Andrea: Welcome to Those Who Can't Do, I am Andrea Forkham, and I am so excited because today I have Luke Hartley, who is also known as the Sailing Songbird, and he's on Instagram and TikTok, and right now he's also floating on a boat, French Polynesia? Is that where you are right now? 

Luke: Yes, that is the country where I am, and then it's the Marquesan archipelago, and the island is called Nuku Hiva.

Andrea: Okay, so, to be so for real, you could have made up every single word in that sentence, and I would 

Luke: not have known. I suppose that's true. Not a whole lot of Americans have heard of French Polynesia. I tell Americans, oh, I'm going to French Polynesia, and they're like, is that, like, where Hawaii is? It's 

Andrea: like, 

Luke: it's about a thousand miles south of Hawaii.

That's the best way I can relate it to Americans. 

Andrea: Yeah, and you, how long were you sailing? And you're doing this by yourself on, I believe, a 27 foot sailboat. Yeah. 

Luke: Yeah, 27 foot monohull sailboat. Um, I, right now I'm alone. I've been alone for a few months. Um, I've had crew in the past and plan to have crew again in the future.

Um, I, yeah. In regards to crew, I prefer kind of just picking up hitchhikers as I meet them along the way, rather than taking randoms on the internet because, I mean, it's a great way to get started sailing, but difficult to vet who's coming into your home and is going to be living in 

Andrea: very close proximity.

Yeah. And very close 

Luke: proximity. 

Andrea: I don't think I said this yet, but one of the reasons we brought Luke on is because last year you were a middle school music teacher. 

Luke: Yeah, it being July right now, I was, last June, yeah, 13 months ago, I was packing up my classroom, getting it ready for the summer, making sure all the instruments, I was, I taught music, um, and so making sure the instruments were gonna be covered so they didn't get all dusty over the summer, and um, 

Andrea: yeah, 

Luke: packing everything up.

Andrea: And I feel like just based off of what we have shared about you so far, I don't even think we need to say where you taught, because it is the most Seattle thing ever, that you were like, you know what, teaching's, I'm just gonna go ahead and just journey my way and sail around the world and do the dang thing.

That is how, how did you get from unpacking my instruments to being in French Polynesia? 

Luke: I suppose. Yeah. I mean, I graduated from college in 2020 and my, my degree was a nine semester degree. So it came with, um, it came with a teaching cert, you know, um, and graduating into the middle of the pandemic. When education was the state that it was, was not the dream come true that I thought it would be.

Receiving my cert, becoming a fully fledged, certificated teacher, I mean, it was the dream for me since I was like 15 years old in high school to become a music teacher, you know. And it took me three full semesters to be able to land a contract. And when you're a new teacher, straight out of school, three semesters feels like an eternity.

Andrea: And so 

Luke: I was picking up long term sub gigs, just subbing every day. Um, And 

Andrea: in 2020, 

Luke: in, in, yeah, so yeah, the spring of 2020 and then all of 2021 2022 school year, um, I was just substituting. And so I worked all of this time on, it's a difficult degree, you know, to become a music educator and then feeling wholly unwanted by the profession right at the gate because I just couldn't get a job.

And, In the midst of the darkness of the pandemic for me and not being able to find work, um, I found this sailing video on YouTube. Um, and it was a boat tour of a boat that had been, that had been cruising for nine years. And from seeing, and I'd never been sailing before, I'd never been on a boat, didn't grow up on the water, no one in my family sails.

But from watching that single YouTube video, I then became I was so fascinated with this lifestyle that I saw people out there living. Um, and I was going and subbing every day and then going home and I realized I was spending all of this time watching videos of sailors sailing and living on the water and living their lives in this kind of precarious situation.

And, I realized after maybe eight months to a year of watching these videos pretty, pretty seriously that I had learned a lot. Um, and Yeah, and then I suppose the long story is that then when I was subbing because it's just at will work, I then flew down to Mexico for two months and started hitchhiking on sailboats because being a new educator after working as a substitute for a year, I had more money than I had ever had in my life.

It's a pittance what subs make, but to me, a new kid, and I'm very fortunate and privileged that I didn't graduate with debt. And so, um, I, yeah, I flew to Mexico and hitchhiked on sailboats. And from those two months of sailing, I then felt like I had enough. I had enough experience to buy my own boat. Um, and I really came to that conclusion after I was home with COVID for a week.

Um, and I kind of got the distance from. My position to realize how unhealthily I was living when I did have my, like my contract and, um, how I was already burned out just as a first year teacher, um, from, from the few, from, from, as a first year certificated teacher, you know, um, and then I went to see a boat that was for sale and bought it the same day.

And that was in March. And then I spent seven months in the yard. I was going to school and teaching all day. And then, um, and then I was going into the, into the yard and working all night. 

Andrea: Just from YouTube videos, that's how you knew what to work on? Like, how did you know what was not working? 

Luke: Yeah. I mean, I, I kind of, I got, Uh, yeah, you watch enough YouTube and you really pick, you really pick stuff up.

Um, I, I don't know, I, I don't, I want to be clear to everyone that like what I'm doing is not super difficult. I'm, I'm not like an extraordinary person, just like actually like selling everything you have, buying a boat and sailing around the world is, it's really not as hard as it looks. 

Andrea: I don't know. It's like, purely because I think on one of your videos you said that you spent 45 days alone on the water.

Luke: 49. 

Andrea: That sounds like my own personal hell. I, like, you are way underselling how hard, even just like the solitude of that. And I, I don't know how many of us have even spent like 24 hours completely alone. 

Luke: Yeah, the craziest thing about that experience was that I lost my internet overboard on day 16. 

Andrea: Oh my god, no.

Luke: Yeah, so I didn't, and then my sat phone stopped working. So I was really without any human contact for over, for a little over a month. So that was difficult. Oh my gosh. 

Andrea: Yeah, and so for navigation and all of that, is everything like computer and all of that, like that was still working? Or were you doing the full Moana hand in the sky thing?

Luke: Um, luckily I knew I, so my sat phone stopped receiving messages, but I was still giving me a lat long and I knew that my target latitude was, I always get it mixed up. Yeah. 140 degrees West and then target longitude was, no, I got it mixed up. Latitude was nine degrees South longitude, 140 degrees West. So as long as I got to that, that spot across the ocean, then I would see an island.

And I did. 

Andrea: Oh my gosh. And is, is that the island that you're at right now? 

Luke: Yeah. I dropped anchor here in this first bay and I haven't picked up. I've been here a month, which typically I'm, I'm much more mobile, but, uh, I found a really good community of, of Polynesians here that I've become very close with.

And I go to shore and hang out with them every day. Um, Daniel, my tattoo artist is the main guy that I'm hanging out with every day. And, um, As a solo sailor, I travel to find community out here in the world, and um, being alone in some beautiful anchorage is great, but it's way better to be with friends.

Andrea: Yeah, I bet. Can you share a little bit about what that community is like? 

Luke: So as sailors, there's really two communities that I'm always running into when I'm traveling in a foreign country. And the first one is the community of sailors. We call ourselves cruisers, like the full time live aboard sailors.

Um, the, the, the cruisers that you run into in the anchorage and that it's his own. culture and community. I mean, if anyone ever has an emergency or needs help, the entire Anchorage will immediately hop into like their dinghy and then like go to assist whatever is necessary. Um, it's really a very beautiful community, actually.

Um, just, I mean, just this morning, um, I had some neighbors that like knew that I was like doing this podcast and it was early for us. And so they dropped by a baguette. in, in the cockpit without me even knowing, you know. 

Andrea: I love that. Um, 

Luke: it's just a very communal, everybody helps everyone, no money is exchanged.

It's very communal. And because Really, we are all we have as we travel the world. Like when you meet another full time sailor, it's immediate family. Um, and you run into each other in anchorages all over, all around the world. My, my neighbor here is, uh, I, I met them in Mexico in a bay right before they crossed the Pacific.

And then we stayed in touch the whole time and now we're neighbors and they're the ones that dropped off the baguette. So, um, but then there's the second community of locals that you meet on whatever island you're on. And it varies widely. region to region, island to island, country to country, as to how accepted cruisers are, and kind of the manners and politeness of the cruisers in that.

in that region. For example, the Caribbean, um, there's places you can go to and there's places that you're not very accepted by the locals because there's a lot of kind of new cruisers in the Caribbean. And, um, the, there are, the manners are not as, as good, you know, the cruisers there, but here they're very welcoming.

I mean, 

Andrea: okay. Absurdly welcoming. So what, what would be considered like bad manners as a cruiser, like that would get the community, 

Luke: uh, an example, like there's some, I, I don't wanna throw any specific boats under the bus here or like what countries those boats are from, but there's uh, an examples of like some cruisers that will take their trash to a beach and burn the trash on the beach.

That's abhorrent behavior. Like that's very bad. Um, being rude to locals going and yeah, being really stingy with money when in situations where they really shouldn't be. I mean, when you're, when you're like coming off a million dollar catamaran and then you're like haggling for like a 20 necklace, like it's not a good look, you know, it's not a good look.

Andrea: That's fair. So what are you supposed to do with your trash? If, if, like, you're not supposed to burn it. 

Luke: Yeah, so, uh, each island has their own kind of, their own, uh, system. But here, there's a dumpster just right next to the dinghy dock, and, um, you can just go and drop off any trash that you want. And then we as cruisers pay a goodwill fee to the mayor's office, um, I think it's like seven bucks a month, that it just helps this, like, this island community.

Um, support themselves and kind of support the extra infrastructure that's required to support us transient cruisers that come along, you know, and so that's a great relationship. So yeah, a lot of cruisers pay that tax. Um, and so we have a good, we have a good reputation here. 

Andrea: That's awesome. So now on, on this island, you mentioned that you actually, you're a tattoo artist.

So you got a tattoo since you've been anchored there. 

Luke: Yeah. Um, I was just walking around town and I get, I, I met a guy that, uh, this is French Polynesia, so everyone speaks French. Um, but I met a guy who was just sweeping the ground outside of a shop and he, I noticed he had good English cause he said hi to me after I said hi to him.

Um, and so then I was like, ah, you have English. Um, and we started chatting and then I learned One of the most respected tattoo artists in the Marquesas, and, um, tattoo, uh, the word for it here is patoutiki, and, um, this is where tattoo comes from, essentially, like, Tahiti is where, I think it was Captain Cook that he landed, and then they heard patoutiki, and then they translated it to tattoo, you know, and so, um, yeah, it's an incredibly sophisticated art form.

Andrea: Yeah, and that's beautiful. 

Luke: Yeah, it's a beautiful tradition. In this tattoo, there's 21 individual symbols. Like, this is the Marquesan cross, um, this is a turtle symbol for me crossing the equator, um, these are four people for my family, um, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of cool stuff in this tattoo, and it's in the shape of a mahi mahi because when I crossed the Pacific, that was 49 days alone, I was, I had like 20 to 40 mahi mahi under, under my boat 24 7.

And so I was spearfishing. Yeah, they can get up to four. I mean, they can get up to like eight foot. Well, maybe not that big, like six foot. But, um, I was, my average fish I was catching was like four foot. Like I catch one fish and it would keep me fed every meal, every day for like three days. So I was catching a fish like every three days and pretty much only eating Mahi.

And so I, I felt A very strong, strong attachment towards that fish. 

Andrea: Yeah. Do you still like it after having eaten it for so many days in a row? 

Luke: Oh, it's like the prize fish out here. You go to any fancy, like, Michelin star restaurant and you'll find, like, mahi on the menu. It is, it is An incredible fish.

Yeah. And, and they're incredibly sustainable to, to fish as well because they, they grow incredibly fast and they spawn very, very frequently. 

Andrea: I feel like now it's going to be one of those things anytime, like when, if and when you decide to end the, uh, the journey of sailing. If you get Mahi Mahi Anywhere, it is going to just be so deeply disappointing, I feel like.

Luke: Yeah, I mean, from, from harvesting a fish and then like 20 minutes later, it's on, like it's in the pan. 

Andrea: Yeah, it's gonna be hard to match, for sure. 

Luke: Yeah. I, on the subject of me leaving sailing though, I don't know if I will, um, because now I have. these big accounts that can sustain me financially. I mean, I don't, I don't need a lot to live at all.

I spearfish for most of my meals and I catch rainwater for my water, you know? Um, and so I, I need very little to survive. Um, but I don't really know if I will go back to land. The, the life I was living on land, I wasn't living very healthily on land. And now, I wake up with the sun, I exercise all day, I eat fish.

Andrea: So you, you mentioned your, you've got part of your tattoo symbolizes your family. How does your family feel about this? And the fact that you, at this point, have no intention of returning to land. How are they? 

Luke: My poor mother. 

Andrea: Yeah, literally when I 

Luke: first saw your 

Andrea: videos, my first thought was his poor mother.

I can't imagine anything more terrifying as a mom than hearing my child say, I'm just gonna take a boat and I'm just gonna sail around the world. Well, where are you going? You know? Around the world. 

Luke: West. West. 

Andrea: Right. I'm going to go that way. And sometimes the Wi Fi will work, sometimes it won't. Who's to say?

Like, and that video you posted, stand up paddleboarding at dusk, so far from your boat. There's, guys, you have to see this video. He posts this video where he's like, I'm just getting some exercise, stand up paddleboarding. If you're wondering where my boat is, there it is. And he holds up Phone so you can see this tiny little dot far, far away, and it is dusk.

The sun is going down and you're just so casually, you're like, yep. So I'm just gonna get some exercise. And my first thought was like his poor mother. 

Luke: It was a beautiful sunset. 

Andrea: Why were you doing that at sunset? What if a squall came? 

Luke: I mean, I had, at that point, to kind of, yeah, the behind the scenes of that video, I had been adrift for 10 days.

I had, I hadn't had wind. I was stuck in the doldrums for two weeks because I don't have an engine. Um, my, my, my engine hasn't worked for many, many months. Um, and yeah, I had been adrift for 10 days. And when you're on the water, you can see the wind coming on as a texture on the water. Very easy. You get an eye for this sorts of things.

Um, and I mean, I would have rejoiced if wind showed up. I wouldn't like 

Andrea: getting real quick on that paddleboard. Yeah. 

Luke: Yeah. I, um, I mean that I, the ocean was so still and the sunset was so beautiful. There's no way I couldn't have gotten on the paddleboard and gone for a bit of a jump. Oh my god, it stressed me out so much.

It seems like you and everyone else. 

Andrea: It did. I read the other comments, I'm like, is it just me that that sounds so terrifying? I think it was also the piece that it was dusk. And so, like, I think we, We imagine like, well, there's no light out there, but obviously you have probably seen the most insane skies, like just the 

Luke: sunsets.

Sunsets on the ocean are incredibly special, especially when you're a solo sailor, because it feels like your own little private show on mother earth. You know, like anytime you're on land and you look at a sunset, you're looking at it with everyone else. But when you're on the most bald part of our planet, And you're looking at a sunset and you realize you're the only person in that time zone.

Um, yeah, you're the only person, you're the only person that's seeing the sunset. Yeah. And that's a special feeling. 

Andrea: So you, you mentioned that you have traveled with folks before. Do you feel differently about some of the memories that you have like that, where, you know, you are the only person who has experienced that and you like, you don't have anyone else that you can like reminisce that other person about that specific event.

Do you feel differently about the events that you've shared with some of the other folks or does it kind of like weigh the same in your mind or is it more special? Cause you know, you are the only one there. Yeah. 

Luke: It's a really good question, and I think that it's really, it's two sides of the same coin, um, when I'm out there having an incredible experience alone, it's very special because I'm alone, but then when I'm with a dear friend, with a crew member that's become a dear friend, um, then, It's really special because then I have this very, very unique experience that me and only one other person on the planet have experienced together.

And that's very special. You know, I, I want to talk about my first crew member, Angus. Um, he sailed with me from Seattle to Cabo, um, Cabo San Lucas, the, the Southern tip of Baja Peninsula. Um, and he's this 19 year old kid from South Africa that reached out during my first call for crew when I was kind of like, Learning how to sail and I was embarking on my circumnavigation.

We hopped on the phone for three minutes and then he bought a plane ticket and he's now like a lifelong brother. Um, and I'm bringing up Angus specifically because Angus was on a different boat in the Gambier archipelago, which is like about 700 miles south of me. Um, and last month he was attacked by a shark and almost lost his life.

Um, yeah, he was, he was swimming on a reef. Um, and a shark came up behind him and bit his forearm. And, and he almost, and he almost died and was airlifted to Tahiti by the French military. And it's an incredible story. And I kind of want to drop his social media right now because he needs all of the support he can get as he goes through trying to rehabilitate his arm and dealing with the potential of not.

really getting his hand back. Like, he has his whole arm. Yeah, he has his hand, but not a lot of function right now. Um, so yeah, you can find him on Instagram at, um, the, uh, the wild escape with, uh, periods of spaces. So the period wild period escape, and he's doing some incredible storytelling on there. Um, and is a lifelong brother of mine.

Andrea: I bet that is insane. What, and what, what an interesting place for, like, for me to join his journey as he's like rebuilding and how, like, That I think is something everyone who's ever been in the ocean fear's happening and 

Luke: Yeah. Yeah. And it happened. 

Andrea: Yeah. And then, and then it happened. And I just have a gut instinct that he's probably gonna go back on the water as soon as he's probably better.

Right. Is that his plan? He's, 

Luke: he's one of the most athletic people I've ever met. Um, he, he, yeah, he is. He. He was practicing his freediving, and I think his, his record for freediving is like 60 meters. It's something like crazy. I mean, just hundreds of feet. Yeah, it's, I, I, you can fact check me about how deep it actually is, but like, he's got a crazy, he's a, he's a very talented diver, very talented surfer, spearfisher, just mariner.

All around. 

Andrea: And that is, that is incredible. Guys, like, I, I recently, recently, that's so long. I recently was in Jamaica and we did some snorkeling and there was just this, I don't think it was any deeper than maybe 20 feet. And so, I really wanted to see if I could touch the bottom and I just barely made it.

And that to me, like was terrifying to look up and see 20 feet ahead of me. I, and to be doing that without a tank or anything like that. That's incredible. That is really cool. And you said it's the dot great dot escape. Yeah, The Great Escape. Okay. Awesome. That is really cool. And I completely interrupted you.

I asked about your family and then I talked about how terrifying it would be for me as a mom. 

Luke: We're just talking, chatting about my poor mother. Oh, right. Both, both my parents are, are educators. Um, they work in higher education. And so when I told them like, Hey guys, you know, this like career that I worked so hard to build and now I've started it.

I am, I'm, I'm, I'm, going to step away from that and sail around the world. Like, that was the goal from the get go, to sail around the world on, on my own tiny little boat. Um, I never built up to that dream. It was always the dream from the get go. Um, and they were at first incredibly apprehensive as any 

Andrea: good 

Luke: parent might, you know, 

Andrea: and 

Luke: then, you know, I think once they saw me putting in the many long hours of hard work in the yard during those seven months to refit the sailboat, they then realized that, oh, this is kind of a serious thing for him.

Um, and then when I made it to Mexico, I think that then they were like, okay, he's, he's made it. He's okay. Now it's super real. You know? 

Andrea: Geez. Now, have they, either of them joined you for any portion of a journey or joined you on the boat? 

Luke: Yeah, when they were going on a short little, very special vacation in Mazatlan, Mexico.

And I actually, I was racing to Mexico to make it to Mazatlan to be able to see them. And so when I made it to Mazatlan, it was the first time I made it to the mainland of Mexico. That was a huge goal for me to make it to the mainland of Mexico and seeing them standing on the breakwater. Like, on the harbor edge, as I then sailed into the harbor to then see them, was one of the most special feelings I've had in my life.

Andrea: I bet. In my mind, you just, it, like, the only image I have in my mind is Captain Jack Sparrow, except for he's sailing in on the boat that's, like, sinking and just stepping off the dock. But honestly, it's a pretty, 

Luke: yeah, I mean, it's a, it's, there's more similarities than you'd think on a small boat. 

Andrea: I believe it.

That is so cool. So now they've kind of, been okay with it and okay ish with it that you're, you're doing the things? 

Luke: I think that human beings can get used to anything, um, for, for good or for bad. Um, I got used to being alone on my 49 days at sea and they got used to me being alone, uh, on, on my 49 days, you know.

Um, and I've now spent enough time offshore to where it's not as big a deal for 

Andrea: as 

Luke: it was in the beginning. 

Andrea: Yeah, I think that the initial, I think, is what would be most terrifying, is just like, the problems that you don't know how to solve because you don't know that those are the things you will have to solve, like, those probably start becoming less as the longer you've been on the water.

Do you still have moments where you're just like, huh? I have no idea how to fix this one. 

Luke: I want to, yeah, I want to relate this directly to teaching. It is the same thing. Your first year of teaching is the exact same as your first year of sailing. The emergencies feel as large. The, the, the stakes feel as high.

Um, it's, it's exactly the same. And even when you're A sailor there, like even when you're a sailor with 20 years under your belt or your teacher with 20 years.

Andrea: All right. So one of the things about Luke being in the middle of the ocean is that his Wi Fi is sometimes cut out, which is what just happened. Um, but that is okay because we needed to take a break anyways. So we are going to take a very quick break and we will be right back.

Luke: Sorry, Andrea. I'll be right there.

I'm going over to my neighbor's boat to get better Wi Fi.

Andrea: All right. And we are back. To those who can't do, uh, Luke is now on a different boat. Thank you for being willing and flexible to switch boats. That is Happy to help. 

Luke: Yeah. Leveraging my, uh, the amazing community out here of sailors. 

Andrea: Right, exactly. So I believe before we, we took our unceremonious break that the question was or the discussion was something about how the first year of sailing is a lot like first year teaching.

Luke: Yeah. You had asked me if it gets easier after you spend a lot of a lot of time out here. I, yeah, I just needed to draw the parallel between the first year of teaching and the first year of sailing is that the stakes feel just as high. the, um, the difficulties seem just as, just as extreme. The learning curve is just as steep.

Um, and so I think that I was actually really lucky to be going through my first year of teaching and then go straight into my first year of sailing because I was used to not being the expert in the room. You know, I was used to, I mean, I mean, when it's just with me students, yeah, I'm the expert in the room, but, um, and when I'm just out there alone sailing, I'm the expert in the room, you know, but, um, There's, there's so much to learn and you have to learn everything so quickly, um, that it was kind of like a second first year of teaching, except I was, instead of trying to corral 30 middle schoolers to do something they did not want to do, it was, uh, sailing for, uh, Six days and six nights through 30 foot seas and 30 knot winds.

Andrea: 30 foot seas? Okay, when you say 30 foot seas, that's like, okay, the waves are 30 feet up? 

Luke: Yeah, like the swell. So my passage, sailing south from Seattle, um, I sailed from the Columbia River in like the Oregon Washington border to, uh, to San Francisco. And that was a seven day passage. And the first six days of that, um, there was like a storm up in Alaska that was throwing huge swell down the, like, down the coast because I, I left in the off season where the Pacific Ocean is incredibly inhospitable.

And that was the best weather window we had, but it was straight up just the best weather window we had to get South. Um, and so, yeah, it was 30 foot seas for, for six days. Um, straight, like day and night. 

Andrea: And you weren't alone at that point. You had somebody else with you? No, I had 

Luke: Angus. I had Angus with me, my first crew member with me, which was great.

There's not really much you can do in conditions like that. You just let my, I have a self steering wind vane. It's this all mechanical, no electric wind vane that steers the boat and keeps it on course when the sails are trimmed to the wind. Um, And once the boat's sailing itself, you kind of just hunker down in your bunk and you try to survive.

We went really far offshore. We were 150 miles offshore and there's nothing out there except Dead heads, which are floating logs beneath the surface and will sink your boat if you hit them. And that's like the scariest part of it all, other than the potential of hitting sleeping sperm whales as well, that are like, that hang out.

Uh, yeah. 

Andrea: You said that very casually, as if this is a concern we all can, we all know. 

Luke: All sailors, that's like a big concern that we all know. Yeah. Um, yeah, there's Hitting a sleeping 

Andrea: sperm whale. 

Luke: Yeah, most boats sink. If a boat's going to sink, it's probably because it hit a, it hit a whale that was sleeping under the surface.

Um, they're really good at staying out of your way when they're, when you're awake, uh, when they're awake. But if they're asleep, then they, they, um, then you can hit them. Yeah, I met a Danish boat when I just got in and they, This was their second attempt at crossing the Pacific, first successful attempt, because they, two whales, and then sank.

Andrea: Oh, two, they hit two whales? 

Luke: Yeah, they hit one whale and then they like, it like, they like skipped over the first whale and then hit the second whale. 

Andrea: So the whales were just cuddling for their nap. Yeah, 

Luke: yeah. 

Andrea: Oh. 

Luke: Okay. Mom and baby. Kind of a thing. 

Andrea: Aww. 

Luke: Yeah. Were the whales okay? 

Andrea: I'm sure they probably didn't care as much about the whales.

Luke: Yeah. They don't really care if you hit them with the boat. They're so big. They're so big. 

Andrea: I was, I was gonna say, I have no, like, real perception. I know sperm whales are incredibly big, like, how, how many meters are they? I 

Luke: don't know. I mean, it's a better question for Google. Um, I almost hit a whale on my Pacific passage.

Um, and it was gigantic. Um, I, I was, I was sailing like forward, right? And then it was off my port bow quarter and it was like crossing my path. And so I immediately ran up to the bow and just started screeching like a banshee so that they'd hear me, you know, cause I don't have an engine and the sails are pretty quiet.

So I just started screaming at the top of my lungs. And then luckily it heard me and then came like behind the back of my boat and then swam parallel with me for like three breaths and that thing was huge. It was not a humpback. It was maybe a blue whale. I mean, I don't know. I was, it's blowhole is a large enough for me to jump inside and whale breath, whale breath is the most rancid smell you'll ever smell in your entire life.

If you thought that you'd smelled a bad smell, whale breath. 

Andrea: Is, is the worst? Like right out of the blowhole? It's, 

Luke: yeah, it's, it's infernal how, how terrible it smells. 

Andrea: So is that what you would say is the worst smell you've come across in your journeys so far? Or is there one that's even worse? 

Luke: There's a pretty nasty one.

When I, when I refit, when I refit the boat, I had to change the head. Uh, which is the toilet on board. Yeah. And there was a black, there was a black water tank that was full of the previous owner's waste. It's bad enough that it's yours. Yeah. And I, um, had to empty it by hand because I was in the yard. And so luckily there's like an observation port on top.

So it was just with the yogurt container. Trying to be just lighting as much incense around the boat as I can. 

Andrea: That was, that 

Luke: was rough. 

Andrea: That is incredibly felt, yeah. Well at least, at least whales So it's 

Luke: whale breath or black water tank takes the cake. 

Andrea: Okay. Those are pretty intense. As far as animal encounters that you've had, is that maybe the craziest animal encounter that you've had?

Luke: I saw a big manta ray on the way over to this boat. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Just like a couple minutes ago. Yeah, there's a lot of manta rays in this, in this bay. Um, other cool, yeah, I mean, the, the, the whales, um, I had in, in Puerto Vallarta, um, I had a baby whale breaching maybe 20 feet, like, off the boat, um, when I was at anchor.

And so I'm just at anchor, hanging out, and then there's just, I'm surrounded by whales. Other really cool animal encounters, um, the hull of the boat acts pretty much as a big sounding board. And so it's very easy to hear whale song, very easy to hear dolphins when they're next to the boat. And so yeah, falling asleep to whale song is a special, a special experience.

Andrea: Yeah, I imagine so. That is so incredibly cool. So one of the things, but so guys, I have to be so for real with you. I asked him to bring a topic on and we have not gotten to talk about the topic like at all because I have just so I'm so fascinated by all of the things that Luke is doing, but we are in fact going to talk now.

About the topic that you, that you had brought, which was, um, looking at teacher burnout and the realities of implications for teachers as they leave the insular world of teaching. And, um, there was a video that you sent that was basically, I can't remember who put it out, but it was basically a teacher talking about their experience as an educator and feeling like it's on PBS.

PBS 

Luke: NewsHour. 

Andrea: Yes. And talking about what it was like. Leaving the world of, or basically making the choice to leave the world of teaching after her whole life, which sounds very similar to what you had shared that like, you really wanted to be an educator and you were really excited about it. And then now you, it doesn't sound like from what you've said so far, you have any intention of returning to the classroom.

Luke: And, and, uh, a big part of that reality breaks my heart. Like it breaks my heart that I've come to the conclusion that I'll likely not be returning to the classroom. One of the main reasons why I brought that video to you was because of something she articulates, and that she says that her father was a high school guidance counselor, and she grew up watching him live this incredibly fulfilling life.

He supported a family of like five on that single income, and It just looked like a dream life. And that is what my perception of teaching was as well. That this is a, uh, a quality career, a fulfilling life. Um, it's, it's one that you can support a family on. And, um, when I, when I got, when I got to education, I mean to, to education's credit, it was the middle of the pandemic.

Um, mm-hmm. . And I mean, yeah, my first, my first full year of certificated teaching, my classroom didn't have any windows in it. And so I was getting to school in the dark and leaving in the dark, working crazy long hours. And the whole year while I was working, the district was going through huge budget cuts and the administration at my school had made the decision to downsize the music program.

So I was told, it's like we ran the numbers and I was told that I was going to be the only music teacher at that school next year and we ran the numbers and that would have made the concert band 130 students in one room, which like violates fire code and there's a whole other host of problems with that.

Um, and so it just, it, from all of the stressors of fighting for a program that's getting cut, um, dealing, yeah, teaching the central district of Seattle comes with its own challenges. Um, 

Andrea: yeah. 

Luke: It was, uh, yeah, not getting a single dime from the district to support the really flourishing music education programs that that school and district had.

Um, yeah, it was, there was a lot of stressors. And as a first year teacher, it became so clear to me that I, I, I, I, So to my credit, I found, I experienced a lot of successes. This is how I describe it. I experienced a lot of successes during my first year of teaching. I led and coordinated um, seven field trips.

I was the chair of my department. I was on the building leadership team, the instructional council. I was on all these extra things. Um, and I experienced a lot of successes and it was all to the detriment of my own health. Um, and I think that a lot of teachers can resonate with that. Um, and I'm very fortunate and grateful that I had this other budding passion of sailing that was offered to me by the YouTube algorithm.

Andrea: Right. Um, 

Luke: and I actually, I didn't have any debt, you know, I didn't, I, I, like not having any debt and it's huge, you know, um, didn't have a mortgage, stuff like that. And so it was very easy for me to cut ties with land and I saved up like six months salary. Well, no, I didn't even, I, I spent six months salary on the boat and then the full refit.

And then a little bit, I mean, I just ate bread and eggs my whole first year of teaching, um, in order to, um, like survive, like in order to fund the boat, you know? 

Andrea: Yeah. Um, 

Luke: yeah. And six months salary was enough to buy the boat. And then I had a little bit like extra saved. And then I was hitting food banks all the way down the coast of the U S just trying to save on money, like, like save on food costs 

Andrea: to a 

Luke: point where then I could start spearfishing.

Andrea: Okay, and is that primarily where you get most of your food, other than the baguettes from lovely neighbors at Dock? 

Luke: Yeah, it's, when I was in Mexico, I was spearfishing every single day, and two of my three daily meals were, um were, uh, were, yeah, foraged by me. I was like foraging coconuts, um, from land and some fruits and then spearfishing.

Um, and then eggs in Mexico are super cheap, so I ate a lot of eggs. 

Andrea: Interesting. Is there any food that you really, really miss? 

Luke: I think, I mean just like, like Little Caesar's, like I, so it's so cringy to say Little up all 

Andrea: the pizza. 

Luke: I know, I know. well, little Caesar's is like a very like, emotional, uh, experience, nosal experience for me because there, it's because there was a little Caesar's right next to the yard where I was doing refitting the boat.

And so I was doing this really hard work for many, many hours. Okay. And then like regaining all those calories from a single little, little Caesar peak stuff. 

Andrea: Yeah, that's how I feel about Pizza Hut, just because of like the bookish program as a kid. It was like a hard earned personal pan pizza from reading books.

Luke: And being raised on the American diet, the standard American diet, which we're in education, we love acronyms, SAD, Standard American Diet. Then when I'm out here and I'm just like eating fish and it's like super healthy, there comes a point where like, Yeah, you just crave a pizza. And there was a Little Caesars in La Paz, Mexico.

Oh, sweet baby Jesus. It was so good. It was so good. 

Andrea: That's so funny. I don't think I mean, it 

Luke: makes it very special when you do come across a treat and a pleasure like that, you know? 

Andrea: Yeah. I get that. It was so fascinating to me because my husband and I went to Jamaica this summer. And when we had last been, it was like seven years ago.

And we went to Ocho Rios and we, we loved it. And the last time we were there, there was like no American restaurants there really at all. Like I, we didn't see any, any chain stores at all the last time. And this time we came and there was a KFC, there's two KFCs now. In that area. And I was like, really? And the locals were like, no, you don't understand.

This is so good. It's different than American KFCs. And they, I don't know what, I think they maybe put like jerk seasoning on it or something like that. So like, apparently if you, you know, if you do end up at Ocho Rios in Jamaica, at some point, the KFC is a must hit according to the locals who are very used to like the Jamaican jerk, which is fantastic.

Like 

Luke: amazing. It'll be the perfect icing on the cake for when I finish my circumnavigation, or when I'm coming to the end of my circumnavigation, you know? 

Andrea: Yeah, so you start in Seattle and then that's where your home port is gonna be, and then you're just gonna be like, you know what, let's do it again.

Luke: Honestly, kinda, yeah. I mean, um, I don't think that I'll sail back up to Seattle because it's really difficult to get up there because of macro ocean currents and winds that I don't need to go into now. But, um, yeah, I, the, the easternmost port that I went to in Mexico was Puerto Vallarta. So I'm kind of, after I cross that, cross that longitude, then Then I'll say my, I've circumnavigated, you know, after I finish, after I go all the way around the world, um, because I'm able to kind of, it's financially viable for me to just kind of do this full time because of my Instagram and TikTok.

Um, I, I reckon I'll just, yeah, go again, you know, just, just keep going, you know, um, there's, I, I live really, it's a really healthy lifestyle for me, and I'm not sure that I would live healthily. If there's anything I got out of the pandemic, it's that, like, prioritizing your health is important. Is kind of a ne a necessity.

Andrea: Yeah. Do you think that, you know, I, I think about that as well, um, having taught through the pandemic and, um, you know, I started teaching in 2013 and so I, and I taught through the pandemic and then I. had, um, my second child in April of 2020. And so I had a newborn real fresh into the pandemic when no one really knew what was going on.

And so I was, you know, zoom teaching while breastfeeding with the camera off and to a bunch of black boxes. Cause I don't know about what you experienced, but a lot of times cameras wouldn't be turned on and we were told don't pressure them because we don't want. to like show inequalities at home or distractions or whatever.

And so we were trying our best, um, just to kind of do whatever we could for, for these kids. And I don't know, I think about that. And I think about how, how many hours I got back in my day during the pandemic when I wasn't driving to and from work and how like that, plus the constant fear of getting COVID, That did kind of reprioritize health in a way that I, I wasn't really expecting where I like started to, I was like one of the, the sourdough people.

Like I started baking actual bread from flour, which I'd never even thought about doing before in my life. And, but we had, you know, because I was zooming from home, we didn't have to go into the, the school, I felt like I had more hours in my day. We were spending more time as a family. Um, and. You know, for teachers who taught pre pandemic, like I, I hate that you didn't have the experience of, of teaching before the pandemic because I had several student teachers who came in onto the Zoom classes to do their student teaching.

And I just remember thinking like, this is the worst way to start. Yeah. Like that, that's the worst way to start your teaching experience. I 

Luke: did my student teaching online. It was all black boxes. I was teaching high school choir and choir on Zoom. doesn't work. 

Andrea: That's so painful. Yeah. I 

Luke: mean, yeah, everyone, everyone has to be muted.

And then I'm being like, okay, guys, sing with me. Zing, zing, zong, zing, zing, zong. And I can sometimes see mouths moving from like the three kids with their box on, but everyone else is just hanging out and being sad, you know? 

Andrea: Yeah. Unfortunately, I do, I do know very, very well, which is one of the reasons why, you know, I'm, I'm now a professor at Indiana State working with future teachers, trying to prep them for the classroom.

And it's so hard for me to explain to a lot of colleagues about what it was really like to teach during the pandemic and what it was like for us to talk to little black boxes and then maybe have one or two outgoing kids that would actually turn their cameras on and. And make eye contact. And a lot of times that had less to do with the personality of the kid and more to do with what their home life looked like, um, and what the situation was for them.

I mean, you, Like, you, you took that experience and now you're, you know, I think doing something so cool and also really cool for the kids that you worked with, where they can see that as an option. Like, I, I don't, I don't think that most people would, uh, would take an option like what you're doing and be like, oh yes, I shall, I shall get a boat and I shall sail.

But realistically, like, yes, you could, right? Like, you don't have to go to a university. You could, in fact, like, get a boat and learn how to surface. Let's just 

Luke: see. You could just go to C. Like, oh, this first year of teaching is really difficult. What if I went to C? 

Andrea: But like, you did and are, and it's, and it's incredible.

And I think because you are, you are sharing these experiences on Instagram and on TikTok, I think it's also really encouraging for educators to think about like, okay, outside the world of teaching, like, cause for a lot of us, myself included, literally my name on Instagram. Instagram is educator Andrea.

Like so much of our identity is tied up in that, right? Like who you are and live, breathe, eat, like caring for your students. 

Luke: It's so difficult. And I think, yeah, there's so many things to say right now. Like the hardest thing about Teaching in the pandemic is not like, I think for that, that people struggle when they look in as what we were doing, it's like, oh, you just sit at home all day and you just like talk to black boxes.

That looks way easier than what you were doing. The hardest part was that the care for the students was still there, even more so because we knew our students were struggling. And, um, and then not actually being able to serve the students was the hard part. And then for teachers that are seeing what I'm doing and then realizing, oh.

This looks like a, perhaps a better, I speak so carefully about this because I don't want to trigger an exodus of educators from teaching, you know, like I, I, I don't believe that all teachers should quit, like, at all, like, but, but, from my experience, I felt like Seattle Public Schools had created such a comfortable prison for me, you know, it's good healthcare, good retirement, in Seattle Public Schools, good pay, like I can complain till the cows come home about the district, but we were compensated very well.

And, uh, like it just, they make it, to me, it felt like a very comfortable prison. And I mean, yeah, I didn't have any windows in my classroom. It was, it was, it was, It was dark. It was really dark. Um, and it makes it really difficult to, to be brave. And there is, it's like, there's a borderline stigma against educators leaving the classroom.

It's like, how, how did, cause like our, our profession is so noble. It's such a, an honorable profession. And to even think about leaving and then to speak that out into the world and say, Oh, I'm thinking about leaving education. It is a collective gasp, 

Andrea: right? There's 

Luke: a collective gasp. It can feel like a betrayal.

It can feel like a betrayal to your students. It can feel like a betrayal to your, your allies, your, your, your, your colleagues. It feels like a betrayal sometimes to your family, if they're relying on that income. Um, it's, It is such an emotionally charged profession, such an emotionally charged decision. I mean, I remember the exact, it was a singular moment where I realized that I was leaving education for the time being.

And I mean, and I was sitting on a beach when I was I was diagnosed with COVID. I didn't really have any symptoms, but I couldn't go to school because I was, I tested positive. And the only way, and I was sitting on a beach in Seattle, and I broke down into a huge amount of tears for, and I just wept and wept and wept for hours, sitting on this beach, looking at the water.

realizing that everything was different. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Luke: After I, after I had that experience and it took a week of being removed from the environment, a week of being away from the students, a week from being away from the colleagues, a week from being away from the culture for me to realize how unhappy I was, how unhealthy I was and unhealthy, unhealthy, primarily how unhealthy I was.

And that if I wanted to have any, just any sort of quality of life that I needed to make a change, needed to make a change fast and. Yeah, I set sail like seven months after that decision. 

Andrea: That's incredible. Yeah. And I think that you bring up a good point because you pointed out that you had, you know, great, you know, the income was good and all that.

And I think that there's a real misconception when people say, like, we need to fund education and they think that all we're saying is pay teachers more. And there are places that should, but I think that there's a huge misconception that we're not just saying that, we're saying, A hundred and forty kids in one choir class or one orchestra or whatever, like, that's not acceptable.

One thirty. Like, we can't do that. 

Luke: No, no, I mean, no. At all. And I mean, and I was teaching in, yeah, Washington Middle School, which is a really, it's Title I, very underserved, like, population. It has one of the highest rates of students of color in the district, historically underserved. Um, it's the oldest building in Seattle Public Schools, which is like 113 schools, and, and we didn't get a dime from the district for, for funding the program.

So everything, all of our instruments, all of the lessons, all of festival fees, all field trip fees, all uniforms, uh, was all funded by parents. 

Andrea: Which, in a district like that in particular, puts an undue burden on the families that, that are in that community. And I think that, like, that is the thing that I try and communicate to people when I'm like, no, teachers, when, when teachers are asking for funding, yes, like, the income is, is a piece of that because we don't want that.

To be stressing about having to work a second job in addition to teaching and all of that. But also, we want to have resources for our students to be successful and our class sizes to be manageable. Like, the, one of the main things that I've seen in so many studies is one of the greatest predictor of student academic success is having manageable class sizes.

And 

yeah. 

I, I taught at a district in San Diego County where I had like 42, 43 kids in a freshman English class. Like, do we, do we really think that I'm going to be assigning five page research papers that could potentially prepare them if they wanted to go to college to write college papers? That'd be great.

I can't, I don't have enough hours and I refuse to do the freedom writers thing where I destroy my personal life so that one group of, of students can be successful. And I feel like there, there was. Especially, I'd say, like, ten years ago, when I first started teaching, very much a pressure that, like, if you're unwilling to sacrifice your personal relationships, then you're not teaching hard enough.

And it's And that's just such a toxic, horrible thing to expect of any profession. But like you said, there's so much pressure on teachers not to leave. And if you do leave, then it's looked down upon in a way that like no other profession that I can think of does that, where it's like, wow, you're not being an electrician anymore?

Do you not love wires still? Like what? I know, I know. 

Luke: It's an industrial level of gaslighting. It's an industrial, and it's, it's a sophisticated industry of gaslighting of, of, of educators. And, and I, yeah, for everyone listening, like, I'm someone that was so unhappy with education, I left, like, this is not the only opinion.

Like, it's just, it's just mine. Um, I'm not saying, yeah, like quit your job and leave, but, um. Please, 

Andrea: please guys, don't. Like, we do need teachers. Please don't. 

Luke: Like, please don't. We really need you guys. And every time I meet a teacher or I have so many teachers that reach out to me over Instagram and I'm always just like, thank you for what you do.

I'm sorry that I couldn't. You know, because I still have that guilt. I still have that guilt. Um, and I get a lot of messages from my past students, which mean the world to me. And those, when they're, when they say they're proud of me and they see what I'm doing, they, that helps dispel some guilt, but there's always guilt that will be there, you know?

Andrea: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think Also there, each person has to make the choice of what's going to be right for them with working in education. You know, like I, I felt a lot of that same tension that, that you were feeling. And so then I decided to, you know, go a university route. And so I'm trying to like be the person who has the letters after their name, that then maybe I can go talk to the fancy pants legislatures and they might actually listen to me.

Cause for some reason they don't actually listen to the teachers. You have to be at a university for sometimes for them to listen. And yeah, 

Luke: absolutely. 

Andrea: I feel like it's, it's very different for, for each person, but I think as. And, you know, as a parent now of school aged kids, it's always my priority to make sure that I am supporting my kids teachers in whatever way I can.

And a lot of times people, I think, think like, Oh, like if you're not teaching, there's nothing you can do to help. 

Luke: Like with what you said about class sizes at my school, the class sizes We're so large that, um, substitutes kind of refuse to teach at that school. And so I all, because there weren't any substitutes, I, I maybe got 10% of my prep periods in the year.

Um, every single one of my prep periods, I was going to other classes to cover, like, to cover the, like, the classes that were empty. And that's just like another example of the stresses on teachers when, when, like the, the ripple effects. from, from underfunded, um, systems. It, it affects every aspect. And then, yeah, you end up like breaking contract and stuff like that just out of a necessity to care for the kids.

And because educators have such big hearts, they will sometimes, yeah, throw themselves under the bus to just like, Do the necessary child care of like, there's 30 unattended 12 year olds in this room and things are not going to be very good. Yeah, it's not going to be a very good situation in three minutes.

And so, yeah, you need to get in the room and restore order. Yeah. 100%. It's a crazy job. 

Andrea: It is. Um, so one of the things I usually do on the podcast when school is in session is on Fridays, I ask my followers on Instagram to share some of the crazy things that their students are doing. Um, but because it is summer right now, I was hoping, and I'm totally putting you on the spot.

Is there something you remember that one of your students did that was just It stands out to you as like so out of pocket or just so wild of like, no other profession would have something quite like this, especially since you did music. I feel like there's probably. 

Luke: Yeah, I, oh man. 

Andrea: The heavy sigh. 

Luke: Yeah, the heavy sigh.

I was really, so I had three orchestras and one choir. Um, and I was really lucky in that all of the kids who were in orchestra pretty much wanted to be there and those classes kind of ran themselves. So much to the point where like, my beginning orchestra, I had, there was a fire to put out somewhere in the building and so I wasn't able to make it to class on time.

And when I got to the room, they had all like set up. And just started warming up on their own and like running through the warmups. And it was just like, so sweet to see. But in my choir, in my choir, um, that was kind of where they put everyone that needed a music elective. And there was one student named Joel, let's call him Joel.

Andrea: Okay. 

Luke: Um, and Joel was a student that was just in free fall. Um, he was leaving his shoes around the building, just not, didn't have a backpack, didn't have anything, was kind of just at school to create as much chaos as possible in order to cope with the difficulties that, the extreme difficulties he was experiencing at home.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Luke: Um, and I had a couch in my room because I want. My room to be a welcoming place, a homey place for students, and he would always post up on the couch Which which was fine, but he I would choir for middle school is When you get a bunch of kids in a room and then you ask them to be the most vulnerable that they've ever been in their life.

They're like, okay kids, sing. And they're like, no. And you're like, touche. And you have to do, yeah. And it, and I felt like, uh, something. Crossed between a monkey and a clown and it's like just a circus performer up there trying to elicit some sound from these children. 

Andrea: Um, 

Luke: cause that was my job. Uh, which I can't believe that was my job.

Um, and, and, and, and, and Joel, he had the habit of just screaming at random intervals throughout warmups and throughout the class where he would just yell very loudly about anything. And it's, it made it very difficult. And I mean, this kid needed. Uber supports, just a crazy amount of supports. Um, and I, I learned that this kid really liked rap music and this was very early in their year.

Um, and so I, in order to try to build a relationship with this kid that's in freefall and doesn't have any trusted adults in the building, um, I was giving up my prep period every day to tutor him in sound production and music design, um, to teach him how to write beats, to teach him how to produce beats, um, to teach him how to, I was working with his English teacher to see if we could fit some poetry in, like a poetry unit in, to help him build lyrics, um, and to describe his experiences, um, through music.

Um, and In return, like he had to go to math class and like, if he didn't go to math, then he couldn't, he couldn't tutor with me. And, um, it worked for like a few weeks and then it, it fell through, you know, um, which was, it was just a shame, but I still think about Joel all the time and wonder if he's okay.

Cause he ended up moving schools pretty quickly. 

Andrea: Yeah. I'm sure he remembers that though. And I guarantee you that stands out to him, like that connection. And going through all that extra effort too is, is really cool for, for, cause you, it, it would be nice to say we only ever have like the one Joel, right?

But usually we have like 10 Joels that we see over the course of our day. Um, 

Luke: Yeah, he, he was just the ringleader of the Joels. 

Andrea: Right, right. That makes sense. Okay, before I let you go, can you please share, I usually say where people can find you, but that feels like a more complicated question online where people can find you and follow your journeys.

Luke: Absolutely. Um, so yeah, I buy like two primary platforms right now are Instagram and TikTok. They're both the same username. It's sailing underscore songbird. On my Instagram bio, I keep a little pin in my bio as to where I currently am or like if I'm at Anchor or if I've picked up Anchor and I'm in transit and so I usually keep that pretty updated so you can check out whatever little island I'm on in my Instagram bio.

Andrea: That's awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much, Luke. This was so fun and so fascinating. I appreciate you taking the time. 

Luke: Absolutely. It was such a pleasure. It was a privilege for me to be able to talk about education again, um, because I miss it. I really miss education, and it's been 13 months since I've been in a classroom and I, and yeah, I miss it a lot.

And so, yeah, it was great to, to chat with another educator and to talk shop. 

Andrea: Awesome. Well, I appreciate it. All right, guys, we will be right back.

Welcome back to Those Who Can't Do. I hope that you guys enjoyed my conversation with Luke. I feel like there were so many other questions I could have and wanted to ask, but this very quickly could have turned into like a three or four hour episode because I am just so fascinated by the journey that Luke is on.

Um, he shared with you guys what his contact information is online so you can follow all of his journeys. Um, and like I said, there is, I hope you all go and find the video where he is paddleboarding in the ocean and he's like, Oh, you know, I'm in the doldrums. And so there was no wind. It looks so terrifying though.

Like I want, I want you guys to go find that video just so you can fully envision the just living nightmare for me. And he's like, delighted by it, but it sounds terrifying to me to be that far away from my, you know, only way of survival. And he's just like out there paddle boarding and having living his best life.

And I love that for him. Um, so definitely go find him on Instagram and Tik TOK. Uh, even though he is out in the middle, of the ocean quite often. Um, he was able to make time and jump on with us and he's able to post, um, cause he has something called like Skylink or Starlink. I can't remember which one it is.

Is the Skylink the one from, from one of those sci fi movies? I don't know. It sounded like a sci fi thing, but basically it allows him to get internet anywhere. So he updates pretty regularly. If you have thoughts about what we talked about today, or you have a suggestion on someone you would like to have come on the podcast, you can hit us up at andrea at human dash content.

com or on Instagram or TikTok at educator Andrea, or you can contact my human content podcast family at human content pods. And thank you to all of the wonderful listeners who are leaving feedback and reviews. That is how people tend to find our podcasts. That's how things end up charting and all of that.

So a very special thank you to the pro teacher coach who said, truly enjoyable. I followed Andrea on Instagram for about a year. Her podcast reflects that vibe, which is a breath of fresh air. Keep it coming. Thank you so much. Pro teacher coach. I appreciate you. If you want to check out the full video episodes, uh, every week on YouTube.

You can find them at Educator Andrea. Thank you guys so much for listening. I am your host, Andrea Forkham, and a very special thank you to our co host, our guest co host today, Luke Hartley, who is also known as the Sailing Songbird. Um, which by the way, you guys didn't get to hear him sing today, but the reason he's called the Sailing Songbird is because he is an opera singer as well.

We didn't even get to that. Um, but he does sing on his social, so go check that out. Our executive producers are Andrea Forkham, Aaron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke. Our editor is Andrew Sims. Our engineer is Jason Portizzo. Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi, and our recording location is Indiana State by College of Education.

To learn more about our Those Who Can't Do's program disclaimer and ethics policy and submission verification and licensing terms, you can go to podcasterandrea. com. Those who can't do is a human content production.

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