on, give her a 10 copay at the dentist.

Andrea: Oh my gosh. That's it. Exactly.

Eugene: What? Are you kidding me right now? Are you kidding me? These kids don't even know where it's at, but that's part of, you know, getting older and growing and wanting to show them because I would see these young boys, especially, and they, and the way you remember.

The way they used to talk to the young ladies and uh, and some of the things they would say and touching them and this, I was like, what are we doing? What kind of young men are we raising right now?

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: And so I'm just, I was, I was just glad to be there, to be a part of that, to try to influence some, some lives.

And I wanted, I wanted the young ladies to see that there were men in their lives, other than their fathers, who kind of like knew What was happening and, and you had a, you know, you had a supporter in your school building when, when the boys acted stupid.

Andrea: Yeah, and I, you also, correct me if I'm wrong, you had a, a club or it was, I think it was a club for young men that, I remember them wearing suits.

Can you describe what that club was and what? You offered for them?

Eugene: Yeah, that's great. And you're gonna love these, these ending stories too, because some of these kids you probably know. Um, we had a group called the Academic Scholars Institute that we started in, in the school system where Andrew and I were working together.

And, um, it started because my wife was, uh, a principal the same time that I was an assistant principal in that same county. And we had the big meeting of all the administrators, And the superintendent at that time, uh, my wife, well, my wife said, brought it up. She said, we keep talking about the achievement gap, especially with black male students.

Well, what are we doing to narrow it? What are we doing? And so it's one of those things where I told my wife, I said, be careful what you ask for because then you'll be made to run the, the, uh, the committee to make it happen.

Speaker: Yeah. It's like,

Eugene: that's an old trick.

Speaker: Yeah.

Eugene: But anyway, um, we talked about that and he, he, he did put us in, in, on that committee.

And so I was able to work with, uh, another African American elementary school principal and an African American male teacher at the, um, alternative school. And we put together this program along with central office where we identified about 50, uh, black male students who were academically strong, but for whatever reason, we're not enrolling in AP honors, dual enrollment, advanced courses.

Um, and we wanted to put them in a position to, because they all said they wanted to go to college. So we wanted to put them in a position to have the credentials that they would need at the high school level to move into the college realm. Um, and so we got them together and we, uh, had a, had a meet at University of Virginia and we had speakers come and talk to them and we showed them around the lunch hall and they got to learn about college life and we talked about, um, the nine constructs of a scholar.

Um, we borrowed that. Uh, information from Dr. Gilman Whiting and Dr. Donna Ford out of Vanderbilt University because they had run similar camps, uh, down south and other, other, uh, school systems. They even came and consulted with us, as a matter of fact. Um, and so it happened that first year and it kept going and going and going and we didn't really have any money to fund it.

And so we were told, well, you all have to figure out how to, how to fund this program because We'll support it, but you got to fund it.

Andrea: We'll support it, but like, not in a But you got

Eugene: to

Andrea: fund it. Right, which is like, how are you supporting Where's that support?

Eugene: So, we gathered all of the local Black pastors, got them in a room, told them what we wanted to do.

They were able to get their parishioners to send money by the thousands, and we pulled it off. It happened year after year after year after year, and one of the, you'll, recently, uh, the first, our, well, I'm gonna say the county, uh, Don't, don't say the county. No. No. The county where we worked together had their first, uh, uh, black male valedictorian, and it came from that program.

He ended up going to Harvard on a wrestling scholarship.

Andrea: Oh my gosh, that is incredible. And then

Eugene: we had another young man, uh, who recently was part of that program and recently received a scholarship because he's studying bio something at Virginia Tech. And almost all those kids went to four year institutions, whether it was for athletics or academics.

And we were just very, very excited about that. And we had, we saw an uptick in our, um, AP enrollment for Black students, our dual enrollment, enrollment, and it was just a good, a good feeling to be a part of that. And then, I think you probably know, the trip we used to take every year, uh, we take, we take all the Black juniors and seniors to the, this big black college fair in Northern Virginia.

Um, I can't think of the name of it right now, but it was, it's, it's nationwide. It's huge. It was sponsored by Facebook the last year we went there. And, um, we were able to get almost all of our kids some sort of scholarship. They would have to bring a written sample, bring their SAT scores, um, fill out some applications, and they would, they would interview with the different colleges, like a hundred different HBCUs, and they would interview with the different colleges right then there on school grounds, and all of them walked away with some sort of scholarship.

So, you know, that was, that was what I went into education for the teaching part was, you know, to train me to have a bigger influence because I kind of knew what I wanted to do. I was a student that went to private schools as a little kid, so, you know, I looked at all the things they were doing in private schools and I said, these kids aren't any smarter than the kids in my neighborhood.

Andrea: Yeah. They just

Eugene: have more access, more money, and so if I bring those skills to folks that look like me. Let's see what we can do.

Andrea: Yeah. That's where it

Eugene: started.

Andrea: I love that. Um, we are going to take a quick break and when we get back, uh, we're going to talk a little bit about some of the crazy things that happened socially during the time that Mr.

Williams and I were teaching at the same or at the same school. So we will be right back.

And welcome back to Those Who Can't Do. So, Mr. Williams and I taught at a time. I mean, I feel like We could pick any period of history, recent or otherwise, and it could be described as tumultuous. Um, but I think that it's a, it's a good bridge. You talking about your impact on black students at the school and all of that, can you describe the culture that we were in at that school?

Um, because I like, just, just to give a little context to this guy, is like, I grew up in San Diego and that's where I had lived my whole life. And I, I thought. Obviously, very mistakenly. Like, racism was solved already, Mr. Williams. Like, it was, we were good. Because I was very dumb. I was very naive.

Margaritas? I don't know. There must be some good stuff, man. Send me some of that. So, like, I lived in a very sheltered environment. I had never seen anything. up front in your, like, there were microaggressions, there were other things like that, but I had never seen anyone use the N word in, like, an attack.

Like, I heard it in music sometimes, that was it. I had never heard anyone actually say it. I had never seen a confederate flag flown, and within the first week at the school, I saw it tattooed on a kid's shoulder. I just want to give people a little bit of context for the district that we were in. So if you could

Eugene: Okay.

Andrea: provide some of that. I can, I can.

Eugene: It was a, it was a rural district. I've worked in districts that were more rural. Well, this district was pretty rural. Um, we had about 1600 kids at the school. I think maybe 15%, 20 percent maybe minority, maybe, maybe, maybe a little more. This was the type of school that just a few years earlier, you know, Um, you know, a few generations earlier, it wouldn't have been uncommon for a kid to bring his, uh, hunting rifle to school with him.

Not in the building, but just sitting on top of his car, in his car, because hunting was a big thing. On his truck. It still was a big thing.

Andrea: Oh yeah.

Eugene: Yeah.

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: Um, we did have, you know, we did have students that wore Confederate shirts and Confederate flags tattooed on them. Um, but it was just amazing to me because.

It always felt to me like the African American students, and the Hispanic students, and the white students, they, they, they, it was a, still a relatively small county. So they had all gone to school together since they were in second or third grade. So it was kind of something, it wasn't unusual to have a kid with sagging jeans on, sitting next to the kid with the camouflage on, eating lunch, and enjoying each other's company.

Speaker 4: Yeah. It's

Eugene: just what they were used to. Um, but then there were certain particular issues or certain particular times when those differences did come to the fore. I remember there was a, an annual Black History Month program we used to do, and I think in one of the, Parts of the program, um, They were talking about, you know, there was the early years of Black Lives Mattering and all of that.

I had a secretary, who was all up in arms, come to me and say, These kids are walking around here wearing these Black Lives Matter t shirts, and they are causing disruption, and da da da da da da da da. You need to do something about that, Mr. Williams. This lady, I've known this lady for years, she was a sweet lady.

I know she had no, uh, ill will or malice in her heart about the situation. But I had to explain to her, I said, well, let me put it this way. If I go after the kids with the Black Lives Matter t shirts on, I'm going to go after kids with the confederate flag t shirts on. Which battle do you want me to fight?

Andrea: Right.

Eugene: Because we're not going to do one without the other. So if, if, if one's accepted, And just understood that it's a part of the quote unquote culture or how they're going to accept the other one too.

Andrea: And I think that there's just a lack of empathy for the fear that these kids very very much had, you know They they were wearing those shirts because they very truly were afraid of being hurt, you know, and I You know I also remember one of the, the conversations that we had.

I really screwed up. I think this was either in the first year or the second year and there had been a, a police shooting of a young black man. I'm, I'm, I can't remember this. That's

Eugene: the one I was thinking about that you were, that you were talking about.

Andrea: Yeah, and I'm also traumatized from that one deeply as well.

Um, at that one Stop being traumatized, please! It's, here's the thing is that like, I, with the situation that we're talking about, guys, like, there had been a shooting. And as a teacher, like, the kids bring it in, right? Like, you can try and ignore these things, you can act like, you know, these things aren't happening, but the kids bring it in, they talk about it.

And with the best of intentions, I was thinking, you know, like, let's let these kids talk out some of their feelings. Let's let these guys, like, process and the safety of the classroom. What I didn't realize was, like, the, The fact that I had students in that class whose parents were police officers and I had students in that class whose parents were incarcerated and they felt like that was very unjust.

And so what I had intended on being like a big kumbaya moment, let's all talk about frustrations and I'm gonna fix racism right here guys, you're welcome. Um, didn't go over well and I ended up having several of my students get up and leave my class in tears. That's right. and go straight up to Mr.

Williams classroom. Um, and I was so jarred because that was never my intent. And it's one of those like intent versus, um, impact. Right. And I apologize to those students. And I remember you sitting with me after the fact and just being like, it's, it's too fresh. Like you can't have these conversations right now, especially not like in that group setting where these kids are, it's, it's so fresh and it's so real for them right now.

And I, I guess what I would love to hear from you is for teachers that were in a situation like me where the, and I mean, I would love to be like, it's not going to happen anymore, but we all know another week, another news article comes out. Um, how do you recommend that educators handle these incredibly difficult issues in their classroom when you know you've got these kids that are feeling some type of way and they're trying to give them some kind of sense of peace and calm and safety in the classroom?

Eugene: I can tell you this. While it didn't work out the way you wanted it to, I appreciated the fact that it was an effort that you made because I don't think that same effort was being made in other classes. I think it kind of went left, but the intentions were good. What I would say to any school system, one of the things that made those tensions palatable and made us able to kind of get to it as a school unit, was the I would say the diversity in administration because African American kids, Hispanic kids, kids of color, knew that there was either a teacher or a assistant principal where they could have a safe space to talk about the things that were affecting them because they knew odds are that in some way or another, we'd experienced some of the same stuff at the same time, or the same, you know, in the same way.

But there was somebody they could identify with.

Speaker 4: Yeah,

Eugene: and I think it's very important to have a di, a diverse staff, especially in these times. So that the staff can come together and kind of inform each other. And I don't, I don't know if another administrator would have been able to be comfortable enough with you to have a conversation with you to say, too fresh, fall back, let's not, I know what you were trying to do, but can you see how, you know, first of all, we got to remember as teachers, especially as high school teachers, we think just because the kids are dating and are driving and, and have jobs, if they're mature, they're not.

Yeah. They're still learning, they're still developing, there's a whole bunch of other issues they don't even know how to deal with or comprehend yet, and they still are trying to struggle with that themselves and figure that out. And so I can only imagine, yeah, if, if, if everybody's going around saying how bad the police are, and my dad is a cop, I, I feel some sort of way about that.

And if everybody is going around talking about how this, you know, this kid may or may not have deserved the mistreatment that he received. And I got a cousin or a brother or a father who's in jail, that's going to be problematic for me. And so I think we just have to understand where each group is coming from and be willing to have those difficult and hard conversations.

I didn't mind having them because I knew that, I always tried to have the conversations, I know it's corny, but try with a tinge of love. Because I knew that we were all working towards trying to educate these kids. We had different philosophies, different belief systems, but none of us would intentionally go out of our way to hurt a child.

And if I could trust that, I could have a conversation with any teacher or any colleague about what we could do to help our young people succeed. And the thing was, I don't want to paint a picture that Mr. Williams was the You know, the savior of all black students. Because, no, I mean, because I had, as you know, I had a lot of white students that would hide in my office and be late to class just running, just talking to me.

Yeah. You know, because like, they like just to have conversations with me. Um, and I, and I appreciated that. I like the fact that as an administrator, there were, there was some place they felt they could go to voice their problems. If they had a problem with what a teacher was saying or doing, I could then tell them and counsel them and say, well, Approach the teacher about it, but here's the way you do that.

Do it with respect. Have your facts straight. Know what you're talking about before you bring it to a teacher's attention.

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: So that then you could have a constructive conversation about it. And if you've done it that way, I mean, the teacher has still decided, you know, Who's this little kid? Get away from my desk.

Then I gotta bring that teacher in like, whoa, whoa. Yeah. What are we here for? Right. But other than that, um, no, I mean, that's to me, I think that's the key thing. I think, I think we, we do need diversity in terms of our staff, in terms of our administrations.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Eugene: Gotta have it. Yeah. And, and, and what happens so many times is you got a whole bunch of students of color and everybody they see from grades two through 12.

It's white, usually female, you know, and we got to have some, somebody or someplace they can go to besides mommy and daddy. And that's all students, you know, just where they feel comfortable and feel like they have something in common. Part of forming relationships with students is having common ground.

It's not being their buddy, but just if somebody tells the N word joke and you know, that look that they'll know that. Now, Mr. Williams wouldn't like that, and they have comfort in that knowing there's somebody they can go to that's going to address the situation,

Speaker 4: not cause

Eugene: a problem, not cause a rift, not gonna cause any foolishness, but just gonna say, listen, that's not what we're here for.

We need to work together and, and, and be respectful of one another, so. Yeah. That's what I would suggest. Diversity.

Andrea: Yeah. And I mean, it's, it's been interesting because, you know, teaching, uh, at the district we were at, and then I've taught at two large districts in California and, um, well, one large district and then one very, very small private school.

Um. Yeah. And I did see a difference with the demographics that I, that I taught with at the various places, and I did see a difference with how the students were able to approach and, like, express common experiences and common cultural things and all of that, um, and, you know, at the last, the very large public school that I was at, um, as a white teacher, Most, a vast majority of my students were Latino, um, or Asian, and then we had a small Black population as well.

And I think one of the biggest benefits in working in a district like that is how much I learn about the cultures that I'm working with in a way that is so fun. And I think that gets really, people forget about the fun of learning about cultures that are like within us, like within the, you know, the United States and all of that.

Like, I will, I'll never forget this kid. We were, we were talking about something and I, I, I told them, you know, like, oh, this kid said this to me. They're like, oh no, like my mom would have thrown her chanclas at me if I did that. And I was like, you're what? And they're like, chancla. And I was like, what are you talking about?

And they're like, the shoe, like, and I was like, your mom throws shoes at you? And then the entire class All at the same time said, yeah, like, and I was like, wait,

Speaker: yeah,

Andrea: you're sorry, all of those little things that like That it allows them to teach me as well. And having like the, the ability to learn from your students and share in some of the, just like the little minutiae of cultures and all of that is just a really fun place to be as an educator where you allow people a safe space to share stuff like that.

And you allow people to kind of be their most authentic self in your classroom. And everybody wins in that, in that scenario. You know,

Eugene: one of the reasons I chose to, to work in predominantly white public schools, especially rural ones, is because of that. You go to the inner cities, you go to the Baltimore's, the DC's, the Atlanta's, the Chicago's of the world, you have different districts where there are predominantly, predominantly black student population and people are working with those young people to help them become better students, better human beings, what have you.

But who's, who's concentrating on the, the needs and the psyche and the motivations of minority students in predominantly white schools? Yeah. He's doing that. And I'm not saying it's not being done by people who are not of color, I'm just saying the investment is different. The viewpoint is different. You know, we, we, we, we, we see education in many, in many instances.

We see America in many instances through a different lens and that's okay. And to inform people that lens and to say, so when you deal with this student, know that you don't have to, you don't have to necessarily dumb down anything or make anything easier. Or there might be a way to explain a concept to a child that might be more palatable or easy for them to identify with, which would make them a better student in the long run for you.

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: And so, you know, when I first got to the system where we worked together, um, one of the things I always did when I was in the classroom, because I was in the classroom there and then I became an administrator there, is I would do these interest inventories. And I would find out, you know, what kind of music do you like, how many brothers and sisters do you have, do you live in a house, do you live in a trailer, just different things.

And I realized some things about the culture. So I started, I started listening to the music and the artists that they liked. Well, if you're in, uh, AP English 12 class and all of a sudden you bring up a, um, a Randy Travis reference or a Toby Keith reference. While discussing literature, wow, who is this, who is this dude that knows all this stuff that he shouldn't know?

Right. I want to learn from him. I like this guy. So. Yeah.

Andrea: Yeah.

Eugene: We all need to do it.

Andrea: We do. For sure. And I, there, there's so much truth to that. And you know, it's, it's not just obviously about, about the race of the students. I would always have that piece as well, where, you know, I listened to like what their interests were and if a person liked skateboarding, I would try and like figure some way right to bring it in.

I had one kid I remember at that school who, he was a bull rider. Like, he did competitive bull riding, and oh, I bet you do, because that was another one of those moments with Mr. Williams where I got a piece of advice that I've taken with me and now give it to the world online. I must

Eugene: be getting old, I don't remember myself, I don't remember me being this wise, but let's go ahead.

Andrea: Yeah, it was incredibly formative for me working with you. It really was because you had that way of like understanding, but at the same time, just giving these, these truth bombs, . And one of, I was so mad at this kid because he had, uh, written an essay well written with big air quotes because he had copy and pasted from Wikipedia.

And the links were in there, like the hyperlink, it was printed with the hyperlink blue on there. And he was sitting there. staring at me and saying, I I didn't copy and paste it from the internet. And I'm like, you did. And I wanted so badly for him to admit it. I wanted him to sit there and be ashamed of himself.

I wanted him to acknowledge that he had cheated. And he, the kid left, right? And I was like, he needs to rewrite it, or he's getting a zero. And I think my argument was like, he's getting a zero, that's it. Like, no chance for a rewrite. And I just remember you sitting there and you saying, Is this the hill you're gonna die on?

Like, this is what you're gonna spend your energy on right now. Let the kid rewrite it. And he's, you were like, you, you want him to write it, right? And I'm like, well, yes. And you're like, then let him rewrite it. And I'm like, I need him to acknowledge that he cheated. And you're like, why? You know. We know, everybody knows, what do we win?

And I'm like, ugh! And you're like, don't die on every hill. You're going to get exhausted if you die on every hill. No, you

Speaker: will.

Andrea: Yes, and that has been something that I've taken with me throughout my career where I'm like, all right. Would Mr. Williams tell me not to die on this hill? Probably. I'm not going to die on this hill.

Eugene: But here's what I want people to understand about that. I don't want them to come away from this conversation thinking, Oh my God, just another administrative list. These kids get away with anything they want to get away with. No. You know, we hear that, we hear that blah, blah, blah all the time. No, the thing is this.

We wanted him to write an original piece that came from him. We were going to get that.

Speaker: Mm hmm.

Eugene: May I be on the day it was due. But we were going to get that and my, when it comes to discipline, my thing has always been what's our primary purpose? Is our primary purpose to punish or to change the behavior?

Yeah. And sometimes you, when you do discipline, you do have to punish. Yeah. If you, you know, if you bring a gun to school, you're getting up out of here. Right. Yeah. If you slap somebody, you're getting up out of here. Yeah. But other times a paper, you know, cause you know, you know that Wikipedia was the original chat GPT.

Andrea: Oh,

Eugene: for

Andrea: sure. For sure. Yeah,

Eugene: I mean, please,

Andrea: for sure,

Eugene: but I was just like, listen. He knows that we know that he knows that we know that we know that he knows he cheated.

Andrea: Yep. So let's

Eugene: let the fool write it again.

Andrea: And I, I think the consequence was he had to sit in in school suspension where he didn't have access to a computer and hand write it, I think.

So again, to, to your talking point. That sounds like me. Yeah. To your talking point that these, he wasn't getting away with it. I wanted him to acknowledge it though. And you're like, Andrea, he's going to write it. He's going to have a consequence. Like. Like, just, just live. Just go and live your life. And he has to go and write his paper, and we all win.

And I just, I remember being like, yeah, dang, you're right. You're right about that. Can I

Eugene: ask you a question, Andrea? Can I ask you a

Andrea: question? Yeah.

Eugene: And it's not, it's, it's for you because we're talking, but it's really for a lot of people. Uh

Andrea: huh.

Eugene: How do we expect things out of our kids that we don't expect out of our adults and our leaders?

Ooh, isn't that the question? People lie to us all the time. And if it's something that we want to hear or makes us feel good, We're cool with it, but God forbid a child cheats on a paper.

Speaker 4: Mm-Hmm. .

Eugene: Yep. That he or she could easily write again. Yep. And we wanna throw the book at this kid. And I get, and I get it.

I understand it. 'cause I was a teacher too, and early on in my career I had some of the same feelings and thoughts. But as you grow and as you teach more and around more and you see, you see the type of heinous stuff that people who are supposed to be better than that get away with and we're tripping off of a paper.

Andrea: Yeah. That's the truth of it. Exactly. Just write it again. So one of, one of the things that I do on the podcast is I get questions from listeners and then we get to take our, our shot at answering their question, giving a little bit of advice. So one of the questions was from somebody who said, I'd really like to be a teacher, but I know it requires so much mental prep and it can be very stressful.

How did you know teaching was for you?

Eugene: I didn't. No, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, wait a minute. Hold on. Let's be, let's be going to be honest. Let's be honest. I come from a family of educators. It was in my blood. I knew how to do it because I've seen folks do it. When I'm in middle school, I know about lesson plans, independent practice and guided practice and homework and how to plan a lesson.

I was helping my mom, God rest her soul, when she was a middle school teacher, I was helping her when I was in high school grade her students papers. I knew the game.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Eugene: So. It wasn't a matter of when did I know, it was kind of like, I can do it. I kind of, I kind of stumbled into it and you stumble into it.

And then a year in, you realize, Oh, I like this. This is cool. I get to work with young people. I get to talk to parents. I get to be a part of the community, see folks grow and, and move along in life. And so, you know, it's, it's, it's cool. It's just what you want to do. Now, here's what I would tell teachers, very, you know, you know, me, I, the truth bombs, if you are, if you are real sensitive.

It ain't for you. Yup. If you, you know, if you, if you are ultra rigid and got to have things your way, it's my way or the highway, don't do it. This job is not for you. Yup. It's just not, you gotta, you gotta be organized, but at the same time, flexible. You know, and if, and if this is a job that you're just trying to, trying to do something while you're waiting for your dream job to come along, don't waste our time.

Like, don't, you know, I used to, those guys say, well, I'm really gonna, I'm going to be a lawyer, or I'm going to be a this, or I'm going to be a that, but I'm just doing this teaching thing, get some seed money while I'm, and that's cool, I get it, it happens. Yeah. Let's not act like it doesn't happen. Yeah. But, please, that's, it's a recipe for disaster, folks, I'm telling you.

Andrea: Yeah. For sure. I think that, you know, I, I had a journal entry from early, early on in my college years where I said, like, I think I would enjoy teaching, but I want to make money, so I don't think I'm going to go into teaching. And then I did an office job for a bit before I went to the district that we, uh, we worked together at.

And I, I remember my very first day standing in that classroom talking to those students and I got to the end of the day and I just remember thinking, this is the most fun I've ever got, like, had at work ever. Like, this is so fun. These kids are so funny. And I worked with seniors, so they were sharp and they could, they said some of the funniest stuff.

And I was terrified and didn't know what I was doing, but I was like, I need to get good at this because this is so fun. Like, these kids deserve someone who cares, who wants to be here, and all of that, and I was like, this is so much fun. So I, I think that's one thing that people, especially because there is so much, like you said, negativity online about how hard it is and all of that, like, it's also super fun.

Like, if you're doing it right.

Eugene: Yeah. And I feel like we don't, I feel like we don't talk about that enough. Like it's, I mean, I, I know negativity is sexy. I get it. Like. Yeah. But, and then if you're, if you're, you know, with toxic positivity. Listen, I must, this, this, this is just a, this is just a Williams idea.

I can't speak for everybody else. There's no such thing as toxic positivity to me. I mean, if you're, if you're, if you're a nice person, you're, if you're happy, be happy. And there's so many folks that, you know, yeah, I'd be realistic. Yeah, I'm gonna say that, but to sit there and complain about it, if you hated that much.

Life's too short. Do something else. Yeah.

Andrea: You know, it's one of those where I, there have been classes, usually it wasn't like a full semester of kids. It was usually like a class that I would dread, right? Because there would just be a couple of personalities in there that you just didn't mesh with. You had to work so much harder to get them on board, all of that.

But overall, I most days remember leaving and being like, that was exhausting, but I laughed so hard today. Like there was Right. always things and you just don't have that in so many other professions where you get the chance to just like cut up with some kids while you're talking about Shakespeare right or any of that like it's so much fun and it it's a shame that that part of the job has been just pushed down because like you said negativity is sexy and quit teacher quit talk and all of that has kind of come to the forefront but I I I do think that we should maybe talk a little bit more about like the really funny and fun things that we get to do as teachers because it is, it is the best.

Um, so before I let you go, I would love for you to share with everyone where they can find you. Also, your wife is crushing it and doing things as well. So I'd love for you to share about her and all of that. And we'll, we'll put the links as well in the, uh, in the notes at the end, but where can people find you?

Eugene: Okay, well, I'll, I'll, I'll defer to the wife first. My wife is Dr. Jewel Williams, and she has a podcast called Cold Press Conversations, and she talks about health issues and health careers and all of that, so if that's what you're into, you gotta check her out. You can find me on Instagram at E U G W I L L J R.

Uh, you can find me on TikTok at Eugene Williams Jr., um, and you can find me, um, just around. Just Google me. That's right. I'm all over the place. Uh, Eugene Williams Jr. And um, I'm just, you know, Andrea, I want to tell you something. I'm so proud of you. I'm so honored and flattered that an educator of your talents, uh, would think that I had something to do with the type of educator you have become.

I'm being very serious right now. Um, you know, if, if, if that is the case. Uh, I am grateful and I wish you and the kids and Mr. Forkham all the best.

Andrea: Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And you absolutely had a huge hand in The Educator I Am Today. So I appreciate it and I appreciate you coming on. This was so much fun.

Guys, make sure you go check out all of his amazing books and his site and all of that.

Eugene: www. eugenewilliamsjr. com.

Andrea: Okay, perfect. All right. Be right back, guys. Bye.

Welcome back to Those Who Can't Do. I hope that you guys enjoyed my conversation with Mr. Williams. I honestly feel like I could have talked to him for another hour and a half, two hours, because it is just so fun to walk back through those early years of teaching. And I feel, especially in retrospect, so incredibly fortunate to have worked with him and to have gotten those pieces of honesty and, you know, and experience that I got from him, like couched in that, like, as you guys heard and saw like the, the great humor that he has and the perspective he shares.

Um, and I always just felt like even if, you know, I had screwed up, he had my back. Like he said about when my superintendent came and talked to him, um, he was like, Oh, that's not normal for her. She's normally. Great, you know, like, I, I just always appreciated having that, and I know that for so many people that's not always the case with administrators, and I'm really glad he came on so that we could have a chance to talk to an administrator former administrator who knew how to do it and do it really, really well.

And we even got some of his stories from when he was a young teacher, um, just trying to figure it out like the rest of us. So I loved that. And I hope you guys did too. One of the things we always do is I ask you guys what your kids are up to. And this one cracks me up because I have experienced this. Um, somebody said that they are getting tiny little plastic babies.

are being hidden. all over their classroom. And I have had this happen, although when we are recording this, it's not Mardi Gras season, which is usually when tiny babies started to pop up all over my classroom. Like people would order it to bake it into one of the the king's cakes because then you got to like find the baby.

I don't know if you guys are familiar with this but like you order a cake called a king's cake and then there's a baby in it and you like little plastic baby and you cut up the cake and then like you I guess win if you get the baby in your slice of king's cake. I don't know anything about it at all other than that.

So please do not sit there and Judge me for my lack of knowledge. There's probably somebody from Louisiana that is very annoyed at me right now, so I apologize. Uh, but that is always when I would see it, is there would be somebody who had moved from that area and were celebrating, and they had a giant bag of tiny babies, and it would then find its way everywhere in my classroom.

So what, what a gift that keeps giving it is to find those. Um, if you have something insane that has happened in your class lately, I would love for you to share it every Friday. I do a, what are those kids doing on Instagram, but you can also send it to us at Andrea at human dash content. com. Or you can message me about people you would like me to interview.

If there's somebody that you come across online and you're like, wow, I would love to hear a little bit more about their story. Send it to us on our email or you can tag human content pods on Instagram at human content pods. And this is still a new podcast. So thank you guys so much for tuning in early to this podcast for rating and reviewing.

I have been so profoundly honored by the support that I've received for the podcast. Um, when we start something like this and we try and build it up and we know what has gone into it, and we're so excited about it and we, Try and make it the best it can possibly be. And so to have people supporting us is just incredible, honestly.

Um, and I'm honored by the support that I've received from all of the people who left reviews and comments, like the one that I'm going to read to you today. Uh, I don't know how to read this. It's S K O B, Skob, Skob. Scoob 2024 on Apple said, a must watch. Andrea has contagious humor that she brings to everything she does.

She shares the good and crazy things that happen to teachers with such clarity in class. Oh, thank you. Sign up. So I appreciate that. If you want me to give you a shout out on Go ahead and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and you can get your full video episodes, they're up every single, I don't know why I said it like that, every single week on YouTube at Educator Andrea.

Thank you guys so much for listening. I am your host, Andrea Forkham. A very special thank you to our guest, Mr. Eugene Williams. Our executive producers are Andrea Forkham, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke. Our editor is Andrew Sims. Our engineer is Jason Portizzo. Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi. Our recording location is the Indiana State Bi College of Education.

To learn about our Those Who Can't Do's program disclaimer and ethics policy and submission verification and licensing terms, you can go to podcasterandrea. com. Those who can't do is a human content production.

Thank you so much for watching. If you're like me and you're thinking, gosh, I really need more of those who can't do in my life, you can start your binging right now by clicking on that playlist button right over there. New episodes are out every Thursday, so please subscribe and join us each week on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.